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tsogud said:
EricHiggin said:

"That said, if this were a normal presidency".

This right here. It's not a typical presidency, especially when it comes to the constant bombardment against the President. He's not the only one to get heat, but he sure does get way more than what's typical, and more B.S. nonsense along with it. Two entire years of constantly being smeared as a Russian pawn, only to find out there's little to no evidence of that? At least the opposition were willing to be the grown up's and apologize when the report was finished and Trump was cleared... or did they just jump to the next smear campaign? Hmmm...

You hear a lot about what Trump should do, like maybe, not always taking all the credit. When he does do that though, it get's disregarded or is a bad thing or it's just not good enough. Why bother trying to please people who obviously can't be pleased? If you won't hold yourself to the same basic decent human standards that you ask of someone else, then don't expect other people to act on what you preach.

He was never cleared.

He was never charged, and while he could face impeachment hearings, for reasons, like stuff, it's taking an awful long time to start that process, considering he's so clearly guilty...



The Canadian National Anthem According To Justin Trudeau

 

Oh planet Earth! The home of native lands, 
True social law, in all of us demand.
With cattle farts, we view sea rise,
Our North sinking slowly.
From far and snide, oh planet Earth, 
Our healthcare is yours free!
Science save our land, harnessing the breeze,
Oh planet Earth, smoke weed and ferment yeast.
Oh planet Earth, ell gee bee queue and tee.

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EricHiggin said:
sundin13 said:

Things would be very different under different circumstances.

First of all, I don't really think anyone is under the impression that Trump really does much listening, or going over things with a fine-toothed comb. He seems to be either reading from a teleprompter or just kinda winging it. I think this is one of the things that makes a Trump Lie different that your typical "Politician Lie". A politician typically lies by knowing all the facts and manipulating them to say what they want them to say (through bias interpretations or misleading selection of evidence). A Trump Lie on the other hand involves him just saying something with no facts to back it up other than something he may or may not have heard somewhere over the past week or so.

Second, Trump never really admits error on his own part, so it would feel like scapegoating were he to simply blame it on someone else. A culture of accountability starts at the top, and if the people at the top are always desperately pointing fingers at others and never taking any blame, you haven't developed any accountability.

That said, if this were a normal presidency, I still believe the President should apologize, because it doesn't really matter where he got the information. He is the boss. If someone below him failed to do their job, that reflects on him as the boss and the environment he has created. He should ensure that he is backing himself up by people who he can trust to tell the truth and not simply Yes Men (another area where Trump is failing), and when a mistake is made under him, he should take credit as the head of that chain of command.

"That said, if this were a normal presidency".

This right here. It's not a typical presidency, especially when it comes to the constant bombardment against the President. He's not the only one to get heat, but he sure does get way more than what's typical, and more B.S. nonsense along with it. Two entire years of constantly being smeared as a Russian pawn, only to find out there's little to no evidence of that? At least the opposition were willing to be the grown up's and apologize when the report was finished and Trump was cleared... or did they just jump to the next smear campaign? Hmmm...

You hear a lot about what Trump should do, like maybe, not always taking all the credit. When he does do that though, it get's disregarded or is a bad thing or it's just not good enough. Why bother trying to please people who obviously can't be pleased? If you won't hold yourself to the same basic decent human standards that you ask of someone else, then don't expect other people to act on what you preach.

There were quite a few pieces of evidence, but not enough evidence for a trial, hence why he was never cleared like he tries to pretend all the time, as everything still pointed at it.



EricHiggin said:
tsogud said:

He was never cleared.

He was never charged, and while he could face impeachment hearings, for reasons, like stuff, it's taking an awful long time to start that process, considering he's so clearly guilty...

Impeachment proceedings are complicated and the establishment Democrats are a bunch of corrupted hacks so it's going to take even longer. That doesn't mean he's cleared, that's a completely flawed conclusion you've come to based on a flawed chain of reasoning. Taking a long time doesn't equate to being cleared.



 

EricHiggin said:
jason1637 said:

It's his team and his responsibility at the end of the day. It's not like random people are assigned to these positions he has to vet them and create a team of advisors and cabinet members. If they do a terrible job it reflects poorly on the person that gave them the job on the first place aka Trump.

I agree that sometimes Trump does get blamed for things he had no direct involvement in and that running a whole country is hard and members of your cabinet might deserve more blame for mishaps that happen but at the end of the day it's Trumps job and he knew what he was getting himself into when he decided to run for President.

Did they do a terrible job though or make a minor mistake if you take everything into account, considering safety first, not money? Do the people need to take any responsibility for themselves? If Trump says something is great, like a restaurant let's say, and some people go to that restaurant because of that, but get food poisoning along with everyone else eating there that particular night, whenever it happens to be, is that Trumps fault? If it is, how much fault is his, and should he apologize to those people, or should it all fall on the restaurant itself?

I agree Trump would have had a general idea of what to expect as a President if he won, but it's said that it's just as possible he thought he didn't stand a chance of winning. Even knowing what he may run into with a win, do you really think he was anticipating anything close to what's transpired? Did anyone, other than his opposition, maybe? If someone started a war with America today, would they really anticipate the use of nuclear weapons? Sure, that's possible since they exist, but it's unbelievably unlikely.

Well with a country of over 300 million people minor mistakes can fuck over a lot of people. Yeah people make mistakes on the job and most people are not expecting advisors and cabinet members to be perfect but they still ought to eb held to a high standard because their jobs have a big impact on our lives. As for the restraunt example I think thats a poor one because the restraunt Trump does not run but he runs the White House. For example if we look at the HUD secretary Ben Carson. 



EricHiggin said:
jason1637 said:

It's his team and his responsibility at the end of the day. It's not like random people are assigned to these positions he has to vet them and create a team of advisors and cabinet members. If they do a terrible job it reflects poorly on the person that gave them the job on the first place aka Trump.

I agree that sometimes Trump does get blamed for things he had no direct involvement in and that running a whole country is hard and members of your cabinet might deserve more blame for mishaps that happen but at the end of the day it's Trumps job and he knew what he was getting himself into when he decided to run for President.

Did they do a terrible job though or make a minor mistake if you take everything into account, considering safety first, not money? Do the people need to take any responsibility for themselves? If Trump says something is great, like a restaurant let's say, and some people go to that restaurant because of that, but get food poisoning along with everyone else eating there that particular night, whenever it happens to be, is that Trumps fault? If it is, how much fault is his, and should he apologize to those people, or should it all fall on the restaurant itself?

I agree Trump would have had a general idea of what to expect as a President if he won, but it's said that it's just as possible he thought he didn't stand a chance of winning. Even knowing what he may run into with a win, do you really think he was anticipating anything close to what's transpired? Did anyone, other than his opposition, maybe? If someone started a war with America today, would they really anticipate the use of nuclear weapons? Sure, that's possible since they exist, but it's unbelievably unlikely.

Well with a country of over 300 million people minor mistakes can fuck over a lot of people. Yeah people make mistakes on the job and most people are not expecting advisors and cabinet members to be perfect but they still ought to eb held to a high standard because their jobs have a big impact on our lives. As for the restraunt example I think thats a poor one because the restraunt Trump does not run but he runs the White House. For example if we look at the HUD secretary Ben Carson. He's a doctor with no experience in housing or government and some might say that the white house has doen a bad job in this department. Now who's fault is this? I'd blame Trump and the Senate because they hired a doctor to run housing an durban development. If you owned a pizzeria and needed a cook you wouldnt hire a mechanic.

He poured millions of his own money into the race so i'm sure he thought he had a chance to win. No I don't think anyone can be truly prepared to be President but the guy has been President for almost 3 years no so I think that excuse can't be used anymore.



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EricHiggin said:
sundin13 said:

Things would be very different under different circumstances.

First of all, I don't really think anyone is under the impression that Trump really does much listening, or going over things with a fine-toothed comb. He seems to be either reading from a teleprompter or just kinda winging it. I think this is one of the things that makes a Trump Lie different that your typical "Politician Lie". A politician typically lies by knowing all the facts and manipulating them to say what they want them to say (through bias interpretations or misleading selection of evidence). A Trump Lie on the other hand involves him just saying something with no facts to back it up other than something he may or may not have heard somewhere over the past week or so.

Second, Trump never really admits error on his own part, so it would feel like scapegoating were he to simply blame it on someone else. A culture of accountability starts at the top, and if the people at the top are always desperately pointing fingers at others and never taking any blame, you haven't developed any accountability.

That said, if this were a normal presidency, I still believe the President should apologize, because it doesn't really matter where he got the information. He is the boss. If someone below him failed to do their job, that reflects on him as the boss and the environment he has created. He should ensure that he is backing himself up by people who he can trust to tell the truth and not simply Yes Men (another area where Trump is failing), and when a mistake is made under him, he should take credit as the head of that chain of command.

"That said, if this were a normal presidency".

This right here. It's not a typical presidency, especially when it comes to the constant bombardment against the President. He's not the only one to get heat, but he sure does get way more than what's typical, and more B.S. nonsense along with it. Two entire years of constantly being smeared as a Russian pawn, only to find out there's little to no evidence of that? At least the opposition were willing to be the grown up's and apologize when the report was finished and Trump was cleared... or did they just jump to the next smear campaign? Hmmm...

You hear a lot about what Trump should do, like maybe, not always taking all the credit. When he does do that though, it get's disregarded or is a bad thing or it's just not good enough. Why bother trying to please people who obviously can't be pleased? If you won't hold yourself to the same basic decent human standards that you ask of someone else, then don't expect other people to act on what you preach.

The Report: This report doesn't exonerate Trump
Trump: Complete exoneration

Just because the president says it, doesn't mean it is true. Meanwhile, you can't really ask "why wasn't he charged if he is guilty", when the Attorney General (who he appointed) literally said that a sitting president cannot be charged.

That said, while Trump does get a lot of bad coverage, he does a lot of really stupid things. You can't really compare the coverage of one president to another when Trump is so universally atypical. Most of the time, when Trump is getting flak, it is either because he deserved or because he instigated it. He doesn't get a free pass on stupid bullshit just because he does a lot of stupid bullshit...



Bofferbrauer2 said:
EricHiggin said:

"That said, if this were a normal presidency".

This right here. It's not a typical presidency, especially when it comes to the constant bombardment against the President. He's not the only one to get heat, but he sure does get way more than what's typical, and more B.S. nonsense along with it. Two entire years of constantly being smeared as a Russian pawn, only to find out there's little to no evidence of that? At least the opposition were willing to be the grown up's and apologize when the report was finished and Trump was cleared... or did they just jump to the next smear campaign? Hmmm...

You hear a lot about what Trump should do, like maybe, not always taking all the credit. When he does do that though, it get's disregarded or is a bad thing or it's just not good enough. Why bother trying to please people who obviously can't be pleased? If you won't hold yourself to the same basic decent human standards that you ask of someone else, then don't expect other people to act on what you preach.

There were quite a few pieces of evidence, but not enough evidence for a trial, hence why he was never cleared like he tries to pretend all the time, as everything still pointed at it.

Useless evidence from a useless investigation that's going to be used to try and impeach him? You can't write this kind of nonsense, not sober anyway.

Btw, you can make a magnet point to a false North if you know what you're doing. I thought it was 'True North' though?



The Canadian National Anthem According To Justin Trudeau

 

Oh planet Earth! The home of native lands, 
True social law, in all of us demand.
With cattle farts, we view sea rise,
Our North sinking slowly.
From far and snide, oh planet Earth, 
Our healthcare is yours free!
Science save our land, harnessing the breeze,
Oh planet Earth, smoke weed and ferment yeast.
Oh planet Earth, ell gee bee queue and tee.

tsogud said:
EricHiggin said:

He was never charged, and while he could face impeachment hearings, for reasons, like stuff, it's taking an awful long time to start that process, considering he's so clearly guilty...

Impeachment proceedings are complicated and the establishment Democrats are a bunch of corrupted hacks so it's going to take even longer. That doesn't mean he's cleared, that's a completely flawed conclusion you've come to based on a flawed chain of reasoning. Taking a long time doesn't equate to being cleared.

So the American people should put their faith and trust in those "corrupted hacks"?

Taking a long time in this case equates to either political strategy to align with the election campaign to try and stop Trumps possible re-election, or because they aren't going to bother but won't let it go because it somehow keeps the base wound up.



The Canadian National Anthem According To Justin Trudeau

 

Oh planet Earth! The home of native lands, 
True social law, in all of us demand.
With cattle farts, we view sea rise,
Our North sinking slowly.
From far and snide, oh planet Earth, 
Our healthcare is yours free!
Science save our land, harnessing the breeze,
Oh planet Earth, smoke weed and ferment yeast.
Oh planet Earth, ell gee bee queue and tee.

EricHiggin said:
tsogud said:

Impeachment proceedings are complicated and the establishment Democrats are a bunch of corrupted hacks so it's going to take even longer. That doesn't mean he's cleared, that's a completely flawed conclusion you've come to based on a flawed chain of reasoning. Taking a long time doesn't equate to being cleared.

So the American people should put their faith and trust in those "corrupted hacks"?

Taking a long time in this case equates to either political strategy to align with the election campaign to try and stop Trumps possible re-election, or because they aren't going to bother but won't let it go because it somehow keeps the base wound up.

Where have you been? Have you had your eyes closed the entire time? Almost the entire political establishment are corrupted hacks save for a few. 45 is a corrupted hack, Pence, Nancy Pelosi, Mitch McConnell obviously is, etc. it could go on.

You may need to research more on the report and what it actually says or maybe just read it yourself. Also you went back on what taking a long time means, first you said it meant he was cleared now you say it's a political strategy. If your opinion changed and it's the latter, I'd agree with that, I believe they should've got on with the proceedings way sooner.

Last edited by tsogud - on 11 September 2019

 

jason1637 said:
EricHiggin said:

Did they do a terrible job though or make a minor mistake if you take everything into account, considering safety first, not money? Do the people need to take any responsibility for themselves? If Trump says something is great, like a restaurant let's say, and some people go to that restaurant because of that, but get food poisoning along with everyone else eating there that particular night, whenever it happens to be, is that Trumps fault? If it is, how much fault is his, and should he apologize to those people, or should it all fall on the restaurant itself?

I agree Trump would have had a general idea of what to expect as a President if he won, but it's said that it's just as possible he thought he didn't stand a chance of winning. Even knowing what he may run into with a win, do you really think he was anticipating anything close to what's transpired? Did anyone, other than his opposition, maybe? If someone started a war with America today, would they really anticipate the use of nuclear weapons? Sure, that's possible since they exist, but it's unbelievably unlikely.

Well with a country of over 300 million people minor mistakes can fuck over a lot of people. Yeah people make mistakes on the job and most people are not expecting advisors and cabinet members to be perfect but they still ought to eb held to a high standard because their jobs have a big impact on our lives. As for the restraunt example I think thats a poor one because the restraunt Trump does not run but he runs the White House. For example if we look at the HUD secretary Ben Carson. He's a doctor with no experience in housing or government and some might say that the white house has doen a bad job in this department. Now who's fault is this? I'd blame Trump and the Senate because they hired a doctor to run housing an durban development. If you owned a pizzeria and needed a cook you wouldnt hire a mechanic.

He poured millions of his own money into the race so i'm sure he thought he had a chance to win. No I don't think anyone can be truly prepared to be President but the guy has been President for almost 3 years no so I think that excuse can't be used anymore.

Trump doesn't run the restaurant and he doesn't run the weather networks, yet he's to blame for weather related comments but not food related?

I'm an electrician who grew up on a farm and I'm certainly a better mechanic then my tiny local garage partners. Those guys lost my business a long time ago because it took them forever to figure out anything and dared try to charge me for the full amount of their time. Good thing they have certificates and a title though because that automatically makes them better at their job then anyone else period, I guess. A good friend of mine is a better mechanic no doubt however, so expected performance due to a certain title doesn't guarantee anything.

Sure it can. Just because you, being you, triggers certain people, doesn't necessarily justify their actions. What happened to allowing people to be themselves? Isn't expecting people to present themselves in a certain way, oppressive? Where is or should that line be drawn? Can it ever move? Who decides and when?



The Canadian National Anthem According To Justin Trudeau

 

Oh planet Earth! The home of native lands, 
True social law, in all of us demand.
With cattle farts, we view sea rise,
Our North sinking slowly.
From far and snide, oh planet Earth, 
Our healthcare is yours free!
Science save our land, harnessing the breeze,
Oh planet Earth, smoke weed and ferment yeast.
Oh planet Earth, ell gee bee queue and tee.