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EricHiggin said:
tsogud said:

What's life without a bit of goofiness my friend



 

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the-pi-guy said:
https://www.nationalreview.com/magazine/2019/12/31/four-tests-for-impeachment/

"If you have read this far, you know my answer to these questions. The Constitution provides for impeachment and removal to protect us from officials, including presidents, who are unable or unwilling to distinguish between the common good that government is supposed to serve and their own narrow interests. Though he has done some good things in office, Trump is just such a president. Congress should act accordingly."

Solidly Rightwing National Review said that Trump should be removed from the office.

I have a lot of respect for conservatives who rightfully criticize 45 and hold him accountable despite the pressures of establishment Republicans.



 

RolStoppable said:
Why is it so hard to handle for US politicans that Europe intends to buy gas from Russia? Refering to the North Stream 2 sanctions that have been issued.

You guys should be "America first" now, so keep your noses out of Europe.

Well, to punish us Europeans for not buying America First...



RolStoppable said:
Why is it so hard to handle for US politicans that Europe intends to buy gas from Russia? Refering to the North Stream 2 sanctions that have been issued.

You guys should be "America first" now, so keep your noses out of Europe.

Profits.... US wants to make money from it.
Same thing with Trump claiming EU doesnt spend enough on military (he means the EU doesnt buy enough military equipment from them).

The thing is, in the US, included in the military bills, are stuff like health insurances, pentions ect.
While in the EU, that stuff isnt, its something everyone has.

Alot of european countires, the % they spend on military, if counted the same way the americans do, is actually above that 2% margin, they keep mentioning.
The US isnt angry about paying more than others, it likes its military prowess, its anger comes from thinking the rest of the world doesnt buy enough from them, and the military complex they have. Wars and Guns and bombs are good bussiness for the US.



EricHiggin said:
tsogud said:

tsogud said:
EricHiggin said:

What's life without a bit of goofiness my friend

Some like Pictionary, others prefer WOF.

Red and blue. Interesting.



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the-pi-guy said:
EricHiggin said:

Since when does "the rest" "left over" mean a majority?

Over time the country has become more liberal in general, especially the massive population centers. If anything the EC is more important now than ever.

So if the Reps can't win based on their politics, screw them and their followers? Force them to become like their victorious competitors? Diversity?

You want Rep candidates to cater to those who don't agree with them in the slightest? Just a little bit? How much is progressive enough? This isn't business, it's politics. It's not the same as the free market. It's Dems or Reps. Pick one of the 'restaurants' whether you like their atmosphere/food or not, or 'starve'. Feel free to leave a constructive note in the suggestion box though. If only a business person could become President, then everyone would clearly be happy, right?

>Since when does "the rest" "left over" mean a majority?

I don't think I responded to anything where I implied that.  

>Over time the country has become more liberal in general, especially the massive population centers. If anything the EC is more important now than ever.

The country is becoming more libertarian.  Socially liberal (more accepting of LGBT, etc.)  but fiscally conservative (The US use to have a 90% tax rate for top earners, that is nearly unthinkable today among pretty much everyone outside of a few like Bernie.)

You want Rep candidates to cater to those who don't agree with them in the slightest? Just a little bit? How much is progressive enough? This isn't business, it's politics. It's not the same as the free market. It's Dems or Reps. Pick one of the 'restaurants' whether you like their atmosphere/food or not, or 'starve'. Feel free to leave a constructive note in the suggestion box though. If only a business person could become President, then everyone would clearly be happy, right?

The problem with much of your view is that you make a lot of assumptions. 

1.)  People aren't all Democrat or Republican.  Conservatives can vote Democrat just because they have 1 important issue that makes them vote that way, and vice versa.  

2.)  I don't mean the Republican party should become progressive.  They just need to work harder to be more representable.  There's a lot of conservatives that don't vote Republican because they feel that the party is biased against them.  

3.)  A big thing that you are missing is that Republicans are in trouble regardless of the EC.  Minorities that are pushed away by Republicans are increasing in population.  Someday they won't be the minority anymore.  The Republican party basically has to prevent people from voting or they need to become more representable either way.  The former is inarguably awful to do.  

A refresher.

the-pi-guy said:
EricHiggin said:

To initially bring the nation together, compromises needed to be made. You don't get rich and powerful by being a dick and bossing other people around. You get that way by being reasonable and making deals where it's mostly win win. In order to build the nation that exists today, the electoral college was necessary, along with many other things, and still is.

If some administration in the near future was able to do what was necessary to make the change to a strictly pop vote, you can be sure that it would not take all that long for certain states to start to exit. This could end up a major problem, because if all those states who leave, decide to join and create their own country, you can bet they won't exactly be all the friendly to the country who pushed them to leave in the first place. Not like they'll be aggressively hostile, but they sure aren't going to be easy to deal with, and so when it came to efficiency at that point, well, so much for that ideal.

A strictly pop vote will not work for the foreseeable future, because the portion of the pop that will always win that vote, has considerably different views than the rest of the nations voters. It's not like the pop vote would be a vast majority either. The fact that the Presidency has been very equal in terms of party over time, along with the House ending up the opposite mid term, is a good indicator that the system works pretty darn well. Not perfect, but much better than most.

> has considerably different views than the rest of the nations voters.

That's a funny thing to call a "majority".

America had a 90% tax rate, from it's inception until just recently? How much is too much, and who's right?

You mean like how some people don't like the fact that the Reps 'built cages' and are 'forcing those poor children to live in those cages'? The cages a well respected Dem built, and cages that wouldn't house those poor children if they weren't illegally being brought into the country by whomever? I'm sure the media will be oh so helpful in making the candidates messages nothing but clear so that the people can make the most informed decision without question.

Sorry but that's like saying I think Ferrari should build pick up trucks. Where's there representation? How could anyone think favorably about an auto co like that? What you want is a Ford, Dodge, or Chev, but they don't exist. It's Horses vs bulls and you either choose one or walk.

If this is the case, then what about the growing middle class and the people who are coming out of poverty because of the Reps? Are they losing more than they are gaining, or vice versa, or is it basically a draw?



EricHiggin said:

Rights trump efficiency, especially if the 'efficiency' starts to infringe heavily on those rights.

So what if we are talking about the efficiency of providing rights?

If rights trump efficiency, then we should put that role on a central government, not the states, because their will always be variation in the interpretation and expression of rights when subdivided into 50 pieces. On the other hand, a federal government can ensure uniform access to certain rights. Look at gay marriage for an example. Some states legalized gay marriage, but others lagged behind. It took the federal government stepping in and exercising their power to ensure that homosexual individuals uniformly had the right to marriage across the country.

This is the problem with a federal government that relies to heavily on the states when it comes to "rights". It leaves a lot of people behind in areas where certain rights (and often certain demographics) are valued less.



SpokenTruth said:

How is it possible to have a campaign this petty? President Donald Trump's campaign recently launched a website with the URL snowflakevictory.com - How to Win an Argument with Your Liberal Relatives.

His campaign is literally advocating that you argue with your relatives during Christmas and (because they apparently need help winning said arguments) a frikkin guide to help. 

When every other politician and their campaigns (for those running for office) regardless of party are preaching solidarity, peace, family, love, etc...Trump's campaign wants families to fight each other.

If I may play devil's advocate (as I often like to do), there shouldn't be any arguing or fighting if an argument has been won.



SpokenTruth said:
KLAMarine said:

If I may play devil's advocate (as I often like to do), there shouldn't be any arguing or fighting if an argument has been won.

Which would suggest the Trump supporters already lost if they needed a guide to help them. 

But that's also circular logic on your part, "there shouldn't be any arguing...if an argument has been won."  How does one win an "argument" if there never was an "argument"?  And if you're trying to imply there shouldn't be 'further arguments' if the 'initial argument' was already won, then see my point above. 

"Which would suggest the Trump supporters already lost if they needed a guide to help them."

>Not if the argument was ongoing when supporters got their hands on the guide.

"But that's also circular logic on your part, "there shouldn't be any arguing...if an argument has been won."  How does one win an "argument" if there never was an "argument"?"

>Pardon me, there shouldn't be any further arguing.

"And if you're trying to imply there shouldn't be 'further arguments' if the 'initial argument' was already won, then see my point above."

>See what point?



sundin13 said:
EricHiggin said:

Rights trump efficiency, especially if the 'efficiency' starts to infringe heavily on those rights.

So what if we are talking about the efficiency of providing rights?

If rights trump efficiency, then we should put that role on a central government, not the states, because their will always be variation in the interpretation and expression of rights when subdivided into 50 pieces. On the other hand, a federal government can ensure uniform access to certain rights. Look at gay marriage for an example. Some states legalized gay marriage, but others lagged behind. It took the federal government stepping in and exercising their power to ensure that homosexual individuals uniformly had the right to marriage across the country.

This is the problem with a federal government that relies to heavily on the states when it comes to "rights". It leaves a lot of people behind in areas where certain rights (and often certain demographics) are valued less.

The problem with rights is they're not universal laws. They are something we made up for the good of the people, based on consensus. The reason for the rights that initially were written in, is because they were widely agreed upon. Eventually at least. This is why the Federal Gov should not be pushing states around. If the state is against rights the Gov is promoting, then the state should be given the time to make changes, or decide not to. You can bet if certain states knew that the Gov would end up with as much power as it has, and would push rights and laws, etc, that they may be against, without the power to stop it, they very well may have never joined in the first place.

In terms of leaving people behind, it happens all the time, everyday, in every way. That's life. Just because the Federal Gov decided to make up a new right and push it on the states, shouldn't mean that they have to just bend over and accept it. Sure this sounds fine when the rights seem worthy to some, but what about if they don't seem worthy to others, or many even? If the Gov can just force rights on states and their people immediately, what about if and/or when they decide to force them to do the unthinkable? Should the states just blindly obey? What's good and what's not, exactly?

A Federal Gov with less power means less efficiency in terms of getting done what it decides it wants to, but leaves people with more freedom and choice in their lives with existing rights in general. If new rights truly make sense, eventually they will be agreed upon and pushed through. Until then, whoever wants those rights, is free to do as they please until then for the most part. Protest, move to another state that has instated the right for the time being, move back if your state eventually agree's to implement it, etc.

Is force more preferable over choice? Is efficiency more preferable over existing rights?