By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close
SpokenTruth said:
EricHiggin said:

Giuliani and Biden seem like a match made in heaven don't you think?

So you're going to totally forget we already had this conversation several times on this forum, huh?   Ok, you brought it up.  All these are quotes from me.

"The lack of an investigation into Burisma (and others) was the reason Shokin was removed. It was because he wasn't investigating...not because he was investigating. The IMF loaned Ukraine billions of which much was being funneled into offshore accounts. Shokin was supposed to investigate those. He didn't. This is why the international community, including the US, was pressuring for his removal. "

"And who do you think was supposed to investigate the missing IMF money? Prosecutor Viktor Shokin. And he did not do the investigation. In fact, he did not do a lot of investigations. 1 of the investigations he was supposed to do but didn't was the investigation into Burisma. This is why the US, Canada, UK, EU, World Bank and IMF all wanted Shokin fired. It wasn't just Biden."

"You seem to think Prosecutor Shokin was fired because he was investigating Burisma (which Hunter Biden happen to be a board member of). BUT, that's not why he was fired. It's the opposite. Shokin stalled the investigation into Burisma that his predecessor started. He also stalled dozens of other investigations. One of those investigations what about what happened to billions of dollars the IMF and World Bank loaned Ukraine...hence why the global community supported the firing of Shokin and why Joe Biden was tasked with working with Ukraine to remove him. Shokin was protecting his corrupt friends from prosecution. This is all well documented and has been known for years."

I even recall directly replying to you about it but those threads are closed now.

And by the way.....what happened after Vicktor Shokin was fired?  A new prosecutor as brought in and completed the investigation into Burisma.  Also, didn't you know the investigation into Burisma began BEFORE Hunter joined the board?  So how could Shokin have been investigating Hunter Biden if he wasn't even there yet?

Also...did you know that Hunter stepped down from the board of Burisma in April 2019 once his father Joe Biden announced his presidential candidacy so as not to create conflict of interest?

Finally, Shokin's replacement (Lutsenko) and his replacement (Riaboshapka) have both stated that they have not seen any evidence of wrong doing by Hunter or Joe Biden.

All of this is easily accessible public record.  But you and the Republicans want an investigation for answers that have already been answered for years.

So we spoke about some of it before, and? What were the arguments from the other side, or was it just you? How did the conversation end?

Completed the investigation. How do we know he didn't just fill the hole back in? So you're saying that Burisma was already corrupt, which is why Hunter ended up there, making corrupt deals, and could have ended up getting tangled up in it legally as well?

Well if Hunter was still working there when all this came to light, it would look even worse, wouldn't it? Thinking ahead to potential negative media coverage possibly? I've been told that doesn't happen by others, so not sure what or who to believe.

Does that mean there was no wrong doing? Do those individuals know all? What about the Russia investigation? Seems like after Mueller, the one and only person who could get to the bottom of the Trump Russia connection, wasn't able to. It's seems fairly clear though that even after Muellers lack of findings, that the evidence is apparently still out there and that Trump has been a 'pawn of Putin', so...



Around the Network
SpokenTruth said:
EricHiggin said:

If you have two fairly evenly matched teams, and one team cheats, a lot, and wins most of the time because of it, if you refuse to bend and beat them at their own game, your team will eventually cease to exist. Who's the team at fault here?

Trump said something, so what? Just because Trump tells people to do something, they always listen and follow suit? Seriously? There's nobody who went against what Trump wanted, ever?

Then the Senate Dems need to blame the House Dems for not putting together a proper case, not the Senate Reps. As for Hunter. If you really want a Corvette, and you can afford a Corvette, and all I want in return for that car is a Pet Rock, you're going to give me a Pet Rock, because it's just a friggin Pet Rock. You're not going to refuse because 'it would make my dealership seem like a circus'. You'd get me a Pet Rock, and then tell everyone what an idiot I was for selling you a brand new Corvette for next to nothing. Instead, you (the Dems) walked away, and then told everyone, and they all think you're the idiot now. Who passes up a brand new (insert extreme want here) for not much more than free?

So the House did things the same way it's always been done?...

The Senate Democrats voted 100% for the witnesses....including Biden.

Did they?

Seems pretty unlikely since they spent all their time making it clear they weren't ok with that. Guess the Reps made their decision based off of that, and when the Dems changed their mind, it was too late. Kinda sounds like when the House rushed the impeachment process and couldn't get the extra witnesses they said they wanted after the fact. The American people don't have all day, week, or year, for politicians to make up their minds.



SpokenTruth said:
EricHiggin said:

1). So we spoke about some of it before, and? What were the arguments from the other side, or was it just you? How did the conversation end?

2). Completed the investigation. How do we know he didn't just fill the hole back in? So you're saying that Burisma was already corrupt, which is why Hunter ended up there, making corrupt deals, and could have ended up getting tangled up in it legally as well?

3). Well if Hunter was still working there when all this came to light, it would look even worse, wouldn't it? Thinking ahead to potential negative media coverage possibly? I've been told that doesn't happen by others, so not sure what or who to believe.

4). Does that mean there was no wrong doing? Do those individuals know all? What about the Russia investigation? Seems like after Mueller, the one and only person who could get to the bottom of the Trump Russia connection, wasn't able to. It's seems fairly clear though that even after Muellers lack of findings, that the evidence is apparently still out there and that Trump has been a 'pawn of Putin', so...

1). The opposing arguments were limited to unfounded allegations about information already available. It wasn't just me.  I just provided my quotes.  It ended when you and others decided that the truth was irrelevant.

2). Technically, the investigation as into Mykola Zlochevsky: Burisma's founder.  It was never an investigation into Burisma itself.  That's just a lot easier for people to type out than the founder's name. The investigations learned that he violated tax laws.  He paid $7.44 million in fines.  I'd like to know how you think those are related to Hunter Biden joining the board AFTER all that.

3). The investigations started before he got there.  It came to light before eh got there.  What part of that are you not getting?

4). What does Mueller have to do with the 2 Ukrainian Prosecutor Generals? And again, what does Mykola Zlochevsky's tax issues have to with a board member of his company before he joined it?

Who are you getting your information from?  Why are you not researching this yourself?

'Who needs to see the points made by the other side?' LOL

'If you didn't read what I read, and/or didn't understand it the way I understood it, you must be wrong.'  LOL

I'd ask where you're getting your's, but I don't have to ask.  Which is telling and also LOL worthy.



SpokenTruth said:
EricHiggin said:

Did they?

Seems pretty unlikely since they spent all their time making it clear they weren't ok with that. Guess the Reps made their decision based off of that, and when the Dems changed their mind, it was too late. Kinda sounds like when the House rushed the impeachment process and couldn't get the extra witnesses they said they wanted after the fact. The American people don't have all day, week, or year, for politicians to make up their minds.

The Democrats weren't delaying the vote for witnesses.  That vote date was set up before hand.  And they always said they would vote YES on the amendment.  Their disinterest of having Biden testify was irrelevant to them saying they would vote to have witnesses.  In fact, 2 Republicans joined the Democrats to have witnesses. 

And Trump set up golf dates beforehand as well, so what?

"They always said?" Maybe based on wherever you got your info from.

Then the Senates disinterest in having witnesses is irrelevant to them voting not to have witnesses, based on that logic.

A few liberals mentioned to me already, which I felt as well, that was for optics so the Reps looked less biased.



EricHiggin said:
SpokenTruth said:

Giuliani?  He has not been charged yet given we have the current situation to deal with.  And it's likely Trump will be charged as a co-conspirator given that it was him that ordered or cooperated with him. 

And in case you are wonder, the crime is operating as a government agent without proper documentation, procedures and vetting. It's illegal to represent the US government in a foreign country unless you are registered to do so.

I know what they say he did wrong. Excuse me for finding it beyond hard to believe that a well known person like Giuliana, a lawyer, who's in the public eye and a giant target for the Dems and MSM, went and did something clearly illegal, and brags about it on national TV.

Usually suicidal people don't go around, especially on social media, bragging that they're going to off themselves or go kamikaze.

Not the best comparison,suicidal people do what they do because they feel powerless and see no other way out so those that are seriously considering it have nothing to brag about.

Kamikaze is rare and if it happens it is often forced.



Around the Network
Immersiveunreality said:
EricHiggin said:

I know what they say he did wrong. Excuse me for finding it beyond hard to believe that a well known person like Giuliana, a lawyer, who's in the public eye and a giant target for the Dems and MSM, went and did something clearly illegal, and brags about it on national TV.

Usually suicidal people don't go around, especially on social media, bragging that they're going to off themselves or go kamikaze.

Not the best comparison,suicidal people do what they do because they feel powerless and see no other way out so those that are seriously considering it have nothing to brag about.

Kamikaze is rare and if it happens it is often forced.

Really, because you just solidified my point. Giuliani seems far from powerless and beat down, so why would he knowingly 'commit suicide'? Why would Giuliani brag about 'committing suicide' since that's not typical?

"The tradition of death instead of defeat, capture and shame was deeply entrenched in Japanese military culture. One of the primary traditions in the samurai life and the Bushido code was loyalty and honor until death."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamikaze



the-pi-guy said:
EricHiggin said:

Really, because you just solidified my point. Giuliani seems far from powerless and beat down, so why would he knowingly 'commit suicide'? Why would Giuliani brag about 'committing suicide' since that's not typical

Conversely powerful people don't feel like the rules apply to them.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTACH1eVIaA

If someone thinks they are above the law, why couldn't they brag about it?

You can't assume someone's innocence because they are idiotic, and you can't assume someone is innocent because their actions would be considered unthinkable.

It's possible Giuliani feels that way. He did clean up corruption on a level that may make him feel superior. However being a lawyer, and a decent guy until recently, since anyone who tries to help Trump instantly becomes a villain, apparently, it's hard to believe that's the case. If he ends up paying for it, we'll know he turned to the dark side won't we?

The clip though. You really think Trump would actually do that? Saying that other people said he could get away with it, is a lot different than him actually thinking about, if not acting it out.

*You're to assume innocence until guilt has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Courts exist for good reason.

Last edited by EricHiggin - on 01 February 2020

RolStoppable said:
Bandorr said:

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/481167-virginia-gop-delegate-tries-to-kill-own-bill-to-remove-democratic

This is pretty funny.

* Democrats wanted to remove the "Confederate statues across the state, including the statue of Gen. Robert E. Lee in the U.S. Capitol building".
* Del. Wendell Walker (R) introduced a bill to remove the tribute to former governor and U.S. senator "Byrd, who was governor from 1926 to 1930, led the massive resistance in the state during the 1950s and 1960s against school integration after the Brown v. Board of Education ruling in the Supreme Court."
* " Democratic delegates expressed their support for Walker's bill,"
* so Del. Wendell Walker (R) "requested the bill no longer be considered, as he did not want the statue to actually be taken down. "

TL:DR. Democrats wanted to remove one statue. Republican demanded they remove a second status in addition to the first. Democrats agreed. Republicans' bluff gets called, and now doesn't want the statue removed. A poorly played game of political chicken.

Racists - The gift that keeps on giving.

Especially the German version of 'Gift"



SpokenTruth said:
EricHiggin said:

1). And Trump set up golf dates beforehand as well, so what?

2). "They always said?" Maybe based on wherever you got your info from.

3). Then the Senates disinterest in having witnesses is irrelevant to them voting not to have witnesses, based on that logic.

4). A few liberals mentioned to me already, which I felt as well, that was for optics so the Reps looked less biased.

1). What does Trump's golf dates have to do with this?

2). Yous should really re-read what you just wrote.  If the media you read/watch isn't showing you what the Democrats are saying, then you are intentionally being lied to. 

3). First, I hope you meant Republicans, not Senate. And no, the Republicans had an interest in witnesses too.  But they were irrelevant to the case.  They wanted to call Joe Biden, Hunter Biden, Obama and a few others.  Essentially they wanted to flip the impeachment trial of Trump into a criminal trial of the Biden's.  That's not how it works.  If you have a case against the Bidens, then file that case.  Make it happen.  If all that stuff happened, where is that case?  Why isn't the DoJ and State Department investigating? 

4). Wow.  Nice conspiracy theory. You mean to tell me all Senate Republicans got together and decided that a couple of R's need to vote for witnesses to give the impression of impartiality?  What did Mitch McConnell offer the turncoats?  A cushy committee chair appointment?   A whip position?  RE-election campaign support?  You seem to know.

1. My point exactly. Thanks for solidifying it.

2. You mean like when you brought up a past convo between you and I, and left out what I said? This automatically means you were intentionally lying?

3. The Senate voted against witnesses, but more specifically, Reps. What was the entire reasoning again, for going after Trump for impeachment in the first place?

4. Considering it was a few liberals I mentioned who told me they thought this, it's not surprising is it? People have to be offered something to do the right thing?



Bandorr said:
The "Make Iowa Great again" photo coming out of the republican caucus is hilarious for two reasons.

1) It looks fake. The hats just look strange? Looking at the front they all look photoshopped. They are barely on their heads and angled in a way it looks like photoshop.
Or the second row the guy with the grey hair and glasses. It looks like someone just copy and pasted a hat on top of his head.

2) WTF is Ben carson doing squatting in the middle of the bus? Did he not have a seat? Was he sitting in the back?
If they wanted him in the photo why is he not in the front? If they wanted more people in the photo why aren't more people in the middle?
There is an empty seat in the third row - set he is squatting awkwardly in the 5th row.

It is like they wanted to include him.. but also put him in his place at the same time.

Make Iowa great again? You mean, like in 2012, where the republicans needed weeks to find out who won Iowa? Well, looks like the Democrats are trying to...