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COKTOE said:
CaptainExplosion said:

By pulling out of Syria Trump further proved he's a schil for tyranny, and an enabler of genocide.

I do not like Trump.

I wish he was in prison, because that's where the bastard belongs. His whole family is a white collar crime organization.



Some days I just blow up.

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CaptainExplosion said:
Snoopy said:
We need to pull our troops out of the middle east and stop being the world police.

You just pulled your troops out of Syria, and now Erdogan is free to go in and commit further war crimes.

And? Still not our duty to police the world. The only thing left to do is kick Turkey out of NATO. I still don't know why we even try to even bring peace in some of these radical Islamic countries, when we know the end result will be anyways.



vivster said:
SpokenTruth said:

When he leaves the White House we'll still have his tweets.

Wait.....can you tweet from prison?

Since when do rich people go to prison in the US?

Epstien?

Snoopy said:
CaptainExplosion said:

You just pulled your troops out of Syria, and now Erdogan is free to go in and commit further war crimes.

And? Still not our duty to police the world. The only thing left to do is kick Turkey out of NATO. I still don't know why we even try to even bring peace in some of these radical Islamic countries, when we know the end result will be anyways.

11,000 Kurdish troops died helping us fight ISIS.  If we leave, Turkey will kill thousands more.

If you're not looking at your feet in shame right now, you have no humanity within you.



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

Jaicee said:

Since this is related to U.S. policy, I thought it was worth mentioning this morning because it's really offensive to me:

Turkey is massing troops on the border with Northern Syria where the Kurds are located and has announced its intention to and retake Kurdish-held territory "very soon", while Trump has announced that he's withdrawing our troops in response and won't do anything to stop the invasion. In fact, Trump went further last night by inviting Erdogan to the White House again as a reward! Reporting last night suggested that Turkey's "very soon" comment likely meant within 24 hours, so we're talking this slaughter is likely to begin today, before I get home from work!

This is exactly what I feared would happen to them all along when Trump was elected and now it's going to actually happen. That's pretty much ruined the day for me. I'm extremely depressed right now. These people were sort of my beacon of hope in the world and now they're going to die. What's more, as a bonus, it's expected that the Turkish bombing campaign and invasion could free thousands of ISIS fighter, additionally, so there's that fun bonus too! So it's all good news, in other words. *sighs*

The Kurds have announced a general mobilization of their forces to the border with Turkey to TRY, and inevitably fail, to repel the highly anticipated invasion. This is happening. And you know what the left and Marxists especially are broadly saying about it: 'Well, we don't belong in the Middle East anyway'. I mean yeah, these people only won the war against ISIS for us at a cost of some 10,000 of their soldiers, what do we owe them?!

People who have followed my thoughts on this matter know that I have consistently supported the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces and their struggle to bring democratic socialism and women's rights to the Middle East. That support does not end for me because our president likes some Islamic (my how his relationship to political Islam has changed!) quasi-dictator better. I am not a war hawk, but I'm not a pacifist either. Without our material support, these people will be drowned in blood and that's a complete and utter betrayal that only goes to show why we are so despised and distrusted by people in that part of the world. And it's frankly nothing less than DISGRACEFUL hypocrisy that the Marxists are all supporting this slaughter simply because the people in question embrace an anarchist variety of socialism rather than operating under the umbrella of Marxist theory! That is a very real betrayal too, IMO.

...Why can't we send Trump the front lines to be the first casualty? SERIOUSLY, THEY CAN HAVE HIM!! At least some good would come out of all this that way. So yeah, sorry for this rant, but I'm really, really depressed right now. This is the worst development all year for my taste. I'll never forgive Trump for this or anyone who supports it. The Marxists especially. They're disgusting. Sorry to bum you out this morning, I'm just really, really angry about this.

I'm paying close attention to which Republicans are standing up for the Kurdish people at this time because, honestly, I'm sort of expecting that we'll have a Democratic sitting president in 2024 and that, in that situation, I might actually vote in the Republican primary for the first time. The White House believes that Nikki Haley in particular has been positioning herself for a 2024 presidential run for some time now. I'm not as wholly closed-minded to someone like Nikki Haley as I guess I'm supposed to be. Or Joni Ernst. Anyway, where a politician, Democratic or Republican, stands on this issue at this time will definitely be relevant to what I think of you going forward. This is my #1 foreign policy concern at present.

It's my number one foreign policy concern as well (unless you count international cooperative action against climate change, I suppose, but even then this is equally urgent if not quite equally important). I think you'll find that there is a LOT more support among Dem voters and politicians for the Kurds than you think, and certainly more than certain segments of VGC would suggest, though even here you see plenty of support for them. So I don't think you'll need to go Republican or anything to save them, if they can be saved. I'm...pretty equally depressed about this too actually, it makes me so sick to my stomach, I can't think about it. It's just too horrible. They're our allies, and were always the bravest fighters against ISIS and the greatest hope for peace and democracy in the Middle East, even more than Israel, in my opinion. I can't accept that they're doomed to some horrible genocide yet. Call it denial, but I have to believe there's some chance they can be saved still.

I'd like to briefly say that, at least to my understanding, it isn't Marxists per se, but rather the "tankie" variety that supports this slaughter, as well as a certain portion of the far left that embraces a hyper-isolationist, hyper-noninterventionist extremism. We have a couple of them in this forum even. I'm not even sure how much they actually believe it's right so much as it makes them feel like they have some moral high ground by claiming to be bigger pacifists. Regardless it disgusts me too.



Day two of the invasion: Turkey is capturing towns, civilians (including children) are already dying, tens of thousands are fleeing as I write this, and the Kurds may have to stop guarding prisons holding ISIS fighters in order to try and fight off Turkish forces. The Kurdish-led forces are reportedly being forced to turn to Russia now for aid in the form of their spearheading peace negotiations with Turkey.

Trump explains on Twitter that Kurdish fighters "didn't help us in the Second World War. They didn't help us with Normandy. ...With all that being said, we like the Kurds." Well that's helpful. Especially coming from a silver-spooned estate-dweller who didn't have the guts to serve his country when it called upon HIM to do so!! I mean they only won the war against ISIS for us at the cost of some 11,000 of their soldiers, what do we owe them?!?!

Also also, remember the "Free Syrian Army?" The Turkish-controlled "rebel" group in Syria who we supported before they decided not to fight ISIS so we had to turn to the Kurds because only they were willing to at the time? That Free Syrian Army? They're reportedly participating in the Turkish invasion!

A bill has been introduced to impose economic sanctions on Turkey in response to all this, and it appears to have broad bi-partisan support. I hope it passes. There should be sanctions and Turkey should be expelled from NATO at bare minimum, IMO. They are NOT our friends!

Honestly, I'm past anger at this point. I just want to cry.

EDIT: Here's the one Republican Senator who I've seen dare to defend this new White House policy, Rand Paul of Kentucky, on the subject: "I stand with @realDonaldTrump today as he once again fulfills his promises to stop our endless wars and have a true America First foreign policy." I'm not sure how this new policy constitutes ending a war so much as starting one, but okay moron! Also, as the National Review article notes, that wasn't Mr. Rand Paul's view back in 2015 when ISIS was at the height of its power in Syria. Here's Rand Paul back then, where he argued that the U.S. should defeat ISIS by arming the Kurds and pledging them their own country. So there's clearly a principle at stake here for Mr. Paul is my point, not just rank political opportunism and shameless hypocrisy!

Last edited by Jaicee - on 10 October 2019

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SpokenTruth said:
vivster said:

Since when do rich people go to prison in the US?

Epstien?

Snoopy said:

And? Still not our duty to police the world. The only thing left to do is kick Turkey out of NATO. I still don't know why we even try to even bring peace in some of these radical Islamic countries, when we know the end result will be anyways.

11,000 Kurdish troops died helping us fight ISIS.  If we leave, Turkey will kill thousands more.

If you're not looking at your feet in shame right now, you have no humanity within you.

ISIS came about after we got involved with the middle east. The truth is, the world is fucked up as it is. Why should we bring ourselves down with them? We need to worry about our interests first. All we should do is kick Turkey out of NATO, implement sanctions and never get involved with these useless wars. We should only use our military might to protect us and our Allie nations that truly has our back.

Last edited by Snoopy - on 10 October 2019

"they didn’t help us with Normandy as an example"

Damn, I guess most nations on earth can't expect much from the Trumpian US then. Especially not that nation that were in Normandy but happened to be on the other side of the fence.



Snoopy said:
SpokenTruth said:

Epstien?

11,000 Kurdish troops died helping us fight ISIS.  If we leave, Turkey will kill thousands more.

If you're not looking at your feet in shame right now, you have no humanity within you.

ISIS came about after we got involved with the middle east. The truth is, the world is fucked up as it is. Why should we bring ourselves down with them? We need to worry about our interests first. All we should do is kick Turkey out of NATO, implement sanctions and never get involved with these useless wars. We should only use our military might to protect us and our Allie nations that truly has our back.

So protecting the Kurds, who helped us bring ISIS to its needs doesn't garner our support.  Instead we leave and give Turkey and Russia free reign in the area.  I am guessing our allies is looking at this and probably thinking, at this point in time, the US is no better then a 2 time hooker.  I am sure Iran and North Korea will look at this and nood believing the word of the US is worth as much as a wooden nickel. 

Last edited by Machiavellian - on 10 October 2019

Isn't it ironic that people complain about our military spending, but the moment we pull troops from random foreign issues that are not directly related to us, we become horrible human beings for not being further involved?



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.

Baalzamon said:
Isn't it ironic that people complain about our military spending, but the moment we pull troops from random foreign issues that are not directly related to us, we become horrible human beings for not being further involved?

It's only ironic if you have no humanity.

Also how is this a "random foreign issue" lmao ok then 

Last edited by tsogud - on 10 October 2019