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EricHiggin said:
I wonder if Trump does all the work himself when he presents something to the people. You'd think with a job like that he would have teams that would put the majority of it together for him. I wonder how much time Trump has to go over all of the information in every presentation with a fine tooth comb? If mistakes are made by the team, should Trump take the blame for them? If Trump publically apologizes while pointing out it was the team who screwed up, would that be accepted by those who were upset?

I think we all know the negative reaction that would still follow and who the blame would go to regardless.

He has advisors and a cabinet but he's President so he probably has to approve most things that happen.



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the-pi-guy said:
:warning:
The conversation about the hurricane isn't going anywhere. Time to drop it.

Consider it done...



jason1637 said:
EricHiggin said:
I wonder if Trump does all the work himself when he presents something to the people. You'd think with a job like that he would have teams that would put the majority of it together for him. I wonder how much time Trump has to go over all of the information in every presentation with a fine tooth comb? If mistakes are made by the team, should Trump take the blame for them? If Trump publically apologizes while pointing out it was the team who screwed up, would that be accepted by those who were upset?

I think we all know the negative reaction that would still follow and who the blame would go to regardless.

He has advisors and a cabinet but he's President so he probably has to approve most things that happen.

Sure, but assuming the team had whatever info they felt they needed, even if Trump asked, 'are you sure all these area's will be impacted', the obvious answer from them would be, 'yes'. Should Trump trust his team or assume they are always wrong? Based on something like severe weather, it's not like he would have been able to clearly tell they might be wrong. While I'm not saying it wouldn't be Trumps fault in anyway, since like you said, he would have to approve it, the overwhelming majority would be because of the team, and so Trump should apologize and have all the blame publically put on him?

Like I said, even if he was honest and apologized yet pointed out it was due to mistakes the team made, the people who were upset would just blame Trump anyway, plus paint him in a negative light for trying to put the onus on the team, when in reality, it was the majority their fault.

This is quite possibly why he wouldn't bother apologizing, since he's getting blamed no matter what he does, so he might as well publically support his team instead of throwing them under the bus. I'm sure behind closed doors that team would have gotten an earful though to make sure it doesn't happen again. Yes it still looks bad on the administration, but not as bad as pointing out some people within it made some mistakes. Trump is a constant target anyway, so he might as well just take another punch to save face for that team.



The Canadian National Anthem According To Justin Trudeau

 

Oh planet Earth! The home of native lands, 
True social law, in all of us demand.
With cattle farts, we view sea rise,
Our North sinking slowly.
From far and snide, oh planet Earth, 
Our healthcare is yours free!
Science save our land, harnessing the breeze,
Oh planet Earth, smoke weed and ferment yeast.
Oh planet Earth, ell gee bee queue and tee.

EricHiggin said:
I wonder if Trump does all the work himself when he presents something to the people. You'd think with a job like that he would have teams that would put the majority of it together for him. I wonder how much time Trump has to go over all of the information in every presentation with a fine tooth comb? If mistakes are made by the team, should Trump take the blame for them? If Trump publically apologizes while pointing out it was the team who screwed up, would that be accepted by those who were upset?

I think we all know the negative reaction that would still follow and who the blame would go to regardless.

When Trump make statements, who takes all the credit.  Have you ever seen Trump give credit to anyone but himself.  Well it's a two edged sword, If he takes all the credit when correct, he will also take all the blame when he is wrong.  It's his job to go over all the information because it's basically his neck on the line if its wrong.  If your expectation is that Trump would not take the time to read everything he is given and challenge anything that doesn't appear correct, we definitely have a different expectation of the POTUS office.



EricHiggin said:
jason1637 said:

He has advisors and a cabinet but he's President so he probably has to approve most things that happen.

Sure, but assuming the team had whatever info they felt they needed, even if Trump asked, 'are you sure all these area's will be impacted', the obvious answer from them would be, 'yes'. Should Trump trust his team or assume they are always wrong? Based on something like severe weather, it's not like he would have been able to clearly tell they might be wrong. While I'm not saying it wouldn't be Trumps fault in anyway, since like you said, he would have to approve it, the overwhelming majority would be because of the team, and so Trump should apologize and have all the blame publically put on him?

Like I said, even if he was honest and apologized yet pointed out it was due to mistakes the team made, the people who were upset would just blame Trump anyway, plus paint him in a negative light for trying to put the onus on the team, when in reality, it was the majority their fault.

This is quite possibly why he wouldn't bother apologizing, since he's getting blamed no matter what he does, so he might as well publically support his team instead of throwing them under the bus. I'm sure behind closed doors that team would have gotten an earful though to make sure it doesn't happen again. Yes it still looks bad on the administration, but not as bad as pointing out some people within it made some mistakes. Trump is a constant target anyway, so he might as well just take another punch to save face for that team.

Things would be very different under different circumstances.

First of all, I don't really think anyone is under the impression that Trump really does much listening, or going over things with a fine-toothed comb. He seems to be either reading from a teleprompter or just kinda winging it. I think this is one of the things that makes a Trump Lie different that your typical "Politician Lie". A politician typically lies by knowing all the facts and manipulating them to say what they want them to say (through bias interpretations or misleading selection of evidence). A Trump Lie on the other hand involves him just saying something with no facts to back it up other than something he may or may not have heard somewhere over the past week or so.

Second, Trump never really admits error on his own part, so it would feel like scapegoating were he to simply blame it on someone else. A culture of accountability starts at the top, and if the people at the top are always desperately pointing fingers at others and never taking any blame, you haven't developed any accountability.

That said, if this were a normal presidency, I still believe the President should apologize, because it doesn't really matter where he got the information. He is the boss. If someone below him failed to do their job, that reflects on him as the boss and the environment he has created. He should ensure that he is backing himself up by people who he can trust to tell the truth and not simply Yes Men (another area where Trump is failing), and when a mistake is made under him, he should take credit as the head of that chain of command.



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EricHiggin said:
jason1637 said:

He has advisors and a cabinet but he's President so he probably has to approve most things that happen.

Sure, but assuming the team had whatever info they felt they needed, even if Trump asked, 'are you sure all these area's will be impacted', the obvious answer from them would be, 'yes'. Should Trump trust his team or assume they are always wrong? Based on something like severe weather, it's not like he would have been able to clearly tell they might be wrong. While I'm not saying it wouldn't be Trumps fault in anyway, since like you said, he would have to approve it, the overwhelming majority would be because of the team, and so Trump should apologize and have all the blame publically put on him?

Like I said, even if he was honest and apologized yet pointed out it was due to mistakes the team made, the people who were upset would just blame Trump anyway, plus paint him in a negative light for trying to put the onus on the team, when in reality, it was the majority their fault.

This is quite possibly why he wouldn't bother apologizing, since he's getting blamed no matter what he does, so he might as well publically support his team instead of throwing them under the bus. I'm sure behind closed doors that team would have gotten an earful though to make sure it doesn't happen again. Yes it still looks bad on the administration, but not as bad as pointing out some people within it made some mistakes. Trump is a constant target anyway, so he might as well just take another punch to save face for that team.

It's his team and his responsibility at the end of the day. It's not like random people are assigned to these positions he has to vet them and create a team of advisors and cabinet members. If they do a terrible job it reflects poorly on the person that gave them the job on the first place aka Trump.

I agree that sometimes Trump does get blamed for things he had no direct involvement in and that running a whole country is hard and members of your cabinet might deserve more blame for mishaps that happen but at the end of the day it's Trumps job and he knew what he was getting himself into when he decided to run for President.



Machiavellian said:
EricHiggin said:
I wonder if Trump does all the work himself when he presents something to the people. You'd think with a job like that he would have teams that would put the majority of it together for him. I wonder how much time Trump has to go over all of the information in every presentation with a fine tooth comb? If mistakes are made by the team, should Trump take the blame for them? If Trump publically apologizes while pointing out it was the team who screwed up, would that be accepted by those who were upset?

I think we all know the negative reaction that would still follow and who the blame would go to regardless.

When Trump make statements, who takes all the credit.  Have you ever seen Trump give credit to anyone but himself.  Well it's a two edged sword, If he takes all the credit when correct, he will also take all the blame when he is wrong.  It's his job to go over all the information because it's basically his neck on the line if its wrong.  If your expectation is that Trump would not take the time to read everything he is given and challenge anything that doesn't appear correct, we definitely have a different expectation of the POTUS office.

Nothing but "we's" or "our's" in this statement.

What are the odds that Trump would have seen at some earlier point in time, that certain states could be impacted, so when his teams work showed at least some of those area's were still potentially going to be impacted, he didn't question it? I see no reason why he should have further checked into that based on the assumption of his prior knowledge. Now maybe he didn't know anything about it, but that's pretty unrealistic.



The Canadian National Anthem According To Justin Trudeau

 

Oh planet Earth! The home of native lands, 
True social law, in all of us demand.
With cattle farts, we view sea rise,
Our North sinking slowly.
From far and snide, oh planet Earth, 
Our healthcare is yours free!
Science save our land, harnessing the breeze,
Oh planet Earth, smoke weed and ferment yeast.
Oh planet Earth, ell gee bee queue and tee.

sundin13 said:
EricHiggin said:

Sure, but assuming the team had whatever info they felt they needed, even if Trump asked, 'are you sure all these area's will be impacted', the obvious answer from them would be, 'yes'. Should Trump trust his team or assume they are always wrong? Based on something like severe weather, it's not like he would have been able to clearly tell they might be wrong. While I'm not saying it wouldn't be Trumps fault in anyway, since like you said, he would have to approve it, the overwhelming majority would be because of the team, and so Trump should apologize and have all the blame publically put on him?

Like I said, even if he was honest and apologized yet pointed out it was due to mistakes the team made, the people who were upset would just blame Trump anyway, plus paint him in a negative light for trying to put the onus on the team, when in reality, it was the majority their fault.

This is quite possibly why he wouldn't bother apologizing, since he's getting blamed no matter what he does, so he might as well publically support his team instead of throwing them under the bus. I'm sure behind closed doors that team would have gotten an earful though to make sure it doesn't happen again. Yes it still looks bad on the administration, but not as bad as pointing out some people within it made some mistakes. Trump is a constant target anyway, so he might as well just take another punch to save face for that team.

Things would be very different under different circumstances.

First of all, I don't really think anyone is under the impression that Trump really does much listening, or going over things with a fine-toothed comb. He seems to be either reading from a teleprompter or just kinda winging it. I think this is one of the things that makes a Trump Lie different that your typical "Politician Lie". A politician typically lies by knowing all the facts and manipulating them to say what they want them to say (through bias interpretations or misleading selection of evidence). A Trump Lie on the other hand involves him just saying something with no facts to back it up other than something he may or may not have heard somewhere over the past week or so.

Second, Trump never really admits error on his own part, so it would feel like scapegoating were he to simply blame it on someone else. A culture of accountability starts at the top, and if the people at the top are always desperately pointing fingers at others and never taking any blame, you haven't developed any accountability.

That said, if this were a normal presidency, I still believe the President should apologize, because it doesn't really matter where he got the information. He is the boss. If someone below him failed to do their job, that reflects on him as the boss and the environment he has created. He should ensure that he is backing himself up by people who he can trust to tell the truth and not simply Yes Men (another area where Trump is failing), and when a mistake is made under him, he should take credit as the head of that chain of command.

"That said, if this were a normal presidency".

This right here. It's not a typical presidency, especially when it comes to the constant bombardment against the President. He's not the only one to get heat, but he sure does get way more than what's typical, and more B.S. nonsense along with it. Two entire years of constantly being smeared as a Russian pawn, only to find out there's little to no evidence of that? At least the opposition were willing to be the grown up's and apologize when the report was finished and Trump was cleared... or did they just jump to the next smear campaign? Hmmm...

You hear a lot about what Trump should do, like maybe, not always taking all the credit. When he does do that though, it get's disregarded or is a bad thing or it's just not good enough. Why bother trying to please people who obviously can't be pleased? If you won't hold yourself to the same basic decent human standards that you ask of someone else, then don't expect other people to act on what you preach.



The Canadian National Anthem According To Justin Trudeau

 

Oh planet Earth! The home of native lands, 
True social law, in all of us demand.
With cattle farts, we view sea rise,
Our North sinking slowly.
From far and snide, oh planet Earth, 
Our healthcare is yours free!
Science save our land, harnessing the breeze,
Oh planet Earth, smoke weed and ferment yeast.
Oh planet Earth, ell gee bee queue and tee.

jason1637 said:
EricHiggin said:

Sure, but assuming the team had whatever info they felt they needed, even if Trump asked, 'are you sure all these area's will be impacted', the obvious answer from them would be, 'yes'. Should Trump trust his team or assume they are always wrong? Based on something like severe weather, it's not like he would have been able to clearly tell they might be wrong. While I'm not saying it wouldn't be Trumps fault in anyway, since like you said, he would have to approve it, the overwhelming majority would be because of the team, and so Trump should apologize and have all the blame publically put on him?

Like I said, even if he was honest and apologized yet pointed out it was due to mistakes the team made, the people who were upset would just blame Trump anyway, plus paint him in a negative light for trying to put the onus on the team, when in reality, it was the majority their fault.

This is quite possibly why he wouldn't bother apologizing, since he's getting blamed no matter what he does, so he might as well publically support his team instead of throwing them under the bus. I'm sure behind closed doors that team would have gotten an earful though to make sure it doesn't happen again. Yes it still looks bad on the administration, but not as bad as pointing out some people within it made some mistakes. Trump is a constant target anyway, so he might as well just take another punch to save face for that team.

It's his team and his responsibility at the end of the day. It's not like random people are assigned to these positions he has to vet them and create a team of advisors and cabinet members. If they do a terrible job it reflects poorly on the person that gave them the job on the first place aka Trump.

I agree that sometimes Trump does get blamed for things he had no direct involvement in and that running a whole country is hard and members of your cabinet might deserve more blame for mishaps that happen but at the end of the day it's Trumps job and he knew what he was getting himself into when he decided to run for President.

Did they do a terrible job though or make a minor mistake if you take everything into account, considering safety first, not money? Do the people need to take any responsibility for themselves? If Trump says something is great, like a restaurant let's say, and some people go to that restaurant because of that, but get food poisoning along with everyone else eating there that particular night, whenever it happens to be, is that Trumps fault? If it is, how much fault is his, and should he apologize to those people, or should it all fall on the restaurant itself?

I agree Trump would have had a general idea of what to expect as a President if he won, but it's said that it's just as possible he thought he didn't stand a chance of winning. Even knowing what he may run into with a win, do you really think he was anticipating anything close to what's transpired? Did anyone, other than his opposition, maybe? If someone started a war with America today, would they really anticipate the use of nuclear weapons? Sure, that's possible since they exist, but it's unbelievably unlikely.



The Canadian National Anthem According To Justin Trudeau

 

Oh planet Earth! The home of native lands, 
True social law, in all of us demand.
With cattle farts, we view sea rise,
Our North sinking slowly.
From far and snide, oh planet Earth, 
Our healthcare is yours free!
Science save our land, harnessing the breeze,
Oh planet Earth, smoke weed and ferment yeast.
Oh planet Earth, ell gee bee queue and tee.

EricHiggin said:
sundin13 said:

Things would be very different under different circumstances.

First of all, I don't really think anyone is under the impression that Trump really does much listening, or going over things with a fine-toothed comb. He seems to be either reading from a teleprompter or just kinda winging it. I think this is one of the things that makes a Trump Lie different that your typical "Politician Lie". A politician typically lies by knowing all the facts and manipulating them to say what they want them to say (through bias interpretations or misleading selection of evidence). A Trump Lie on the other hand involves him just saying something with no facts to back it up other than something he may or may not have heard somewhere over the past week or so.

Second, Trump never really admits error on his own part, so it would feel like scapegoating were he to simply blame it on someone else. A culture of accountability starts at the top, and if the people at the top are always desperately pointing fingers at others and never taking any blame, you haven't developed any accountability.

That said, if this were a normal presidency, I still believe the President should apologize, because it doesn't really matter where he got the information. He is the boss. If someone below him failed to do their job, that reflects on him as the boss and the environment he has created. He should ensure that he is backing himself up by people who he can trust to tell the truth and not simply Yes Men (another area where Trump is failing), and when a mistake is made under him, he should take credit as the head of that chain of command.

"That said, if this were a normal presidency".

This right here. It's not a typical presidency, especially when it comes to the constant bombardment against the President. He's not the only one to get heat, but he sure does get way more than what's typical, and more B.S. nonsense along with it. Two entire years of constantly being smeared as a Russian pawn, only to find out there's little to no evidence of that? At least the opposition were willing to be the grown up's and apologize when the report was finished and Trump was cleared... or did they just jump to the next smear campaign? Hmmm...

You hear a lot about what Trump should do, like maybe, not always taking all the credit. When he does do that though, it get's disregarded or is a bad thing or it's just not good enough. Why bother trying to please people who obviously can't be pleased? If you won't hold yourself to the same basic decent human standards that you ask of someone else, then don't expect other people to act on what you preach.

He was never cleared.