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sundin13 said:

Do you similarly believe that other forms of consensual sex which utilizes unequal power dynamics such as bondage or S&M should also be outlawed?

No, but I do think that they certainly shouldn't be encouraged or promoted.

(Fun aside: you'll never guess which sex almost always winds up playing the role of sadist and which one gets to be the masochist.)



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MrWayne said:

Here lies the problem, not all sex workers are in a vulnerable mental-emotional state. If prostitution is "buying another person's body" then so is every other work. So I disagree with you both for moral and for practical reasons.

I know that world wide speaking most people would disagree with me but that's not really a argument.

Same can be said about every other work. Also if you legalise prostitution you can assure that sex workers don't have to do everything the customers want.

To your first point, whenever you have to recourse to "not all X's..." as an argument, you are clearly employing a strawman. You're highlighting possible rare exceptional cases as though they were the rule. As I have pointed out, 70 to 90% of prostituted women are sexual abuse survivors.

To your second point (the one about the nature of capitalism), there are some problems that are intrinsic to capitalist economics (which I'm also not a big fan of for those who haven't noticed), I agree, BUT, as I was pointing out to coolbeans, there is handing a random stranger a burger through a drive-through window and then there is having sex with them on their terms and their terms only. Those are very different things that carry radically different volumes of mental-emotional weight. Can you at least recognize that much?



the-pi-guy said:

That's not how it works at all. They can stop at any time.  That's legally how it works.  

If you're in the middle of sex, you are free to leave at any time.  

Someone's consent is only given in the moment.  And it can be taken away at any moment.  

What utopian alternate universe are you living in?



Jaicee said:
sundin13 said:

Do you similarly believe that other forms of consensual sex which utilizes unequal power dynamics such as bondage or S&M should also be outlawed?

No, but I do think that they certainly shouldn't be encouraged or promoted.

(Fun aside: you'll never guess which sex almost always winds up playing the role of sadist and which one gets to be the masochist.)

Do you have any research regarding your fun fact?

The small bits of information I found suggested that about 50% of the survey group participated in sadistic acts while 50% participated in masochistic acts (with some overlap). Breaking this down by gender, 69% of women said they participated in masochistic acts vs 51% of men, while 45% of women said they participated in sadistic acts compared to 53% of men. Both of those numbers are fairly similar. Further, in terms of arousal through sadomasochistic tendencies, it seems that men tend to score more highly in terms of arousal for both sadism and masochism, meaning men tend to both find more arousal in domination and being dominated.

Jaicee said:

To your first point, whenever you have to recourse to "not all X's..." as an argument, you are clearly employing a strawman. You're highlighting possible rare exceptional cases as though they were the rule. As I have pointed out, 70 to 90% of prostituted women are sexual abuse survivors.

I feel you are dragging that statistic beyond its actual use. If someone is a survivor of sexual abuse, that does not mean they cannot make decisions regarding sex. I understand where you are trying to go with this, but the comparisons aren't 1:1.



Jaicee said:
sundin13 said:

Do you similarly believe that other forms of consensual sex which utilizes unequal power dynamics such as bondage or S&M should also be outlawed?

No, but I do think that they certainly shouldn't be encouraged or promoted.

(Fun aside: you'll never guess which sex almost always winds up playing the role of sadist and which one gets to be the masochist.)

Well it certainly doesn't help that 50 shades of grey made being dominated seem like an appealing thing.  

Jaicee said:
the-pi-guy said:

That's not how it works at all. They can stop at any time.  That's legally how it works.  

If you're in the middle of sex, you are free to leave at any time.  

Someone's consent is only given in the moment.  And it can be taken away at any moment.  

What utopian alternate universe are you living in?

The real one.  Does it always work that way?  No, nothing works 100% of the time, the way it is intended.  But that it is the way it is supposed to work.  

It is a lot harder for it to work that way, where prostitution is not legal.  

A lot of what you've suggested is just as utopian.  



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Jaicee said:
MrWayne said:

Here lies the problem, not all sex workers are in a vulnerable mental-emotional state. If prostitution is "buying another person's body" then so is every other work. So I disagree with you both for moral and for practical reasons.

I know that world wide speaking most people would disagree with me but that's not really a argument.

Same can be said about every other work. Also if you legalise prostitution you can assure that sex workers don't have to do everything the customers want.

1)To your first point, whenever you have to recourse to "not all X's..." as an argument, you are clearly employing a strawman. You're highlighting possible rare exceptional cases as though they were the rule. As I have pointed out, 70 to 90% of prostituted women are sexual abuse survivors.

2)To your second point (the one about the nature of capitalism), there are some problems that are intrinsic to capitalist economics (which I'm also not a big fan of for those who haven't noticed), I agree, BUT, as I was pointing out to coolbeans, there is handing a random stranger a burger through a drive-through window and then there is having sex with them on their terms and their terms only. Those are very different things that carry radically different volumes of mental-emotional weight. Can you at least recognize that much?

1)Can you link me a study to those numbers? I'm not employing a strawman most Johns aren't sexually assaulting or raping their prostitutes they stick to what was agreed upon before the sex. Why should these people be criminalised.

2)that's the point, it's not "their terms and their terms only", law in germany says that prostitutes can stop with sex when ever they want.



sundin13 said:

Do you have any research regarding your fun fact?

The small bits of information I found suggested that about 50% of the survey group participated in sadistic acts while 50% participated in masochistic acts (with some overlap). Breaking this down by gender, 69% of women said they participated in masochistic acts vs 51% of men, while 45% of women said they participated in sadistic acts compared to 53% of men. Both of those numbers are fairly similar. Further, in terms of arousal through sadomasochistic tendencies, it seems that men tend to score more highly in terms of arousal for both sadism and masochism, meaning men tend to both find more arousal in domination and being dominated.

While those figures are more similar than what I had heard, they still bear out my point.



It's looking like Trump let Epstein die just to cover his own ass, along with the asses of other rich and powerful pedophiles.

At this point I wouldn't put it past Trump to be a heartless pedophile himself, since he's clearly not above doing a thumbs up photo op with a baby orphaned by a mass shooting, a shooting he helped happen to begin with by the way.



Some days I just blow up.

CaptainExplosion said:

It's looking like Trump let Epstein die just to cover his own ass, along with the asses of other rich and powerful pedophiles.

At this point I wouldn't put it past Trump to be a heartless pedophile himself, since he's clearly not above doing a thumbs up photo op with a baby orphaned by a mass shooting, a shooting he helped happen to begin with by the way.

there were reports of him walking into the dressing rooms of underage participants (15y and up) of beauty pagents he organized (Miss teen USA)



Lafiel said:
CaptainExplosion said:

It's looking like Trump let Epstein die just to cover his own ass, along with the asses of other rich and powerful pedophiles.

At this point I wouldn't put it past Trump to be a heartless pedophile himself, since he's clearly not above doing a thumbs up photo op with a baby orphaned by a mass shooting, a shooting he helped happen to begin with by the way.

there were reports of him walking into the dressing rooms of underage participants (15y and up) of beauty pagents he organized (Miss teen USA)

Again, not surprised. Probably plans on going to the concentration camps he set up at the boarder just to molest those kids too.



Some days I just blow up.