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Forums - Politics Discussion - Official 2020 US Election: Democratic Party Discussion

tsogud said:

Joe Biden doesn't even understand the current political landscape he's in ffs... Either that or he's purposely being dishonest.

https://twitter.com/RyanLizza/status/1235348707824013314?s=19

At best, this is a token gesture by Sanders.

Plus, Sanders outspent Biden in ST 10 to 1. Bloomberg outspent Biden 100 to 1. Somehow, Biden managed to perform very well in Super Tuesday without PAC money or overwhelming billionare backing.



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Raven said:
uran10 said:

Oh wow, you mean the thing they do to every single democrat anyway? Regardless of how right wing these DINO(democrats in name only) like Biden are, they still call them socialist and communists. So please stop kidding yourself with this nonsensical talking point. Its mute. Your boy Pete literally came out on the debate stage and said this himself lol.

And again its Proven that centrist don't win Presidential races so yes, come November if Biden is the nominee, Trump will easily win re-election. But please go off, its not like this country purposely makes voting difficult and even when you vote have rampant voter suppression and voter fraud to make you feel like voting doesn't matter so yes. Blame the people who are sick and tired and have 0 faith in the system even though they want to change it, that makes all of the sense. You guys have learned literally nothing from 2016

My boy Pete? He was never my top choice in a candidate. Bernie Sanders has pretty much consistently been near the top in terms of my preferences, but I'm honestly tired of the blame game when Bernie fails to deliver as promised.

The difference between regular Democrats and Bernie is that he will be called a communist with actual sound bites to play to back it up. Do I think the attacks are fair? No. Will they happen and hold some weight because of the actual material they can show and play to support it? Absolutely.

It's proven based on one Presidential race? 2008 was a centrist win, Clinton in 1992 and 1996 was a centrist win. I'm not sure what you're talking about.

A centrist won right? How did he run his campaign again? OH YES AS A PROGRESSIVE! For the love of god look at old Obama clips. The campaign mode for this guy was so good and it had a lot of real leftist fooled until 2k12 when they saw the centrist that he was. I'm sorry but I've been saying this to haxxiy and I'll say it to you. Centrist have not won any presidential races since 2000. Obama ran as a progressive. Look back at how he spoke, and how he hit hillary. You think campaigning on ending wars and bringing troops home is Centrist cause that's progressive. You think running on covering everyone with healthcare isn't progressive. Honest to goodness god I can't sometimes.

Obama ran as a progressive, governed as a centrist. He won a super majority and what happened after he started to govern as a centrist? OH YEA, HE LOST 1000 SEATS ACROSS THE BOARD. But sure, go off on your centrism. Please, I love watching a failed experiment fail every time. Can't wait to try the same thing that cost us 4 years ago again, oh boy It'll work this time. -_-



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Mnementh said:
jason1637 said:

Leftist: Wants trump to lose in 2020.

Leftist: Does not get their primary candidate

Leftist: Constantly post negative press about the nominee

Trump wins

Lefttist: iTs ThE cEnTrIsT fAuLt

Nobody actually cares about candidates. We all care about politics. Post negative about negative politics? Hell yes. If a politician feels more inclined to address with his politics the problems of his corporate clients than the problems of the voters, then it is fair and square to criticize that. Because we want better policies.

This talk you do, only helps politicians implement hateful and hurtful policies for common people, because it denies them their right to have their own opinion on political matters.

To be quite clear here: current policies are killing people. Policies from politicians of the democratic party are killing people. And I don't exxagerate with killing, look at statistics of life expectancy in the US compared to other OECD-countries. The US falls back more every year. So yeah, democratic politicians are killing people. Especially poor people, working calls people, minority people. And you say: but the Republicans are worse. Sure, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't attack shitty policies.

What you're saying here is basically: Let's get eaten by the small shark. Everyone who fights the small shark only gets the big shark instead!

What progressives want is fleeing all sharks, democratic and republican sharks alike. I don't like it that this stance is again and again misrepresented, smeared and vilified.

If Biden becomes the nominee leftist can continue to bash him eif they want but they should understand that this bashing is helping Trump. I'm not saying you gotta back the guy fully because you might not agree with him on everything but if you're concerned about beating Trump but share negative comments and videos about the guy trying to beat Trurmp you're part of the reason he could

Mnementh said:
jason1637 said:

Does not make sense after the nominee part because the leftist candidate lost in the 2016 primary and will probably lose again so idk how centrist voters can trash the leftist when they are no longer the candidate. In Fact many centrist Democrats embraced Bernie when he started campaigning for Clinton. WHat I said happened in 2016 and is happening again in 2018. Bernie Bros are posting negative press clips of Biden and saying he wont win. This does not help Biden, in fact it makes it harder for him to win. It helps Trump.

The difference is: Bernie fans are posting stuff about Biden. The negativity towards Sanders instead comes from media and politicians. I mean, scroll a bit back and you have an example from MSNBC:

And you have this all the time. Additionally remarks from politicians, quoted by name or kept anonymous smearing Sanders. The ant-Sanders hateboys aren't using facebook and Twitter, they are using MSNBC and CNN.

So it is the purest hypocriy to BLAME Bernie-fans for bad votes, if the whole party elites all the time try to destroy party unity.

I'm not really arguing about the medias bias towards Sanders. I agree that the media has treated Sanders very poorly.

It's not fair how Sander is being treated but once the primary ended in 2016 Bernie Bros still went after Clinton on twitter and im seeing signs of that happening again.

tsogud said:

If you're an American centrist you're literally a right winger (center-right at best) by all metrics because our overton window is so skewed to the right now it's ridiculous.

All leftists want is to save the planet, guarantee healthcare as a human right (like every other sane moral country), and give disenfranchised people a voice. But nah that's too scary for American centrists they love the elites and corporations so much so they want them determining laws and policies to enrich themselves and leave the poor to die. But hey! At least you voted for someone who isn't Trump so now you can feel better about yourself and can go back to being apathetic about people suffering under our current socioeconomical system!!!

I want to save the planet but it should be done in a way that can mitigate the damage that would be caused from people losing jobs. Biden has policies for this. The EPA and the paris agreement all helped to solve this problem.

Biden has a plan that can give healthcare to those that can't afford it and to those that want to leave their providers.

The Black community who are arguably the most disenfranchised minority group want Biden to be their voice and it was shown in last nights results.



SpokenTruth said:
Raven said:

My boy Pete? He was never my top choice in a candidate. Bernie Sanders has pretty much consistently been near the top in terms of my preferences, but I'm honestly tired of the blame game when Bernie fails to deliver as promised.

The difference between regular Democrats and Bernie is that he will be called a communist with actual sound bites to play to back it up. Do I think the attacks are fair? No. Will they happen and hold some weight because of the actual material they can show and play to support it? Absolutely.

It's proven based on one Presidential race? 2008 was a centrist win, Clinton in 1992 and 1996 was a centrist win. I'm not sure what you're talking about.

Gore?  Kerry?  Hillary?  If you have to go back to 1992 and 1996 to look for centrists wins, then you've only made his point stronger.

2 out of 3 of those candidates won the popular vote, and let's not forget the electoral college favors states that have a more rural and conservative base which generally incentivizes candidates to have a more center platform so they can actually win there. If these centrist candidates weren't popular, then the voters wouldn't reflect that they were.



uran10 said:
Raven said:

My boy Pete? He was never my top choice in a candidate. Bernie Sanders has pretty much consistently been near the top in terms of my preferences, but I'm honestly tired of the blame game when Bernie fails to deliver as promised.

The difference between regular Democrats and Bernie is that he will be called a communist with actual sound bites to play to back it up. Do I think the attacks are fair? No. Will they happen and hold some weight because of the actual material they can show and play to support it? Absolutely.

It's proven based on one Presidential race? 2008 was a centrist win, Clinton in 1992 and 1996 was a centrist win. I'm not sure what you're talking about.

A centrist won right? How did he run his campaign again? OH YES AS A PROGRESSIVE! For the love of god look at old Obama clips. The campaign mode for this guy was so good and it had a lot of real leftist fooled until 2k12 when they saw the centrist that he was. I'm sorry but I've been saying this to haxxiy and I'll say it to you. Centrist have not won any presidential races since 2000. Obama ran as a progressive. Look back at how he spoke, and how he hit hillary. You think campaigning on ending wars and bringing troops home is Centrist cause that's progressive. You think running on covering everyone with healthcare isn't progressive. Honest to goodness god I can't sometimes.

Obama ran as a progressive, governed as a centrist. He won a super majority and what happened after he started to govern as a centrist? OH YEA, HE LOST 1000 SEATS ACROSS THE BOARD. But sure, go off on your centrism. Please, I love watching a failed experiment fail every time. Can't wait to try the same thing that cost us 4 years ago again, oh boy It'll work this time. -_-

He won his campaign as an optimist, which is something that isn't exclusive to progressive candidates.



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jason1637 said:
Mnementh said:

Nobody actually cares about candidates. We all care about politics. Post negative about negative politics? Hell yes. If a politician feels more inclined to address with his politics the problems of his corporate clients than the problems of the voters, then it is fair and square to criticize that. Because we want better policies.

This talk you do, only helps politicians implement hateful and hurtful policies for common people, because it denies them their right to have their own opinion on political matters.

To be quite clear here: current policies are killing people. Policies from politicians of the democratic party are killing people. And I don't exxagerate with killing, look at statistics of life expectancy in the US compared to other OECD-countries. The US falls back more every year. So yeah, democratic politicians are killing people. Especially poor people, working calls people, minority people. And you say: but the Republicans are worse. Sure, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't attack shitty policies.

What you're saying here is basically: Let's get eaten by the small shark. Everyone who fights the small shark only gets the big shark instead!

What progressives want is fleeing all sharks, democratic and republican sharks alike. I don't like it that this stance is again and again misrepresented, smeared and vilified.

If Biden becomes the nominee leftist can continue to bash him eif they want but they should understand that this bashing is helping Trump. I'm not saying you gotta back the guy fully because you might not agree with him on everything but if you're concerned about beating Trump but share negative comments and videos about the guy trying to beat Trurmp you're part of the reason he could

Mnementh said:

The difference is: Bernie fans are posting stuff about Biden. The negativity towards Sanders instead comes from media and politicians. I mean, scroll a bit back and you have an example from MSNBC:

And you have this all the time. Additionally remarks from politicians, quoted by name or kept anonymous smearing Sanders. The ant-Sanders hateboys aren't using facebook and Twitter, they are using MSNBC and CNN.

So it is the purest hypocriy to BLAME Bernie-fans for bad votes, if the whole party elites all the time try to destroy party unity.

I'm not really arguing about the medias bias towards Sanders. I agree that the media has treated Sanders very poorly.

It's not fair how Sander is being treated but once the primary ended in 2016 Bernie Bros still went after Clinton on twitter and im seeing signs of that happening again.

tsogud said:

If you're an American centrist you're literally a right winger (center-right at best) by all metrics because our overton window is so skewed to the right now it's ridiculous.

All leftists want is to save the planet, guarantee healthcare as a human right (like every other sane moral country), and give disenfranchised people a voice. But nah that's too scary for American centrists they love the elites and corporations so much so they want them determining laws and policies to enrich themselves and leave the poor to die. But hey! At least you voted for someone who isn't Trump so now you can feel better about yourself and can go back to being apathetic about people suffering under our current socioeconomical system!!!

I want to save the planet but it should be done in a way that can mitigate the damage that would be caused from people losing jobs. Biden has policies for this. The EPA and the paris agreement all helped to solve this problem.

Biden has a plan that can give healthcare to those that can't afford it and to those that want to leave their providers.

The Black community who are arguably the most disenfranchised minority group want Biden to be their voice and it was shown in last nights results.

 Buddy, we have scientist and climate change groups out there literally grading people's programs when it comes to combating climate change. Only Bernie's plan is said to be good enough by these scientist and the grades reflect that while Biden has literally gotten an F. He doesn't have a proper climate change plan and do you know why Bernie's is called the Green New deal? Do you know what the New Deal was? It created millions of jobs and this is what the GND would do. Maybe, just maybe you should read Bernie's plans



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uran10 said:
jason1637 said:

If Biden becomes the nominee leftist can continue to bash him eif they want but they should understand that this bashing is helping Trump. I'm not saying you gotta back the guy fully because you might not agree with him on everything but if you're concerned about beating Trump but share negative comments and videos about the guy trying to beat Trurmp you're part of the reason he could

I'm not really arguing about the medias bias towards Sanders. I agree that the media has treated Sanders very poorly.

It's not fair how Sander is being treated but once the primary ended in 2016 Bernie Bros still went after Clinton on twitter and im seeing signs of that happening again.

I want to save the planet but it should be done in a way that can mitigate the damage that would be caused from people losing jobs. Biden has policies for this. The EPA and the paris agreement all helped to solve this problem.

Biden has a plan that can give healthcare to those that can't afford it and to those that want to leave their providers.

The Black community who are arguably the most disenfranchised minority group want Biden to be their voice and it was shown in last nights results.

 Buddy, we have scientist and climate change groups out there literally grading people's programs when it comes to combating climate change. Only Bernie's plan is said to be good enough by these scientist and the grades reflect that while Biden has literally gotten an F. He doesn't have a proper climate change plan and do you know why Bernie's is called the Green New deal? Do you know what the New Deal was? It created millions of jobs and this is what the GND would do. Maybe, just maybe you should read Bernie's plans

Okay lets say Bernie were to get elected. There is no way in hell his budget would get passed the way he images to even have enough money to fund his Climate change proposals in the current political climate. First issue.

His job training proposal wont work because like Yang pointed out before the math shows that job training programs have a low success rate. Second issue.

Not everyone wants to be forced to give up their job and work for the government. Third issue.

Compared to Biden Bernies chances of being elected are low and the chances of him actually passing his policies are even lower.



jason1637 said:
uran10 said:

 Buddy, we have scientist and climate change groups out there literally grading people's programs when it comes to combating climate change. Only Bernie's plan is said to be good enough by these scientist and the grades reflect that while Biden has literally gotten an F. He doesn't have a proper climate change plan and do you know why Bernie's is called the Green New deal? Do you know what the New Deal was? It created millions of jobs and this is what the GND would do. Maybe, just maybe you should read Bernie's plans

Okay lets say Bernie were to get elected. There is no way in hell his budget would get passed the way he images to even have enough money to fund his Climate change proposals in the current political climate. First issue.

His job training proposal wont work because like Yang pointed out before the math shows that job training programs have a low success rate. Second issue.

Not everyone wants to be forced to give up their job and work for the government. Third issue.

Compared to Biden Bernies chances of being elected are low and the chances of him actually passing his policies are even lower.

Okay first of all, that's what taxing the rich is for, he has a page explaining how to pay for all his policies. 2nd of all, do we really have time to care about a budget when we wont have 11 years to stop climate change? Do you not realize how dire this is?

2nd of all that may be the case but I also think Bernie's job guarantee along with a UBI that wasn't trash working together is the best way to go forward and I need Bernie to be pushed on this issue. But the truth is people want to work.

3rd of all LOL. Biden has a 0% chance of beating trump. You're running hillary 2.0 while Bernie has been beating trump in 95% of the polls, probably more than that for the last 4 years. Bernie is the more electable candidate by far. Centrist take L's during presidential elections, that's not changing especially considering Joe Biden clearly has Dementia.



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SpokenTruth said:
jason1637 said:

The Black community who are arguably the most disenfranchised minority group want Biden to be their voice and it was shown in last nights results.

Didn't we also learn that the majority of them made up their mind less than 3 days before even voting?  I'm just going to leave it at that. 

Raven said:

2 out of 3 of those candidates won the popular vote, and let's not forget the electoral college favors states that have a more rural and conservative base which generally incentivizes candidates to have a more center platform so they can actually win there. If these centrist candidates weren't popular, then the voters wouldn't reflect that they were.

Did they win?  Did they become president? 

Further, you can't say centrism is popular even though they lost and yet look back to 1992 and 1996 and say they won. That same rural and conservative advantage existed back then too.

Perhaps....centrism just isn't as popular as it used to be.  Maybe, people want change.  Maybe, people want something different from 1992 and 1996. 

You conveniently skipped 2008 and by extension 2012.



jason1637 said:
Mnementh said:

Nobody actually cares about candidates. We all care about politics. Post negative about negative politics? Hell yes. If a politician feels more inclined to address with his politics the problems of his corporate clients than the problems of the voters, then it is fair and square to criticize that. Because we want better policies.

This talk you do, only helps politicians implement hateful and hurtful policies for common people, because it denies them their right to have their own opinion on political matters.

To be quite clear here: current policies are killing people. Policies from politicians of the democratic party are killing people. And I don't exxagerate with killing, look at statistics of life expectancy in the US compared to other OECD-countries. The US falls back more every year. So yeah, democratic politicians are killing people. Especially poor people, working calls people, minority people. And you say: but the Republicans are worse. Sure, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't attack shitty policies.

What you're saying here is basically: Let's get eaten by the small shark. Everyone who fights the small shark only gets the big shark instead!

What progressives want is fleeing all sharks, democratic and republican sharks alike. I don't like it that this stance is again and again misrepresented, smeared and vilified.

If Biden becomes the nominee leftist can continue to bash him eif they want but they should understand that this bashing is helping Trump. I'm not saying you gotta back the guy fully because you might not agree with him on everything but if you're concerned about beating Trump but share negative comments and videos about the guy trying to beat Trurmp you're part of the reason he could

Mnementh said:

The difference is: Bernie fans are posting stuff about Biden. The negativity towards Sanders instead comes from media and politicians. I mean, scroll a bit back and you have an example from MSNBC:

And you have this all the time. Additionally remarks from politicians, quoted by name or kept anonymous smearing Sanders. The ant-Sanders hateboys aren't using facebook and Twitter, they are using MSNBC and CNN.

So it is the purest hypocriy to BLAME Bernie-fans for bad votes, if the whole party elites all the time try to destroy party unity.

I'm not really arguing about the medias bias towards Sanders. I agree that the media has treated Sanders very poorly.

It's not fair how Sander is being treated but once the primary ended in 2016 Bernie Bros still went after Clinton on twitter and im seeing signs of that happening again.

tsogud said:

If you're an American centrist you're literally a right winger (center-right at best) by all metrics because our overton window is so skewed to the right now it's ridiculous.

All leftists want is to save the planet, guarantee healthcare as a human right (like every other sane moral country), and give disenfranchised people a voice. But nah that's too scary for American centrists they love the elites and corporations so much so they want them determining laws and policies to enrich themselves and leave the poor to die. But hey! At least you voted for someone who isn't Trump so now you can feel better about yourself and can go back to being apathetic about people suffering under our current socioeconomical system!!!

I want to save the planet but it should be done in a way that can mitigate the damage that would be caused from people losing jobs. Biden has policies for this. The EPA and the paris agreement all helped to solve this problem.

Biden has a plan that can give healthcare to those that can't afford it and to those that want to leave their providers.

The Black community who are arguably the most disenfranchised minority group want Biden to be their voice and it was shown in last nights results.

Bernie's climate plan directly addresses that issue as well and goes a step further in having a federal jobs guarantee and training for the transition off of fossil fuels.

Yes Biden's healthcare plan tries to make healthcare affordable but that's the entire problem. Healthcare should be guaranteed for all not affordable for some. That article I linked a few posts back explains the inherent problems with Biden's proposal.

The black community are split generationally with young black voters overwhelmingly supporting Bernie and older black voters overwhelmingly supporting Joe. Older black voters and older voters in general vote in larger numbers than younger voters for various socioeconomical reasons; for example there are more younger people in the workforce that have two/three jobs, younger people have the kinds of jobs that don't readily allow them to take a day or hour off to vote, etc.

Bernie's plans will lift some of the burden being felt by the younger generation specifically younger poc and that will, hopefully in turn, allow them to have the agency they need to vote and let their voice be heard.

The time for incrementalism is over, we had our chance to go as slow as we wanted to regarding climate change but our govt was too busy being bought out by special interests to care. Now we have no choice but to change drastically our way of life and thinking to even hope to save our planet from irreparable damage.

A Joe Biden presidency with his current platform would've been great progress in the 80's but it doesn't cut it now.

Last edited by tsogud - on 04 March 2020