Quantcast
The Official US Politics OT

Forums - Politics Discussion - The Official US Politics OT

SpokenTruth said:
jason1637 said:

That's why its cringe. He's not accurately converying his point. It just comes off as an inaccurate hot take for twitter clout.

Then you miss the forest by staring at a tree.

It's a statement showing that one person desires great harm upon another person while a 3rd ignores the whole thing.  It's an allegory of our social circumstances mirroring those of Germany ~80 years ago.

Are we not seeing this very thing being played out right here in this thread?  Trump (first 3rd) wants someone to leave (second 3rd) while some in this thread imitate the Three Apes* (the final 3rd) as they ignore or rationalize away the first 3rd.

* - See no evil, here no evil, speak no evil. The willful ignorance of the indifferent.

I don't think I'm missing the point. I understand what the guy is trying to say and imply but I think he's going about it the wrong way.

Most comparisons of the US Government of 2019 to the German government of the 1930s are ridiculous because people who make these comparisons either dont understand how the government operates or are just chasing clout.

From what I've read pretty much everyone in the thread believes what Trump tweeted was bad. The argument happening is whether the tweets were racist or not. And if you look at opinion polling most Americans think Trump's tweets were bad too. 



Around the Network
jason1637 said:
SpokenTruth said:

Then you miss the forest by staring at a tree.

It's a statement showing that one person desires great harm upon another person while a 3rd ignores the whole thing.  It's an allegory of our social circumstances mirroring those of Germany ~80 years ago.

Are we not seeing this very thing being played out right here in this thread?  Trump (first 3rd) wants someone to leave (second 3rd) while some in this thread imitate the Three Apes* (the final 3rd) as they ignore or rationalize away the first 3rd.

* - See no evil, here no evil, speak no evil. The willful ignorance of the indifferent.

I don't think I'm missing the point. I understand what the guy is trying to say and imply but I think he's going about it the wrong way.

Most comparisons of the US Government of 2019 to the German government of the 1930s are ridiculous because people who make these comparisons either dont understand how the government operates or are just chasing clout.

From what I've read pretty much everyone in the thread believes what Trump tweeted was bad. The argument happening is whether the tweets were racist or not. And if you look at opinion polling most Americans think Trump's tweets were bad too. 

Which makes them fall into either the first or last third.  But you are still looking at trees because you are trying to equate poll values to the proportionality of thirds rather than seeing the thirds as merely segments of a whole.

A whole broken into 3 segments can be considered thirds even if specific values of each third are not equal.  To be frank, it is this very pedantic analysis that you are doing right now that myself and others are having with KLAMarine. And it's a coverup to give the appearance of prudent skepticism, objectivity and impartiality when it's really a guise for being in the first or last third without overtly saying it.



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

KLAMarine said:
Puppyroach said:

Why does it matter whether or not he used their name? It is equally bad to use a person´s name as a measurement of whether or not the person is an equal citizens to you or not.

Exactly, he dictates whether or not they should be in the US, therefore he is putting himself as the arbiter of who can stay, leave and return. He doesn´t understand that, as citizens, everyone is equal regardless of ethnicity, name, political affiliation and so on. The president, even a racist one, is not elevated in any way as a citizen.

Let´s look at some of his histories:

- He settled a case in the '70s where he was sued for discrimination against black Americans in a housing case.

- The Central Park 5 case where he insisted on the guilt of the black Americans, along with on Hispanic, even after a confession and conviction of a serial rapist.

- He pushed the agenda that Obama wasn´t legitimate as president based on the false assumption that he wasn´t born in the US. He has never made that assumption against a white president (not even Hillary which he loathes as a person).

- He accused the judge with a hispanic heritage of bias against him because Trump had been so hard on Mexico.

- He made this comment on immigrants from Mexico: “When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”

- He called Warren "Pocahontas" (a racist slur traditionally used against native-Americans) when she claimed (right or wrong) native-American heritage.

These are just some examples of his history with ethnicities and what he seem to view as different races (race is a difficult term to use since it has no clear definition but it is used primarily to address different ethnicities or people of a different color).

"Why does it matter whether or not he used their name?"

>Because the accusation is that he used the race of the supposed four congresswomen (which he never named in his tweets btw) to determined they didn't come from the US. I see Tlaib and I see Ilhan and I think "hmm, I wonder if they were born here in the states?"

Nothing racist about it, it's simple logic.

"It is equally bad to use a person´s name as a measurement of whether or not the person is an equal citizens to you or not."

>I don't recall Trump making any such measurement in his tweets. He said "go back, fix those problems, then return to the US."

Actually he did mention them in his tweets

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1151327083110510594?s=19

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1151451067437191168?s=19

The fact that you don't even know that is very telling, especially since it can be easily researched.

KLAMarine said:
RolStoppable said:

I concur that he is wrong. You never struck me as someone who is acting deliberate, but rather as someone who is honestly very slow on the uptake.

More like others just get ahead of themselves.

the-pi-guy said:

This is what you don't understand.  This is the whole problem: 

-You can't assume someone was from somewhere else. 

-You can't suggest they go back there.  

I don't even care at this point if you disagree that it's a problem.  But understand that those two points are in general considered to be a no-no for most people.  Especially people that were born in America and get continuously get asked where they are from, and even worse told to go back there.  

It doesn't matter if he said "come back when you've fixed those problems".  Because for him, he might as well have said "come back when hell freezes over."  And it basically would have had the same meaning to him.

"-You can't assume someone was from somewhere else."

>Sure you can: at the risk of being wrong.

"-You can't suggest they go back there."

>Why the hell not? It's a suggestion, not a command. No one is forcing anyone to go somewhere against their will.

The fact that at one of his recent rallies his supporters shouted "SEND HER BACK!" regarding Omar and Trump did nothing to stop them shows that it basically has the same meaning to him and his supporters. "Send her back" is definitely not a suggestion, it is a command.

Last edited by tsogud - on 19 July 2019

 

SpokenTruth said:
The irony of MAGA.

Trump recently said to 4 congresswomen that if they don't like current American policy, politics and circumstances they can go back to their country of origin (I'm paraphrasing, of course).

But is not the phrase Make America Great Again a statement of unhappiness with current American policy, politics and circumstances?

www.reddit.com/r/TrumpCriticizesTrump/



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

vivster said:
SpokenTruth said:
The irony of MAGA.

Trump recently said to 4 congresswomen that if they don't like current American policy, politics and circumstances they can go back to their country of origin (I'm paraphrasing, of course).

But is not the phrase Make America Great Again a statement of unhappiness with current American policy, politics and circumstances?

www.reddit.com/r/TrumpCriticizesTrump/

"Trump's Law: For every Trump quote, there is an equal and opposite Trump quote." -- Seth Meyers



Around the Network
KLAMarine said:

MrWayne said:

What do you mean? It's clearly a threat especially if you consider three things, a) Trump is the president of the United States, b) there are people who seriously want to revoke the citizenship of people like Ilhan Omar and c) there were times where certain groups(blacks and women) didn't have full citizen rights in the US.

Do you think it is ok to threaten political enemies in such a way? Would it be ok for you if what Trump said becomes reality?

"Trump is the president of the United States"

>And does that give him the power to remove someone from office or a citizen from the country?

probably not but that the country's most powerful man toying with the idea, is still problematic.

"there are people who seriously want to revoke the citizenship of people like Ilhan Omar"

>I think you need to meet special criteria to achieve that, it doesn't just happen.

yeah you would probably need a majority among the people, mighty supporters are needed to achieve that.

"there were times where certain groups(blacks and women) didn't have full citizen rights in the US"

>Well it's 2019. Let's talk 2019.

It's 2019 and Alabama made abortions basically illegal, something many people couldn't imagine happening in the 21st century. Don't take any of your rights for granted.

"Do you think it is ok to threaten political enemies in such a way?"

>No. What threat are you talking about?

A threat is a threat even if there isn't a immediate action to it.

"Would it be ok for you if what Trump said becomes reality?"

>That "progressive" congresswomen go to some country and help fix its problems? And then come back and "show how it's done"? That doesn't sound that bad. That actually sounds kinda cool.

These four women are elected for the US Congress, all they should care about are their voters and America. Why do they have to pass such an unrealistic test? If every american politician also have to be an successfull politician in a nother country than non of your politicians would be in office.

It doesn't sound that cool anymore if you think about it.

Last edited by MrWayne - on 19 July 2019

Machiavellian said:

Prejudice - a preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.

Oh goody, you were able to google up the word prejudice.  Hey, I can do the same here is another definition see if you like this one better

Racial prejudice can be defined by either making an adverse judgement or opinion based on race or having an irrational hatred or suspicion based on racial or religious group's stereotypes. Racial prejudice in society has the potential to be a damaging factor in even the most normal settings.

Leave and do good things and then come back with something useful that will be helpful? That's what prejudice people say? On Earth?

LEAVE is the first and prominent word.  Meaning that they must first abandon their post and position which they earned.  So non prejudice people tell others to go somewhere else with their ideals and make it work instead of the place they were born and raise??  You tell me how that sounds because to me we still on point as being prejudice. 

Does Trump like Germany? Does he think Germany is a better country than America and that America should implement some of it's policies?

Who cares if Trump like Germany.  No one asked him to leave America and go back there so this is very pointless.

Why would telling an American to go back to their country be prejudice if you were using reason or experience in your remark? What about the black guy and his neighborhood? Why would you tell someone to go back home for no reason whatsoever? Maybe because you're a racist or nationalist possibly?

Hmmmm, did you not just answer this question.  Why would anyone ask an American to go back to their country when their country is America.  Maybe if the individual was thinking in a racial prejudicial manner the answer bubbles up to the surface.  Did you just agree with me here.  It sure seems like it.  Thanks.

I don't agree you can necessarily be both stupid and prejudice. If someone is too stupid to know the difference between something, how can you say they are prejudice and be mad at them for that?

What???  Because someone doesn't know they are prejudice then its ok.  I have no ideal where you are going with this line of thought.

Trump isn't basing what he said on reason or experience? Sure you're not talking about some of the things said to or about Trump?

You need to dig a little more into the term prejudice then just that small definition.

Of course he is. If someone had children, and those children were clearly well off overall, and all they did was complain about how their family sucked so much, are you telling me the parents should just put up with it and accept it? I don't know about you, but I'd teach those ungrateful kids a lesson. The sooner they learn, the less harsh you'd have to be. Some people never seem to learn though...

So you are comparing these 4 congresswomen as Trump children.  I believe this analogy totally misses the mark.

He told them to leave and come back, since they are so great they will easily make another country better off than America with their idea's and can rub it in Trumps face when they return. Problem is that would never happen even if they tried and everyone knows it.

So basically you agree that what he did was insult these women.  I guess you will not admit he used racial prejudicial tone to make his point but the end result is that's exactly what he did.

I should think long and hard about Trump not telling himself to leave the country? W.T..F...?

No, you should think long and hard about the context of Trump message and how its another way he divide this nation.  Either way, I am sure you will ignore it since you favor his brand of division.

How do you know this about Epstein? You mean like if you ask God for forgiveness, that the next time you sin you're done for good? Or do you continually get the chance to confess and be forgiven, only to sin again because you are a human that makes mistakes? Now you may sin more often and be a worse human because of that overall, but it doesn't negate any good you've done. It does make it much tougher to see the person in a positive light the more serious their sins though.

Do you believe you can come to GOD and say "Look GOD, I killed this person but I also Donated to Charity"  am I still a good person.  Does the worth of one action offset another.  You still continue to leave out motive and without that very key element it changes whether something someone does that happens to be good was done for good intentions.

Thought it wasn't racist and was prejudice, and now it's a hybrid combination?

Leave is the only thing that remotely makes sense. Asking to do good and return to help doesn't. Trump didn't just say leave.

You must since you used Germany in your own scenario. Maybe you should change it like you did prejudice.

So it wasn't racist before, and only prejudice, but now it's kinda racist and kinda prejudice? What happened to Trump being a complete idiot? Sounds like you're agreeing with the possibility that he's a mastermind who's playing his opposition like a fiddle. You're welcome.

If someone is too stupid to know the difference, or know enough to take into account, whether or not someone is actually from another country or not, when telling them to go to another country, how can you call them prejudice and be mad at them for that? That's like laughing and making fun of a handicapped person for being unable to do something they can't physically do because they are physically handicapped.

The definition isn't enough to explain the meaning? The dictionary isn't enough? W.T..F...?

You wouldn't say Trump is like a father figure to the American people in a way? Lots of people seem to think so based on how important they say he is and how he needs to set a good example for the people, especially the children, much like a parent to their child. Isn't Gov just one big dysfunctional family?

He was proving a point. Trump made them look bad because they are saying their idea's could change things for the better and yet Trump doesn't agree, and since he's in power they won't be able to make the changes they want since he thinks their wrong. The only option would be to go elsewhere to do it, if they wanted it done asap, and they won't do that for many reasons, partially because it would be a nightmare to attempt in comparison to implementing it in America. That's because America isn't so bad, and yet they act like it's the worst place on Earth. He's using them against themselves to prove America is still great and that the hate they're spewing, plus the MAGA apparently meaning 'going back to a better time' spin, is all BS.

You can only lead a horse to water, you can't make it drink, especially the horses that think shoes are a right. No wonder why they are so thirsty and unhappy.

I think God would judge by adding up all the good vs the bad, taking everything into account including the severity, concluding whether you pass or fail. Which means the good you did counts, but doesn't automatically grant you a get out of jail free ticket. What's with the all or nothing? I thought you said Epstein was covering something up with a bribe? Good context but you never explained how you know that...



The Canadian National Anthem According To Justin Trudeau

 

Oh planet Earth! The home of native lands, 
True social law, in all of us demand.
With cattle farts, we view sea rise,
Our North sinking slowly.
From far and snide, oh planet Earth, 
Our healthcare is yours free!
Science save our land, harnessing the breeze,
Oh planet Earth, smoke weed and ferment yeast.
Oh planet Earth, ell gee bee queue and tee.

I think a lot of the misunderstandings come from the misconception that Donald Trump is capable of deliberate thought. If you try to make sense of the words that come out of that thing's mouth you already lost. Which is why all Trump supporters argue about semantics and never content.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

SpokenTruth said:
The irony of MAGA.

Trump recently said to 4 congresswomen that if they don't like current American policy, politics and circumstances they can go back to their country of origin (I'm paraphrasing, of course).

But is not the phrase Make America Great Again a statement of unhappiness with current American policy, politics and circumstances?

Related:

Conservatives to conservatives: if you don't like it, we will make it great again.  

Conservatives to liberals: if you don't like it, leave.

Conservatives to undocumented immigrants: why wouldn't you try fixing your country, instead of leaving it?



Trump is a terrible human being and still has supporters. His supporters openly admit that he's terrible, but they still stand by him because they say they like his policies. My message to you guys is: If you sell your soul in order to win, you've already lost.

Meaning our humanity is all we really have. If you give up that part of yourself in order to win, you've already lost something far more important. Even if you guys take over the whole world, it won't be long until you're at each other's throats.