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KLAMarine said:
MrWayne said:

I don't understand how anyone can defend Trump's remarks towards the four congress women. Even if your super conservative you have to see that Trump is attacking those women's basic citizen rights. Every citizen has the right to get involved into politics and by suggesting they should leave the country if they aren't happy with it, he's undermining this right.

How? These women are still in politics and neither a suggestion nor a tweet is going to change that.

What do you mean? It's clearly a threat especially if you consider three things, a) Trump is the president of the United States, b) there are people who seriously want to revoke the citizenship of people like Ilhan Omar and c) there were times where certain groups(blacks and women) didn't have full citizen rights in the US.

Do you think it is ok to threaten political enemies in such a way? Would it be ok for you if what Trump said becomes reality?



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As I've said previously, I think we are getting sidetracked by bickering about the President's intent, when you need to look no further than the effect to condemn his words. Asserting intent really just allows individuals a window to plead ignorance (which is really all the defense we have seen for the past ten pages)

That said, in regards to the issues within the Democratic party, there are serious concerns about the popularity of progressivism in moderate states and areas. Republicans go full on fear mongering mode whenever anything vaguely progressive is brought up, and ignorance tends to run deep. I'm curious what other left leaning individuals in this thread feel should be done regarding the progressive/moderate divide among the left.

Personally, I feel that having powerful progressive voices within the party is very important because we want a diversity of opinions and "moderate" is often just a nice way of saying "reactionary" (which isn't what the democratic party should be about). More than that, it is good to see that the democratic party is being pulled further to the left, but I do think there is a need to justify each step to the left with information and I think that is where "the squad" is largely lacking. I largely support the ideas behind their suggestions at least, but I think they are coming from this as activists more than as politicians. They are spreading the word and building excitement and demand, but they aren't really selling to those who haven't already bought a season pass so to speak. That isn't so much a criticism of them as much as a criticism of the political climate. It doesn't really leave much room for nuanced decisions when instead of honestly discussing things, one side just yells "THEY WANNA TAKE YOUR COWS".

Basically, what I'm saying is that I don't have an answer. Reactionary views will always have an upper hand because change is inherently frightening, especially when those reactionaries have no qualms about lying through their teeth. As such, progressivism is always going to be an uphill battle. We need to fight that battle surrounding policy, because fighting about personalities will never change minds and honestly, that is probably exactly what Trump wants. He wants to divide us so we don't have honest conversations.



She's running for senate in Texas in 2020.



Machiavellian said:
EricHiggin said:

Not sure what's unclear. People take many things into account when responding to another. If you don't then the conversation will get away from you.

Yes, go back to Mexico and work there, and bring back a report when you're done, that's what racist people say, ok...  If your a Mexican and work for an American company... and get told to go work at a job in Mexico, is that racist? What if the black guy lives in a mixed neighborhood? Would the white guy automatically be racist or prejudice or just stupid for assuming? Did you assume that? Trump is a businessman correct?... If any of the congresswoman were to try their idea's in another country they're from or respect, and failed, they would be seen as bad employees. See what he's doing? Trump rarely bothers killing one bird when he knows he can wait and get two or three with one throw. He even got Pelosi to go from criticizing them to backing them. Well which is it Nancy?

Yes that is what prejudice people say.  Go back to wherever you are from and since you do not understand how offensive it is, you probably think it as well.  Why don't we stop with the word racist and use the proper term that way you can stay on point.  Yes, if a white person told a black man to go back to his neighborhood he would be prejudice and stupid.  One doesn't have to be exclusive from the other.

At BOLDED: The reason that statement is totally wrong is because they are US citizens.  Just because you want to dismiss this point doesn't make your statement any better.  It would be the same as suggesting that Trump go back to Germany and institute his policy and if it is wrong he would be a bad employee.  You are not questioning Trump citizenship or him as a American but somehow just because these 4 women isn't what you view as your standard American, you make these insulting statements.  As to your last sentence, lol  I guess Trump is playing 3D chess while everyone is playing checkers.

If an American is told to go back to America, is that racist? What is America in terms of race?

If an American was in another country and was told to go back to the US it would be considered Prejudice.  As stated before, Since I never used the word racist, you can stop using that word.  I believe you know what Prejudice mean so you keep avoiding saying it because Trump statement is classic prejudice.

So is what Trump said stupid or racist or prejudice? If any of them have immigrated to America before becoming an American citizen, then what? You also realize he's criticizing them and not himself right? Why would he tell himself to leave if he thinks he's doing a good job?

What Trump said was Stupid and definitely prejudice.  Racist not so much but it has classic racial tone.  The statement has been used by racist and prejudiced people far longer than you have been on this earth.  The fact he was stupid enough to state them publicly is a statement to his character. It really doesn't matter if they were made US citizens yesterday.  They would still be US citizens and Americans.  It would be dismissive of what they went through to become citizens in the US and an insult.  Trump is criticizing their rights to their opinions and status as US congresswomen as if what they have to say is invalid.  There is no way around this very obvious fact.  He is not criticizing their policy, he is criticizing their right to even have an opinion and policy in the US.

AT BOLDED:  lol, if you knew how you just accepted that he told US citizens to leave the US and tried to normalize it you probably would have left that statement out.  You should think long and hard how that one line make you look and how you try to normalize such speech from a President who is suppose to represent all of US.

Not everyone has the same tastes. Just because I like the taste of something doesn't mean you do as well, or that you should. If I think someone dresses like a bum, should I constantly throw that in their face and call them names and put them down, or let them look like that because that's how they express themselves? Should we force people not to smoke or drink? What about banning certain speech?

OK.

Show me where Epstein did this for separate negative reasons. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. Even if he did, I'd still expect someone to point out that even though he made a significant charitable donation, which will surely be put to good use, that he's still a POS and that it doesn't make him a good person overall. That doesn't negate that he did something useful, and what minuscule respect it gives him, overall he would still be viewed as a terrible person. People aren't 100% good or evil. Everyone is a varying mixture.

Who cares if the price Epstein felt to cover his sins was to do something charitable it still wasn't a charity, it was a bribe.  That is the difference when you do something charitable seeking no gain compared wen you do something charitable seeking to gain something in return.  Still, you have made no argument on why anyone would praise him for it or respect him.  If his motives were to do it wash away his sins but he still continued to sin then it was a empty gesture.

Yes that is what prejudice people say.  Go back to wherever you are from and since you do not understand how offensive it is, you probably think it as well.  Why don't we stop with the word racist and use the proper term that way you can stay on point.  Yes, if a white person told a black man to go back to his neighborhood he would be prejudice and stupid.  One doesn't have to be exclusive from the other.

At BOLDED: The reason that statement is totally wrong is because they are US citizens.  Just because you want to dismiss this point doesn't make your statement any better.  It would be the same as suggesting that Trump go back to Germany and institute his policy and if it is wrong he would be a bad employee.  You are not questioning Trump citizenship or him as a American but somehow just because these 4 women isn't what you view as your standard American, you make these insulting statements.  As to your last sentence, lol  I guess Trump is playing 3D chess while everyone is playing checkers.

If an American was in another country and was told to go back to the US it would be considered Prejudice.  As stated before, Since I never used the word racist, you can stop using that word.  I believe you know what Prejudice mean so you keep avoiding saying it because Trump statement is classic prejudice.

What Trump said was Stupid and definitely prejudice.  Racist not so much but it has classic racial tone.  The statement has been used by racist and prejudiced people far longer than you have been on this earth.  The fact he was stupid enough to state them publicly is a statement to his character. It really doesn't matter if they were made US citizens yesterday.  They would still be US citizens and Americans.  It would be dismissive of what they went through to become citizens in the US and an insult.  Trump is criticizing their rights to their opinions and status as US congresswomen as if what they have to say is invalid.  There is no way around this very obvious fact.  He is not criticizing their policy, he is criticizing their right to even have an opinion and policy in the US.

AT BOLDED:  lol, if you knew how you just accepted that he told US citizens to leave the US and tried to normalize it you probably would have left that statement out.  You should think long and hard how that one line make you look and how you try to normalize such speech from a President who is suppose to represent all of US.

Who cares if the price Epstein felt to cover his sins was to do something charitable it still wasn't a charity, it was a bribe.  That is the difference when you do something charitable seeking no gain compared wen you do something charitable seeking to gain something in return.  Still, you have made no argument on why anyone would praise him for it or respect him.  If his motives were to do it wash away his sins but he still continued to sin then it was a empty gesture.

Prejudice - a preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.

Leave and do good things and then come back with something useful that will be helpful? That's what prejudice people say? On Earth?

Does Trump like Germany? Does he think Germany is a better country than America and that America should implement some of it's policies?

Why would telling an American to go back to their country be prejudice if you were using reason or experience in your remark? What about the black guy and his neighborhood? Why would you tell someone to go back home for no reason whatsoever? Maybe because you're a racist or nationalist possibly?

I don't agree you can necessarily be both stupid and prejudice. If someone is too stupid to know the difference between something, how can you say they are prejudice and be mad at them for that?

Trump isn't basing what he said on reason or experience? Sure you're not talking about some of the things said to or about Trump?

Of course he is. If someone had children, and those children were clearly well off overall, and all they did was complain about how their family sucked so much, are you telling me the parents should just put up with it and accept it? I don't know about you, but I'd teach those ungrateful kids a lesson. The sooner they learn, the less harsh you'd have to be. Some people never seem to learn though...

He told them to leave and come back, since they are so great they will easily make another country better off than America with their idea's and can rub it in Trumps face when they return. Problem is that would never happen even if they tried and everyone knows it.

I should think long and hard about Trump not telling himself to leave the country? W.T..F...?

How do you know this about Epstein? You mean like if you ask God for forgiveness, that the next time you sin you're done for good? Or do you continually get the chance to confess and be forgiven, only to sin again because you are a human that makes mistakes? Now you may sin more often and be a worse human because of that overall, but it doesn't negate any good you've done. It does make it much tougher to see the person in a positive light the more serious their sins though.



The Canadian National Anthem According To Justin Trudeau

 

Oh planet Earth! The home of native lands, 
True social law, in all of us demand.
With cattle farts, we view sea rise,
Our North sinking slowly.
From far and snide, oh planet Earth, 
Our healthcare is yours free!
Science save our land, harnessing the breeze,
Oh planet Earth, smoke weed and ferment yeast.
Oh planet Earth, ell gee bee queue and tee.

US destroyed an Iranian drone.
https://www.foxnews.com/world/trump-us-warship-iranian-drone-strait-hormuz



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The irony of MAGA.

Trump recently said to 4 congresswomen that if they don't like current American policy, politics and circumstances they can go back to their country of origin (I'm paraphrasing, of course).

But is not the phrase Make America Great Again a statement of unhappiness with current American policy, politics and circumstances?



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

jason1637 said:

Looks like he'll have 2020 in the bag.

I mean, it's South Carolina, if he didn't have it in the bag that'd be utterly shocking. Honestly though, it isn't that impressive. He's 20 points behind Trump with Republicans, and that's just Republicans. The guy has been licking Trump's boots for the past year and Republicans still aren't behind him? He's practically a Trump activist. A year ago he was still regularly condemning Trump and occasionally sticking up for McCain, who was hated by Republicans near his death for daring to stand against Trump. For a year to pass since then of just him defending and praising Trump, and he only gets 74% from one party, his own? That's actually pretty sad. I already thought he had South Carolina in the bag just by being Republican. Maybe he's vulnerable after all...



MrWayne said:
KLAMarine said:

How? These women are still in politics and neither a suggestion nor a tweet is going to change that.

What do you mean? It's clearly a threat especially if you consider three things, a) Trump is the president of the United States, b) there are people who seriously want to revoke the citizenship of people like Ilhan Omar and c) there were times where certain groups(blacks and women) didn't have full citizen rights in the US.

Do you think it is ok to threaten political enemies in such a way? Would it be ok for you if what Trump said becomes reality?

"Trump is the president of the United States"

>And does that give him the power to remove someone from office or a citizen from the country?

"there are people who seriously want to revoke the citizenship of people like Ilhan Omar"

>I think you need to meet special criteria to achieve that, it doesn't just happen.

"there were times where certain groups(blacks and women) didn't have full citizen rights in the US"

>Well it's 2019. Let's talk 2019.

"Do you think it is ok to threaten political enemies in such a way?"

>No. What threat are you talking about?

"Would it be ok for you if what Trump said becomes reality?"

>That "progressive" congresswomen go to some country and help fix its problems? And then come back and "show how it's done"? That doesn't sound that bad. That actually sounds kinda cool.



KLAMarine said:

MrWayne said:

What do you mean? It's clearly a threat especially if you consider three things, a) Trump is the president of the United States, b) there are people who seriously want to revoke the citizenship of people like Ilhan Omar and c) there were times where certain groups(blacks and women) didn't have full citizen rights in the US.

Do you think it is ok to threaten political enemies in such a way? Would it be ok for you if what Trump said becomes reality?

"Trump is the president of the United States"

>And does that give him the power to remove someone from office or a citizen from the country?

"there are people who seriously want to revoke the citizenship of people like Ilhan Omar"

>I think you need to meet special criteria to achieve that, it doesn't just happen.

"there were times where certain groups(blacks and women) didn't have full citizen rights in the US"

>Well it's 2019. Let's talk 2019.

"Do you think it is ok to threaten political enemies in such a way?"

>No. What threat are you talking about?

"Would it be ok for you if what Trump said becomes reality?"

>That "progressive" congresswomen go to some country and help fix its problems? And then come back and "show how it's done"? That doesn't sound that bad. That actually sounds kinda cool.

I am sure you would believe it sounds cool for "progressive" to go to some other country and help fix their problems as long as they are not trying to fix the problems within their own country.  Hell, you should be Trump tweet writer the next time.





Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."