Who cares if Bidden is guilty or not.  Who cares if he will answer a question or not.  Who cares period at this point in time what Bidden involvement in this situation. 

The question is if the President asked a Foreign Leader of another country to dig up dirt on a political opponent for PERSONAL gain.  Trying to spin this about Bidden is why no one believe you are really trying to do anything more than waffle the issue and deflect.  This whole dumb situation isn't about Bidden, its about the President willing to use the Office of the POTUS for personal gain and the fact that Trump even let a hint of that become an issue is why this is a big deal.

So you can continue to post all the videos you want on Bidden, but anyone with any ounce of intelligence already understands this isn't the issue and its just another deflection.  It was stupid of the President to try to use it, its even dumber for Fox news and you are insulting everyone here believing we are that simple minded.

I actually kind of beg to differ. While Trump is certainly in a sticky spot here, the issue still is absolutely about Biden as well. If it wasn't for Biden, the issue never would have occured in the first place.

Ignoring Eric's discussions about Biden is quite frankly, no different than him ignoring your issues with what Trump did. You proceed to ignore any videos he posts (apparently due to length), yet you will read 50 posts made that take just as long to read. You go on to say unless there are sources for everything, it's meaningless, yet I see a severe lack of sources in the majority of what is being posted (by either side) within this thread.

This is an overall US Politics discussion, not limited to just shitting on Trump. So I don't get why Biden can't also be discussed?

As for whether or not it makes Trump guilty or not? True, in a legal setting, Biden being innocent or guilty has no meaning whatsoever in whether or not Trump is guilty. But with how the real world actually works, a lot of people quite frankly won't give a crap if Trump is guilty if Biden is also found to be guilty.

You don't think the US has ever done illegal things to catch shitty people? Try again.

I might be dipping out of this thread permanently though.

Neither side is really willing to budge on any of the issues discussed and it just results in worthless bickering.

The majority seems to just be yet another place for people to shit on Trump, which I already see in nearly every website I visit. Can't personally stand the guy, but would rather talk about anything at all in Politics that isn't about Trump being the devil.

If you are trying to use Biden as an excuse for the actions Trump made then no, using Biden as some type of scapegoat doesn't asolve the president of his actions.  Biden can be the biggest criminal in the world and it would not make what Trump did any less relevant.

I personally am not ignoring Eric argument concerning Biden.  If he wants to argue about Biden being corrupt then that is fine.  If he wants to use it as an excuse for Trump actions then hell no, I am not buying it.  Trying to make Biden as the bigger crime is the deflection part and it makes his argument disingenuous.  If he want to make a separate issue on how corrupt Biden is then do so but not in the pretense that it makes Trump actions legit.

To your last paragraph, I totally disagree.  If anything if Biden is guilty then it just means Biden is guilty and that Trump using the President office for personal gain still would be an even worst crime.  It totally undermines the office and sends a message that the president can be bought.  There is nothing worst in US politics then the belief that a US president can be bought and will abuse the office for personal gain.  You are making very light of how bad that looks and the message it sends to the world.  At worst, it would mean outrage at both and people would and should want both to be prosecuted to the fullest of the law.

AT BOLDED:  So what you are saying is that what Trump did was for the US benefit and not himself.  Actually you would have a point if that was the case but the reason we are here is not because it was for the benefit of the US but the benefit of Trump.  This continues to be the distinction you and Eric continue to ignore and its why your arguments are hollow.

You should know by now that everyone is married to their opinion and it takes the act of GOD most times for anyone to back down.  If it's ever your goal to change someone mind based on your opinion then you are probably wasting your time.

As for Trump being the devil, isn't this pretty much every president.  When Obama was in office, I knew a lot of people that thought he was the anti christ. I personally just thought he was average.  My personal take on Trump is that he is an idiot.  Definitely not someone I would let run a business let alone the POTUS.  Either way, he has been the most fun president in years, hopefully he doesn't nuke the economy by the time he leaves office.

First, I already explained in depth why Youtube videos will largely be ignored. It isn't just about length. While the time it takes is one factor, it is also largely the type of content that is often provided and a general rule of thumb that if someone wants to make an argument, they need to start by making an argument. You are misrepresenting what I've been saying.

I also didn't say that unless there are sources for everything, it is meaningless. I don't believe that everything needs to be cited on a discussion board (though I do believe that everything should be able to be cited upon request).

You are blatantly strawmanning basically everything I've said.

To your final point, often evidence gained through illegal means is considered ineligible in court. The reason that there is so much care put into following the law with investigations is because if you break a law, you can completely destroy your own case. While I don't know if that would apply in this particular case, to encourage illegal activity in order to gain a conviction is an incredibly dangerous precedent.

I'm not really sure what this video has to do with anything, or what you are trying to say through this example....

This is why making your arguments and explaining your evidence is so important. You may know what you are trying to say, but unless you actually say it, I'm left trying to write your argument for you so I can produce a counterargument (which will likely just result in you saying "That wasn't what I was saying" and wasting everybody's time). 

What happened to racial tensions, mass shootings, white supremacy, etc, all being due to Trump, based on what he says and does? Is that a legitimate excuse or the reality of the world, or does it just apply to him or the right? Biden doesn't fall into this? Biden wouldn't have been brought into Trumps conversation with Ukraine if the apparent wrongdoing hadn't ever taken place. If Biden did do something wrong then Trump is justified in pursuing justice. If he's wrong, then it looks pretty bad on him. The fact that Joe could potentially face Trump for the Presidency, does make Trump look suspicious now, but look at everything that was thrown at Trump during his run, and he still made it through. I think I've been accused multiple times now of pointing out how Joe is guilty, when all I've been saying is it looks like he may have done something shady. Based on the last couple of years, or politics in general, why is this such a big deal? It would be one thing if all I had were my own thoughts, but I've provided sources for my reasoning, whether you agree with them or not. If you don't like them or trust them, that's fine, you're free to think that way.

I also have not said that Joe's situation clears Trump completely. What I did say, what based on the transcript, that keeps getting presented incorrectly, like Schiffs 'parody' for example in a hearing recently, is that the transcript doesn't show Trump saying anything that points towards extortion. Sure you can try and put some pieces together aside from that, but you can't directly tie that to Trump doing that for the sole purpose of helping his reelection. While I'm not saying that's complete nonsense, because he surely could be thinking that would help him on the side, again, based on all of the BS that was used against him, especially the Gov and it's use of power to put forth the steel dossier, he wouldn't be doing anything different than his predecessors, who've gotten away with it, so far anyway. Does this make it right, or ok? Not really, but if you're going to change the rules of the game when they benefit you, don't be surprised when your opponent does the same in return. A 'taste of your own medicine', usually tastes like Buckley's unfortunately. 

I chose to post videos, and that is my choice. If you don't like videos for whatever reason, then you're free to ask me to explain them. You need to take into account however, that there is nothing forcing me to do so, and if I was going to write an explanation out, even a short one, don't you think I may have done it in the first place? Now if you want to know about the video without watching it, and I won't go through it because of how long or in depth it is, then you're free to just ignore it. If it's so darn important to you, then you'll find time to watch it. Don't blame me because you can't have everything your way. I'm not a slave, and neither are you. We all have a choice.

The last video makes a bunch of points, but the main point is this:

Sundin doesn't want to watch the earlier vid and wants me to explain it, and that's seen as acceptable and legit.

Biden ducks and dodges a typical question, then flat out refuses, and it's acceptable and legit I'd assume based on the lack of outrage.

I post a vid and don't want to explain it because it's a bit long and in depth, which was the point in posting a vid, and that's unacceptable? Not to mention, worthy of being said to be wasting everyone's time and to be ignored by everyone? No outrage over that so far...

Eric continues to waste people's time, even as he complains that he doesn't want to waste his own time reading your arguments. Just pretend he doesn't exist. Of course, if no one responded to disingenuous nonsense in this thread, it would be a pretty dead thread, just people posting news about some fucked up thing that happened in the US, other people being like "yup, that's pretty fucked up" and Eric types screaming disingenuous non-arguments into the void.

Putting aside several strawmen, again, all I am asking of you is to actually make a functional argument.

As for your video, who cares that Biden doesn't answer a trite question that he's likely answered 100x before? This seems to be one of your famous metaphors that makes no sense...

You do realize the majority of your time is spent just saying everybody else is strawmanning, yet you ignore quite literally everything we say.

I don't think either of us has said Trump is...innocent. We have attempted to discuss Biden (as you have quite clearly indicated is allowed in this thread). Despite me continuing to bring the topic up, as it interests me much more (than yet another scummy illegal thing Trump did...add it to the giant list), you then proceed to bring it back to Trump...yet again.

Let's chat about something else.