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Thank God that oil is safe.

https://youtu.be/rllX-DlhFIU



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Yesterday about half the remaining U.S. troops in Northern Syria fled across the border into Iraq ahead of the end of the U.S.-brokered "cease-fire" that witnessed many killings (reportedly 17 Kurdish people in one town alone, 1 invading Turkish soldier in grand total). Their departure was met with protests, some of whom took to pelting a departing U.S. convoy with rotten vegetables and stones. They specifically blame Donald Trump for this whole predicament. Here's a glimpse:

The "cease-fire" ends today, now that most of the U.S. troops have had time to get out of the way. U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!



EricHiggin said:
Machiavellian said:

The other person follow up with a metaphor and it accomplished the same thing.  You decided to poke holes in it because you saw the situation different which is why using them confuses the situation more than actually helps.  Being direct with your opinion is a much better course than trying to wrap it within a metaphor.

Even if Trump was crazy enough to believe this would alleviate impeachment pressure it actually had the opposite effect and added just another nugget to the pile of gold the Dems continue to dig up on this situation.  Hell, with him trying to have the G7 summit at his hotel at a time like this just shows an absolute dereliction of judgement on an scale probably never seen in the White House.

At least you trust Trump to always have a plan, I on the other hand do not have your faith.  Also you would be correct if you stated less world policing if not for the fact that he just moved troops from one area to another one then talked about how the Saudis are paying for it as if the US military is some type of mercenary force to be sent to the highest bidder.  I guess bringing our Troops back home is outweighed by how much money someone else is willing to offer up.

They did so likely for the same reason I eventually did. Direct wasn't getting the conversation anywhere, and so I could have just dropped it, or tried something else, as they did.

Fools Gold maybe. The Dems have a lot of what they think is armor penetrating firepower, and maybe it would be if aimed at a different tank, yet it tends to bounce off Trump most of the time for whatever reasons. Having it at his own hotel does look bad, but if it's a worthy place to have it, or the best place, then it's no different than if he wasn't Prez and they had it there. It's not like every Gov event is being held at Trump properties, because that would certainly be worthy of concern. Obama's admin let Trump redevelop the Washington Post Office, and that wasn't a problem then since Trump wasn't Prez, so for Trump Corp to get another contract like that it would look bad now, but it's not like it would actually be out of the norm.

Aren't the troops moving to join troops who are elsewhere already? Less world policing would include policing in less places across the globe. Now while I may be correct, would it be justified? Don't you think the U.S. should be remaining to help the Kurds anyway? Wouldn't that negate that point regardless?

Its not that the Dems have this armor penetrating firepower, the nation itself is increasing in support of that power.  The fact that the nation is interested more in seeing impeachment is something that cannot be ignored.  Yes, Trump has been Telfon since he started his run but there appears to be a weariness happening even within the GOP.

The problem isn't that having the G7 event at his hotel is worthy or not.  It presents a very clear look of double dealing especially if his staff that is choosing the location.  At no point did the White House present any evidence on why they choose Doral especially with the place struggling financially at this time.  It presents a chance for Foreign leaders to give away all types of gifts and money to a private company where you cannot check the books.  Every government event doesn't have to be at his location, using his private business at any time looks like a bribe.  If you have ever dealt with government business you would know this. 

I believe you do not get it.  Trump being President changes everything about how he deals with his business in office since anything that even looks like he is using the POTUS office to enrich himself goes against the constitution, no matter if its one time or a bunch of times.  His admin giving contracts to his business would get them fired in any other position in the government.  There isn't any bending of the rules here, its the type of stuff that gets you impeached and if he was stupid enough to continue down that line, it was just another nugget on the pile that even the GOP cannot ignore.

On your last paragraph, it was Trump that stated the Saudis paid for the Troops.  Its his words, so no it has the appearance that we are a mercenary force that can be paid to jump to the whims of another country instead of the interest of our own.  Less would policing doesn't mean what you think it means, if we are still deploying the same amount of troops or more whether its own area or many.  Even worst, it has the appearance that the US only cares about protecting our allies if they have enough cash unlike the Kurds and thus we will let them be slaughtered because a higher bidder paid for those troops.  Bad timing or just pure idiocy you name it but Trump continue to make bad moves, decisions or just opening his mouth at the wrong time.



The GOP has gone truly insane.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/president-trump-lynching-tweet-compares-impeachment-inquiry-to-lynch-senators-reaction-lindsey-graham/

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/466811-north-dakota-gop-state-lawmaker-shares-debunked-photo-calls-omar-an-elected



Ambassador Bill Taylor's opening statement for his testimony has been released and it is fairly crushing. I highly recommend everyone read it. There is so much in here that looks very bad for Trump and how he and his administration handle foreign policy. It confirms that requests for a quid pro quo were communicated directly to Ukrainian officials and that there is a lot of hidden strings being pulled outside of regular channels.

Please, give it a read:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/context/opening-statement-of-ambassador-william-b-taylor/6b3a6edf-f976-4081-ba7f-bce45468a3ff/



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Machiavellian said:
EricHiggin said:

They did so likely for the same reason I eventually did. Direct wasn't getting the conversation anywhere, and so I could have just dropped it, or tried something else, as they did.

Fools Gold maybe. The Dems have a lot of what they think is armor penetrating firepower, and maybe it would be if aimed at a different tank, yet it tends to bounce off Trump most of the time for whatever reasons. Having it at his own hotel does look bad, but if it's a worthy place to have it, or the best place, then it's no different than if he wasn't Prez and they had it there. It's not like every Gov event is being held at Trump properties, because that would certainly be worthy of concern. Obama's admin let Trump redevelop the Washington Post Office, and that wasn't a problem then since Trump wasn't Prez, so for Trump Corp to get another contract like that it would look bad now, but it's not like it would actually be out of the norm.

Aren't the troops moving to join troops who are elsewhere already? Less world policing would include policing in less places across the globe. Now while I may be correct, would it be justified? Don't you think the U.S. should be remaining to help the Kurds anyway? Wouldn't that negate that point regardless?

Its not that the Dems have this armor penetrating firepower, the nation itself is increasing in support of that power.  The fact that the nation is interested more in seeing impeachment is something that cannot be ignored.  Yes, Trump has been Telfon since he started his run but there appears to be a weariness happening even within the GOP.

The problem isn't that having the G7 event at his hotel is worthy or not.  It presents a very clear look of double dealing especially if his staff that is choosing the location.  At no point did the White House present any evidence on why they choose Doral especially with the place struggling financially at this time.  It presents a chance for Foreign leaders to give away all types of gifts and money to a private company where you cannot check the books.  Every government event doesn't have to be at his location, using his private business at any time looks like a bribe.  If you have ever dealt with government business you would know this. 

I believe you do not get it.  Trump being President changes everything about how he deals with his business in office since anything that even looks like he is using the POTUS office to enrich himself goes against the constitution, no matter if its one time or a bunch of times.  His admin giving contracts to his business would get them fired in any other position in the government.  There isn't any bending of the rules here, its the type of stuff that gets you impeached and if he was stupid enough to continue down that line, it was just another nugget on the pile that even the GOP cannot ignore.

On your last paragraph, it was Trump that stated the Saudis paid for the Troops.  Its his words, so no it has the appearance that we are a mercenary force that can be paid to jump to the whims of another country instead of the interest of our own.  Less would policing doesn't mean what you think it means, if we are still deploying the same amount of troops or more whether its own area or many.  Even worst, it has the appearance that the US only cares about protecting our allies if they have enough cash unlike the Kurds and thus we will let them be slaughtered because a higher bidder paid for those troops.  Bad timing or just pure idiocy you name it but Trump continue to make bad moves, decisions or just opening his mouth at the wrong time.

Like when the nation couldn't get enough of the Kav or Russia situation and wanted more? The ratings show otherwise. The MSM is always saying the nation is furious or scared or whatever, and demands answers, when in reality, the large majority of the time they don't. Plus when they do want answers, they want it in a bundle when it's actually known with a down to earth explanation. Not months or years of repeated reporting with catch phrases and opinions.

I realize the problem, and explained it already, much like what you've added. Trump being Prez really only changes how much business could go to his own. An event or job here and there wouldn't be different than before, yet wouldn't look great on him now, but shoveling a ton of business to himself constantly would obviously be a concern because he would clearly be abusing his power.

Trump could be doing what he's doing for many reasons. If it by chance has to do with appearances, then the highest bidder portion would just be an extra on the side as far as he's concerned. The problem with world policing is not that the U.S. is helping fight worldwide, it's that it seems to get into way too many conflicts that it really doesn't need to. Backing away from some of that would be part of less world policing. It's obviously not a completely fulfilled promise if it's still happening to some degree, but it would be less, especially in terms of what is seen as overall more important.

If the U.S. pulled all the troops out of S.A. and sent them to help the Kurds instead, and more serious terror attacks happened at S.A. oil facilities, leading to oil prices increasing significantly, which would the American people care about more overall? Remember, that S.A. oil backs American currency. Whether or not it looks good on the surface, shouldn't matter to the Prez, since it's their job to do what's best overall for the country. Which sometimes means making tough decisions where you will look bad one way or another.



EricHiggin said:
Machiavellian said:

Its not that the Dems have this armor penetrating firepower, the nation itself is increasing in support of that power.  The fact that the nation is interested more in seeing impeachment is something that cannot be ignored.  Yes, Trump has been Telfon since he started his run but there appears to be a weariness happening even within the GOP.

The problem isn't that having the G7 event at his hotel is worthy or not.  It presents a very clear look of double dealing especially if his staff that is choosing the location.  At no point did the White House present any evidence on why they choose Doral especially with the place struggling financially at this time.  It presents a chance for Foreign leaders to give away all types of gifts and money to a private company where you cannot check the books.  Every government event doesn't have to be at his location, using his private business at any time looks like a bribe.  If you have ever dealt with government business you would know this. 

I believe you do not get it.  Trump being President changes everything about how he deals with his business in office since anything that even looks like he is using the POTUS office to enrich himself goes against the constitution, no matter if its one time or a bunch of times.  His admin giving contracts to his business would get them fired in any other position in the government.  There isn't any bending of the rules here, its the type of stuff that gets you impeached and if he was stupid enough to continue down that line, it was just another nugget on the pile that even the GOP cannot ignore.

On your last paragraph, it was Trump that stated the Saudis paid for the Troops.  Its his words, so no it has the appearance that we are a mercenary force that can be paid to jump to the whims of another country instead of the interest of our own.  Less would policing doesn't mean what you think it means, if we are still deploying the same amount of troops or more whether its own area or many.  Even worst, it has the appearance that the US only cares about protecting our allies if they have enough cash unlike the Kurds and thus we will let them be slaughtered because a higher bidder paid for those troops.  Bad timing or just pure idiocy you name it but Trump continue to make bad moves, decisions or just opening his mouth at the wrong time.

Like when the nation couldn't get enough of the Kav or Russia situation and wanted more? The ratings show otherwise. The MSM is always saying the nation is furious or scared or whatever, and demands answers, when in reality, the large majority of the time they don't. Plus when they do want answers, they want it in a bundle when it's actually known with a down to earth explanation. Not months or years of repeated reporting with catch phrases and opinions.

I realize the problem, and explained it already, much like what you've added. Trump being Prez really only changes how much business could go to his own. An event or job here and there wouldn't be different than before, yet wouldn't look great on him now, but shoveling a ton of business to himself constantly would obviously be a concern because he would clearly be abusing his power.

Trump could be doing what he's doing for many reasons. If it by chance has to do with appearances, then the highest bidder portion would just be an extra on the side as far as he's concerned. The problem with world policing is not that the U.S. is helping fight worldwide, it's that it seems to get into way too many conflicts that it really doesn't need to. Backing away from some of that would be part of less world policing. It's obviously not a completely fulfilled promise if it's still happening to some degree, but it would be less, especially in terms of what is seen as overall more important.

If the U.S. pulled all the troops out of S.A. and sent them to help the Kurds instead, and more serious terror attacks happened at S.A. oil facilities, leading to oil prices increasing significantly, which would the American people care about more overall? Remember, that S.A. oil backs American currency. Whether or not it looks good on the surface, shouldn't matter to the Prez, since it's their job to do what's best overall for the country. Which sometimes means making tough decisions where you will look bad one way or another.

No, you still do not get it which is probably because you have never worked for a government contract.  There is no such thing as hear or there, it can never happen period.  Its like you are saying I can go to a store and take something from the counter and walk out without paying once or twice and it would be ok.  The law doesn't work like that, to deal any business to his corporations, friends or family goes against the emolument clause, no matter if its the first time or the 100th time.  You really need to stop trying to make this seem ok, no matter how many times you feel he may be crossing the line.  One time is one time to much.

As to what Trump is doing why don't we just use his own words instead of guessing.  I really do not need to try to use an hour glass to divine his intentions, I just listen to what he says.  I have no problems with pulling our troops from regions we should not be in but if all you are doing is shuffling troops from one area to the next and the reason you give is because you are getting paid to do it, doesn't really help with his stance.  Instead it gives the impression that the US is for hire.

On your last paragraph, this is a hypothetical situation you are making up.  No one asked if all the troops get pulled from Saudi.  Not only that we only had a small regiment in Syria area to begin with.  If we are not using Saudi oil, someone else would step up so I doubt that Americans will be all that choked up.  There isn't a tough decision here since there was never a need to pull Troops from Syria to go to Saudi region since we could easily just deploy more troops.

At the end of the day, you are really trying hard to find some way to make betraying allies that helped us beat down an enemy who attack us on our soil.  No matter how much HARD decisions you try to throw at this situation the fact of the matter is that we left them to die.  It will forever mar US international foreign policy and the next time we need local help in a region you can believe this will get thrown in our face every time.



sundin13 said:
Ambassador Bill Taylor's opening statement for his testimony has been released and it is fairly crushing. I highly recommend everyone read it. There is so much in here that looks very bad for Trump and how he and his administration handle foreign policy. It confirms that requests for a quid pro quo were communicated directly to Ukrainian officials and that there is a lot of hidden strings being pulled outside of regular channels.

Please, give it a read:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/context/opening-statement-of-ambassador-william-b-taylor/6b3a6edf-f976-4081-ba7f-bce45468a3ff/

As far as Impeachment is concerned, it's pretty much a done deal, the real question is what will happen when this hits the Senate.  I am very curious how the GOP will try to discredit everyone, ignore them or just say "so what".



Machiavellian said:
EricHiggin said:

Like when the nation couldn't get enough of the Kav or Russia situation and wanted more? The ratings show otherwise. The MSM is always saying the nation is furious or scared or whatever, and demands answers, when in reality, the large majority of the time they don't. Plus when they do want answers, they want it in a bundle when it's actually known with a down to earth explanation. Not months or years of repeated reporting with catch phrases and opinions.

I realize the problem, and explained it already, much like what you've added. Trump being Prez really only changes how much business could go to his own. An event or job here and there wouldn't be different than before, yet wouldn't look great on him now, but shoveling a ton of business to himself constantly would obviously be a concern because he would clearly be abusing his power.

Trump could be doing what he's doing for many reasons. If it by chance has to do with appearances, then the highest bidder portion would just be an extra on the side as far as he's concerned. The problem with world policing is not that the U.S. is helping fight worldwide, it's that it seems to get into way too many conflicts that it really doesn't need to. Backing away from some of that would be part of less world policing. It's obviously not a completely fulfilled promise if it's still happening to some degree, but it would be less, especially in terms of what is seen as overall more important.

If the U.S. pulled all the troops out of S.A. and sent them to help the Kurds instead, and more serious terror attacks happened at S.A. oil facilities, leading to oil prices increasing significantly, which would the American people care about more overall? Remember, that S.A. oil backs American currency. Whether or not it looks good on the surface, shouldn't matter to the Prez, since it's their job to do what's best overall for the country. Which sometimes means making tough decisions where you will look bad one way or another.

No, you still do not get it which is probably because you have never worked for a government contract.  There is no such thing as hear or there, it can never happen period.  Its like you are saying I can go to a store and take something from the counter and walk out without paying once or twice and it would be ok.  The law doesn't work like that, to deal any business to his corporations, friends or family goes against the emolument clause, no matter if its the first time or the 100th time.  You really need to stop trying to make this seem ok, no matter how many times you feel he may be crossing the line.  One time is one time to much.

As to what Trump is doing why don't we just use his own words instead of guessing.  I really do not need to try to use an hour glass to divine his intentions, I just listen to what he says.  I have no problems with pulling our troops from regions we should not be in but if all you are doing is shuffling troops from one area to the next and the reason you give is because you are getting paid to do it, doesn't really help with his stance.  Instead it gives the impression that the US is for hire.

On your last paragraph, this is a hypothetical situation you are making up.  No one asked if all the troops get pulled from Saudi.  Not only that we only had a small regiment in Syria area to begin with.  If we are not using Saudi oil, someone else would step up so I doubt that Americans will be all that choked up.  There isn't a tough decision here since there was never a need to pull Troops from Syria to go to Saudi region since we could easily just deploy more troops.

At the end of the day, you are really trying hard to find some way to make betraying allies that helped us beat down an enemy who attack us on our soil.  No matter how much HARD decisions you try to throw at this situation the fact of the matter is that we left them to die.  It will forever mar US international foreign policy and the next time we need local help in a region you can believe this will get thrown in our face every time.

If it can't happen then why all the smearing that Trump wants to hold the event at Doral? Are the entire MSM idiots who don't know this either? Has Trump actually held any events at his properties yet? If not, then wouldn't this also be hypothetical? Randomly walking into a store and stealing doesn't make sense. It would be ok if a family member or friend, etc, owned the store, and knew you and some friends were taking something because you were up front about it, and if it would be good relations for future business for the community. If that's not acceptable, then that's just as much their own fault for letting you all take stuff without consequence.

If you want to look at it that way that's your choice, but once you start saying let's go more specifically by what Trumps says, now you're opening an entire can of worms. Trump says all kinds of stuff and clearly for many different reasons. While sometimes his words are up front and in your face, other times they are clearly B.S, or him trolling, sometimes extremely discreetly, or many others. It could be a lot of things and nobody knows exactly the game that's being played right now, if it's even just one game. As for the U.S, is at least partially for hire, the rest of the world has thought this for a long time now, so it's nothing new, Trump just is more up front about it vs previous Presidents.

It's hypothetical but useful in making the point. You think America is going to rely on someone else to guard S.A. while that oil is backing U.S. currency? You say someone will step up and help S.A.? Well then why hasn't anyone stepped up and helped the Kurds? It's almost as if there's so much help the world doesn't know what to do with it all, and America doesn't need to worry and can go home, period. Deploying more troops to S.A, while also remaining in Syria, wouldn't be less world policing though. It would certainly look like more world policing that's for sure.

Well there's no doubt, that there are a lot more countries and people who would've liked America's help over the decades, who've paid the price and lost lives because America didn't help. There's also little doubt that one way or another, that help would have benefited America in some small way, and yet they didn't help. Maybe because it might also cause negative reactions from other countries that America has to consider? Maybe because eventually using those favors, as leverage, aren't allowed anymore, apparently? What about Hong Kong right now? Isn't America ashamed those people are crying out for your help and your basically just sitting there watching? Is it America's job to police the world? America decided not to become the new British Empire for good reason.



SpokenTruth said:

Republicans, led by Representative Matt Gaetz with Trump's acknowledgment and blessing, stormed into the Intelligence Committee’s Secure Compartmented Information Facility underneath the Capital today.  Dozens of them arrived with their cell phones on and recording.  This is a blatant violation of national security.  Every member of Congress knows the protocols and policies regarding electronics and this room.  It is a black out room designed for accessing and viewing sensitive information.  Every attendee is supposed to check in their phones and other electronics in the lobby prior to entry to prevent data from being transmitted out from potentially compromised devices. 

Why did they storm that room, you ask?  Because Gaetz and others wanted to intentionally disrupt the deposition of a pentagon official about Ukraine and foreign policy as part of the ongoing impeachment inquiries.  Depositions, testimonies and interviews are often conducted in this room for security and privacy reasons.  

These Republicans also pulled this stunt to rouse their party supporters who falsely believe these impeachment inquiries are both illegal and led by only Democrats.  I'll address these falsehoods separately: 

1). There 3 committees in Congress that are conducting these inquiries.  All 3 are bi-partisan.  Any Republican on the party that is on the committee is fully authorized to be in on the process...and they have been since the beginning.  

2. These are inquiries, not the impeachment trial itself.  It's akin to a Grand Jury for criminal cases.  Prosecutors begin their investigation with interviews, depositions, etc...all in secret prior to an actual indictment.  If the prosecutor finds during this phase that they have a solid criminal case with viable charges, then they will call for the arrest and press charges.  Then the public trial begins. The impeachment proceedings are in that same pre-trial phase.  It is not meant to be public yet as that could compromise the integrity of the case itself.  Especially since Trump has already threatened the whistleblower.

To sum up, nearly 30 Republican lawmakers violated national security at the blessing of the President to obstruct justice on the case investigating said President. 

Pretty insane but I guess it's all part of that 5D-chess or whatever that Trump plays.