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collint0101 said:

Adoption is one thing but it says nothing about our overburdened foster care system. Aside from that I find it ironic that the pro life crowd is mostly made up of republicans that actively stand against programs such as free and reduced lunch, better and more efficient public education spending, government backed daycare, universal healthcare, more expansive paternity leave for both mothers and fathers ect that would actually benefit these children. The inability to properly care for a child is one of the biggest reasons people want an abortion in the first place. 

Opposing homocide has nothing to do with any of those programs.  In fact, it puts you in a terrible moral position where you say we must cull the herd if we don't provide XYZ programs.



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jason1637 said:
collint0101 said:

Adoption is one thing but it says nothing about our overburdened foster care system. Aside from that I find it ironic that the pro life crowd is mostly made up of republicans that actively stand against programs such as free and reduced lunch, better and more efficient public education spending, government backed daycare, universal healthcare, more expansive paternity leave for both mothers and fathers ect that would actually benefit these children. The inability to properly care for a child is one of the biggest reasons people want an abortion in the first place. 

Well there are probably people who are pro life that are against the things you mentioned but from my experience most people who are pro life just think that life is sacred period.

And that's part of the problem. They'll do everything to make sure that baby is born but once it's out they're on their own. Our foster care to prison pipeline is ridiculous but I don't see many pro lifers trying to do anything to improve the actual lives of these children. They're not pro life they're pro birth because birth is sacred but more often than not these people are voting against programs that would positively impact the lives of unaborted children. 



NightlyPoe said:
collint0101 said:

Adoption is one thing but it says nothing about our overburdened foster care system. Aside from that I find it ironic that the pro life crowd is mostly made up of republicans that actively stand against programs such as free and reduced lunch, better and more efficient public education spending, government backed daycare, universal healthcare, more expansive paternity leave for both mothers and fathers ect that would actually benefit these children. The inability to properly care for a child is one of the biggest reasons people want an abortion in the first place. 

Opposing homocide has nothing to do with any of those programs.  In fact, it puts you in a terrible moral position where you say we must cull the herd if we don't provide XYZ programs.

I don't like abortion but oftentimes it is the result of a parent not being able to properly care for a child. You see it as culling the herd but to me it's about the mother making the choice based upon whether or not they can provide for their child. I can guarantee you abortion rates would instantly go down the moment day care becomes drastically more affordable and accessable. 



collint0101 said:
NightlyPoe said:

Opposing homocide has nothing to do with any of those programs.  In fact, it puts you in a terrible moral position where you say we must cull the herd if we don't provide XYZ programs.

I don't like abortion but oftentimes it is the result of a parent not being able to properly care for a child. You see it as culling the herd but to me it's about the mother making the choice based upon whether or not they can provide for their child. I can guarantee you abortion rates would instantly go down the moment day care becomes drastically more affordable and accessable. 

My problem with it is that these people are killing another life because it inconveniences them. It's a hard decision for someone to give up their child for adoption or foster care but honestly the kid is better off alive than to be killed.



collint0101 said:
NightlyPoe said:

Opposing homocide has nothing to do with any of those programs.  In fact, it puts you in a terrible moral position where you say we must cull the herd if we don't provide XYZ programs.

I don't like abortion but oftentimes it is the result of a parent not being able to properly care for a child. You see it as culling the herd but to me it's about the mother making the choice based upon whether or not they can provide for their child. I can guarantee you abortion rates would instantly go down the moment day care becomes drastically more affordable and accessable. 

Of course there's an economic component to it.  But that doesn't mean it's any more okay to kill a child in the womb to save daycare than it is to kill them on six months later.



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NightlyPoe said:
collint0101 said:

I don't like abortion but oftentimes it is the result of a parent not being able to properly care for a child. You see it as culling the herd but to me it's about the mother making the choice based upon whether or not they can provide for their child. I can guarantee you abortion rates would instantly go down the moment day care becomes drastically more affordable and accessable. 

Of course there's an economic component to it.  But that doesn't mean it's any more okay to kill a child in the womb to save daycare than it is to kill them on six months later.

The thing is a fetus isnt a child for a good portion of the time it's in the womb. I'm leery of late term abortion unless there's a serious medical concern involving the mother or child but I have a very hard time saying a fetus is the same as a child for basically all of the first trimester at least



jason1637 said:
collint0101 said:

I don't like abortion but oftentimes it is the result of a parent not being able to properly care for a child. You see it as culling the herd but to me it's about the mother making the choice based upon whether or not they can provide for their child. I can guarantee you abortion rates would instantly go down the moment day care becomes drastically more affordable and accessable. 

My problem with it is that these people are killing another life because it inconveniences them. It's a hard decision for someone to give up their child for adoption or foster care but honestly the kid is better off alive than to be killed.

Writing off legitimate economic factors that determine whether or not someone can properly provide for a child as inconveniences sounds like a bit of an understatement. 



collint0101 said:
jason1637 said:

My problem with it is that these people are killing another life because it inconveniences them. It's a hard decision for someone to give up their child for adoption or foster care but honestly the kid is better off alive than to be killed.

Writing off legitimate economic factors that determine whether or not someone can properly provide for a child as inconveniences sounds like a bit of an understatement. 

Well none is saying they have to provide for the child since there are other options to have the child raised by other people. Just be a decent eneough human being to let them live.



collint0101 said:

The thing is a fetus isnt a child for a good portion of the time it's in the womb. I'm leery of late term abortion unless there's a serious medical concern involving the mother or child but I have a very hard time saying a fetus is the same as a child for basically all of the first trimester at least

I don't see the moral cause of denying a human of his or her most basic of rights, the right to live, based on where they are on a developmental line.  Nor do I find it viable to use the word "fetus" as a means for stripping humanity itself away.



jason1637 said:
collint0101 said:

Writing off legitimate economic factors that determine whether or not someone can properly provide for a child as inconveniences sounds like a bit of an understatement. 

Well none is saying they have to provide for the child. Just be a decent eneough human being to let them live.

That actually sounds terrible. Life is one thing but quality of life is another and fact of the matter is our society is unfortunately unwilling to put systems in place to better the lives of these children after they're born. Like I've said probably 3 other times before this I don't like abortion but unless we see a huge political push to guarantee a decent standard of living for these children I'm going to remain pro choice because often times the alternative is crime, poverty, overburdened foster care, ect. Pro life is only concerned about whether or not a child is born but I doubt anyone here can find a pro life group that's also pushing for parental guidance classes or increased maternity leave