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Official 2020 US Election: Democratic Party Discussion

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https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/11/buttigieg-iowa-warren-sanders-supporters/602098/

Interesting article.



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uran10 said:
Mnementh said:

Disappointing. So far I was very fond of Warren, now she dropped strongly in my list. I preferred Sanders before, but I thought the difference was negligible. Now it isn't.

The difference was never negligible. That's why I keep posting and highlighting the differences.They may seem small at first but they tend to add up. But its not even just that. I've been warning about this for ages and telling certain people she's not who she claims to be and every step of the way she continues to prove me right. This last week has just been her exposing herself more and more for the fauxgressive that she is. Like I said before, you can call me cynical and all but after paying attention for the past few years it feels easyish to call out whose lying and whose not. It also doesn't help that I don't listen to rhetoric but see where it goes along with actions. She's taken big money before transferred it in to this race and has said she'll take it in the general (through the dnc). So yes, not surprising and it's been hinted at all throughout the race.

Still, she is clearly preferable to most. She hasn't changed a place with anyone else, but while I saw her as close to Sanders before, I see her now as closer to the field. Still, she is clearly preferable to Mayor Pete or Kamala Harris. And surely to Biden.



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Mnementh said:
uran10 said:

The difference was never negligible. That's why I keep posting and highlighting the differences.They may seem small at first but they tend to add up. But its not even just that. I've been warning about this for ages and telling certain people she's not who she claims to be and every step of the way she continues to prove me right. This last week has just been her exposing herself more and more for the fauxgressive that she is. Like I said before, you can call me cynical and all but after paying attention for the past few years it feels easyish to call out whose lying and whose not. It also doesn't help that I don't listen to rhetoric but see where it goes along with actions. She's taken big money before transferred it in to this race and has said she'll take it in the general (through the dnc). So yes, not surprising and it's been hinted at all throughout the race.

Still, she is clearly preferable to most. She hasn't changed a place with anyone else, but while I saw her as close to Sanders before, I see her now as closer to the field. Still, she is clearly preferable to Mayor Pete or Kamala Harris. And surely to Biden.

You really can't listen to uran10 - being so obsessively fixated on Warren is more than just a little odd, to say the least. She's one of the top two progressives and is the one he is attacking by far the most.

He is either has some sort of agenda -- perhaps a paid Russian troll? Uran is a Slavic name after all. I see the sort of shit he's pulling in my own country's politics from Russian trolls.

The only alternative is that he's a fanboy who's angry that Warren is going to beat Bernie Sanders.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Jumpin said:
Mnementh said:

Still, she is clearly preferable to most. She hasn't changed a place with anyone else, but while I saw her as close to Sanders before, I see her now as closer to the field. Still, she is clearly preferable to Mayor Pete or Kamala Harris. And surely to Biden.

You really can't listen to uran10 - being so obsessively fixated on Warren is more than just a little odd, to say the least. She's one of the top two progressives and is the one he is attacking by far the most.

He is either has some sort of agenda -- perhaps a paid Russian troll? Uran is a Slavic name after all. I see the sort of shit he's pulling in my own country's politics from Russian trolls.

The only alternative is that he's a fanboy who's angry that Warren is going to beat Bernie Sanders.

LOL Did you just accuse me of being a russian troll because Warren is a fauxgressive? I made this name when I was 10 based off of sailor Uranus, please don't come with that nonsense here. And I'm not attacking Warren, I'm pointing things out THAT SHE SAYS. Its vetting and because you mr"I'm the furthest left person in this thread yet I somehow don't support the real leftist in the race" don't like it I'm either a troll or a hater. Its neither. I have standards, you meet them, I support you otherwise get out of the way of progress. Its that simple for me. You think I'm fixated on Warren? nah I call out everyone but the main difference is while Pete and Biden can't get away with their lies cause most see through them, some progressives have a soft spot for Warren so it takes a little while longer for the flaws and lies being exposed to click with them.

And let me say this, Warren wont beat bernie and if she doess happen to be the nominee, don't come crying to me when Trump gets re-elected. I have a simple request tho, instead of accusing me of being a russian troll, how about trying to disprove what I've said about Warren, oh wait, you can't. Cause I either get it straight from Warren herself or someone goes through and exposes her for the fauxgressive she is. Someone as flawed as Warren is food for trump. So kindly stop trying to throw around "red scare bait" around here.



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uran10 said:
Jumpin said:

You really can't listen to uran10 - being so obsessively fixated on Warren is more than just a little odd, to say the least. She's one of the top two progressives and is the one he is attacking by far the most.

He is either has some sort of agenda -- perhaps a paid Russian troll? Uran is a Slavic name after all. I see the sort of shit he's pulling in my own country's politics from Russian trolls.

The only alternative is that he's a fanboy who's angry that Warren is going to beat Bernie Sanders.

LOL Did you just accuse me of being a russian troll because Warren is a fauxgressive? I made this name when I was 10 based off of sailor Uranus, please don't come with that nonsense here. And I'm not attacking Warren, I'm pointing things out THAT SHE SAYS. Its vetting and because you mr"I'm the furthest left person in this thread yet I somehow don't support the real leftist in the race" don't like it I'm either a troll or a hater. Its neither. I have standards, you meet them, I support you otherwise get out of the way of progress. Its that simple for me. You think I'm fixated on Warren? nah I call out everyone but the main difference is while Pete and Biden can't get away with their lies cause most see through them, some progressives have a soft spot for Warren so it takes a little while longer for the flaws and lies being exposed to click with them.

And let me say this, Warren wont beat bernie and if she doess happen to be the nominee, don't come crying to me when Trump gets re-elected. I have a simple request tho, instead of accusing me of being a russian troll, how about trying to disprove what I've said about Warren, oh wait, you can't. Cause I either get it straight from Warren herself or someone goes through and exposes her for the fauxgressive she is. Someone as flawed as Warren is food for trump. So kindly stop trying to throw around "red scare bait" around here.

Warren won't beat Bernie? What do you want to bet?

Last edited by Moren - on 16 November 2019

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uran10 said:
Jumpin said:

You really can't listen to uran10 - being so obsessively fixated on Warren is more than just a little odd, to say the least. She's one of the top two progressives and is the one he is attacking by far the most.

He is either has some sort of agenda -- perhaps a paid Russian troll? Uran is a Slavic name after all. I see the sort of shit he's pulling in my own country's politics from Russian trolls.

The only alternative is that he's a fanboy who's angry that Warren is going to beat Bernie Sanders.

LOL Did you just accuse me of being a russian troll because Warren is a fauxgressive? I made this name when I was 10 based off of sailor Uranus, please don't come with that nonsense here. And I'm not attacking Warren, I'm pointing things out THAT SHE SAYS. Its vetting and because you mr"I'm the furthest left person in this thread yet I somehow don't support the real leftist in the race" don't like it I'm either a troll or a hater. Its neither. I have standards, you meet them, I support you otherwise get out of the way of progress. Its that simple for me. You think I'm fixated on Warren? nah I call out everyone but the main difference is while Pete and Biden can't get away with their lies cause most see through them, some progressives have a soft spot for Warren so it takes a little while longer for the flaws and lies being exposed to click with them.

And let me say this, Warren wont beat bernie and if she doess happen to be the nominee, don't come crying to me when Trump gets re-elected. I have a simple request tho, instead of accusing me of being a russian troll, how about trying to disprove what I've said about Warren, oh wait, you can't. Cause I either get it straight from Warren herself or someone goes through and exposes her for the fauxgressive she is. Someone as flawed as Warren is food for trump. So kindly stop trying to throw around "red scare bait" around here.

She's the top progressive candidate running for the Democratic nomination. You're the "fauxgressive"

And on never attacking Elizabeth Warren, do you really expect anyone to buy that crap? You've been attacking Warren with all sorts of conspiracy theory nonsense and spins for months now. It's almost comical with the volume of anti-Warren posts you have against her. You're doing it in this post while claiming you don't.

And what's this?

uran10 said:

Warren wont beat bernie and if she doess happen to be the nominee, don't come crying to me when Trump gets re-elected. I have a simple request tho, instead of accusing me of being a russian troll, how about trying to disprove what I've said about Warren, oh wait, you can't.

Really? I've called out your bullshit NUMEROUS times before. And I'll do it again right here:

On beating Bernie Sanders. She's re-taken the lead in the nationwide polls.

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/7umtlf80ov/econTabReport.pdf

Poll Date
Biden
Warren
Sanders
Buttigieg
Harris
Yang
Klobuchar
Booker
Castro
Gabbard
Steyer
Bullock
Delaney
Spread
Economist/YouGov 11/10 - 11/12 23 26 17 9 5 4 2 1 2 2 1 1 1 Warren +3

And you'll note in the breakdown that she also has a significantly lower disapproval rating than Sanders and a more comprehensive demographic approval among voters. Bernie's strength is in the 18-29 demographic, while Elizabeth Warren is strongest in 30-44 and 45-65. The 18-29 demographic consistently has a low voter turnout. On top of that, what has changed in polls lately is Elizabeth Warren has not only overtaken Sanders as the #1 second choice, but she is now a distant 1st place as the second choice. If you scroll to the "disappointed if the nominee is" section, Elizabeth Warren shows to have the second least disapproval - second only to Cory Booker. Despite Bernie Sanders having the longest-running nationwide fundraising infrastructure out of ALL the candidates (dating back to before the 2016 election), he has lost the traction he had.

And your claim that Trump will beat Warren sounds identical to what right-wing concern trolls say. And I'll point it out to you as I point it out to them: you clearly have not been paying attention exactly how unpopular Trump has been since about his third month in office. Are you ignoring the scandals he's tied up in?
The polls are unanimous on Warren vs Trump:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_warren-6251.html#polls

Poll Date Sample MoE
Warren (D)
Trump (R)
Spread
RCP Average 10/4 - 10/31 -- -- 50.4 43.1 Warren +7.3
NBC News/Wall St. Jrnl 10/27 - 10/30 720 RV 3.7 50 42 Warren +8
ABC News/Wash Post 10/27 - 10/30 876 RV 4.0 55 40 Warren +15
FOX News 10/27 - 10/30 1040 RV 3.0 46 41 Warren +5
IBD/TIPP 10/24 - 10/31 863 RV 3.5 52 44 Warren +8
Emerson 10/18 - 10/21 1000 RV 3.0 51 49 Warren +2
CNN 10/17 - 10/20 892 RV 4.0 52 44 Warren +8
SurveyUSA 10/15 - 10/16 3080 RV 2.1 48 44 Warren +4
Quinnipiac 10/4 - 10/7 1483 RV 3.1 49 41 Warren +8

It's not surprising that arguing with you very much resembles arguing with Trumpists.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Jumpin said:
Mnementh said:

Still, she is clearly preferable to most. She hasn't changed a place with anyone else, but while I saw her as close to Sanders before, I see her now as closer to the field. Still, she is clearly preferable to Mayor Pete or Kamala Harris. And surely to Biden.

You really can't listen to uran10 - being so obsessively fixated on Warren is more than just a little odd, to say the least. She's one of the top two progressives and is the one he is attacking by far the most.

He is either has some sort of agenda -- perhaps a paid Russian troll? Uran is a Slavic name after all. I see the sort of shit he's pulling in my own country's politics from Russian trolls.

The only alternative is that he's a fanboy who's angry that Warren is going to beat Bernie Sanders.

Someone pays someone to troll VGC? For what end?

And uran is a slavic name?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Ur%C3%A1n

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y%C4%B1ld%C4%B1r%C4%B1m_Uran

I think you should reign in your horses. Politics makes many people less agreeable. For a reason. Because politics has a big influence on our lifes. Someone who lost a relative because of no health insurance is probably not accepting less than Medicare for all. You don't need to dive into Clinton-crazy and see foreign influence everywhere to understand people having certain political stances.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019

Predictions: Switch / Switch vs. XB1 in the US / Three Houses first quarter

Jumpin said:
uran10 said:

LOL Did you just accuse me of being a russian troll because Warren is a fauxgressive? I made this name when I was 10 based off of sailor Uranus, please don't come with that nonsense here. And I'm not attacking Warren, I'm pointing things out THAT SHE SAYS. Its vetting and because you mr"I'm the furthest left person in this thread yet I somehow don't support the real leftist in the race" don't like it I'm either a troll or a hater. Its neither. I have standards, you meet them, I support you otherwise get out of the way of progress. Its that simple for me. You think I'm fixated on Warren? nah I call out everyone but the main difference is while Pete and Biden can't get away with their lies cause most see through them, some progressives have a soft spot for Warren so it takes a little while longer for the flaws and lies being exposed to click with them.

And let me say this, Warren wont beat bernie and if she doess happen to be the nominee, don't come crying to me when Trump gets re-elected. I have a simple request tho, instead of accusing me of being a russian troll, how about trying to disprove what I've said about Warren, oh wait, you can't. Cause I either get it straight from Warren herself or someone goes through and exposes her for the fauxgressive she is. Someone as flawed as Warren is food for trump. So kindly stop trying to throw around "red scare bait" around here.

She's the top progressive candidate running for the Democratic nomination. You're the "fauxgressive"

And on never attacking Elizabeth Warren, do you really expect anyone to buy that crap? You've been attacking Warren with all sorts of conspiracy theory nonsense and spins for months now. It's almost comical with the volume of anti-Warren posts you have against her. You're doing it in this post while claiming you don't.

And what's this?

uran10 said:

Warren wont beat bernie and if she doess happen to be the nominee, don't come crying to me when Trump gets re-elected. I have a simple request tho, instead of accusing me of being a russian troll, how about trying to disprove what I've said about Warren, oh wait, you can't.

Really? I've called out your bullshit NUMEROUS times before. And I'll do it again right here:

On beating Bernie Sanders. She's re-taken the lead in the nationwide polls.

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/7umtlf80ov/econTabReport.pdf

Poll Date
Biden
Warren
Sanders
Buttigieg
Harris
Yang
Klobuchar
Booker
Castro
Gabbard
Steyer
Bullock
Delaney
Spread
Economist/YouGov 11/10 - 11/12 23 26 17 9 5 4 2 1 2 2 1 1 1 Warren +3

And you'll note in the breakdown that she also has a significantly lower disapproval rating than Sanders and a more comprehensive demographic approval among voters. Bernie's strength is in the 18-29 demographic, while Elizabeth Warren is strongest in 30-44 and 45-65. The 18-29 demographic consistently has a low voter turnout. On top of that, what has changed in polls lately is Elizabeth Warren has not only overtaken Sanders as the #1 second choice, but she is now a distant 1st place as the second choice. If you scroll to the "disappointed if the nominee is" section, Elizabeth Warren shows to have the second least disapproval - second only to Cory Booker. Despite Bernie Sanders having the longest-running nationwide fundraising infrastructure out of ALL the candidates (dating back to before the 2016 election), he has lost the traction he had.

And your claim that Trump will beat Warren sounds identical to what right-wing concern trolls say. And I'll point it out to you as I point it out to them: you clearly have not been paying attention exactly how unpopular Trump has been since about his third month in office. Are you ignoring the scandals he's tied up in?
The polls are unanimous on Warren vs Trump:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_warren-6251.html#polls

Poll Date Sample MoE
Warren (D)
Trump (R)
Spread
RCP Average 10/4 - 10/31 -- -- 50.4 43.1 Warren +7.3
NBC News/Wall St. Jrnl 10/27 - 10/30 720 RV 3.7 50 42 Warren +8
ABC News/Wash Post 10/27 - 10/30 876 RV 4.0 55 40 Warren +15
FOX News 10/27 - 10/30 1040 RV 3.0 46 41 Warren +5
IBD/TIPP 10/24 - 10/31 863 RV 3.5 52 44 Warren +8
Emerson 10/18 - 10/21 1000 RV 3.0 51 49 Warren +2
CNN 10/17 - 10/20 892 RV 4.0 52 44 Warren +8
SurveyUSA 10/15 - 10/16 3080 RV 2.1 48 44 Warren +4
Quinnipiac 10/4 - 10/7 1483 RV 3.1 49 41 Warren +8

It's not surprising that arguing with you very much resembles arguing with Trumpists.

First of all. no one has voted yet, the polls are speculation and things can change and 2nd of all if you understand Bernie's strat you already know the polling will not represent the actual results, but that's all I'll say on polling because that's not what I was referring to when I said my points. Let me tell you something that I'm sure you already know about me, but I literally do not give a rat's *** about polling. I already went through my entire thing which is Policy. I've posted numerous things in this thread about Warren and you want to know how the responses to these usually go? in one person's case they pivot to my 2nd choice in Tulsi to point out things they disagree with in her record like that's gonna improve my view of Warren. The other thing is they pivot to polling data which like I said before I think you all put too much stock into. On top of that, If you think Warren can beat trump, good for you. post all the polls you want, I'll just go back to multiple interviews of Warren freaking out over simple questions, I'll go back to her changing her stance on Medicare for all, I'll go back to her lying about being a native american until she was almost 70. I'll go back to her lying about how her teaching job ended.

You need to understand something. Hillary was winning in the polls as well and all trump had to do was expose how terrible she is. Warren's 1 interaction with Trump had her be exposed as a liar when it comes to being a native American. On top of that what she's done in her professional life will also come back to haunt her such as helping a company that gave faulty implants out of paying women but yes, she's definitely progressive. She's definitely so progressive that she's taken big money during her senate race, trasnsfered it in to the general and acting like its entirely grassroots based. Oh let's not forget her "I'm not gonna take big money in the general but I'll raise it for the DNC who will give me, the nominee, the same big money I raised making me beholden to corporate america".

^ You see these points here? You can't refute those because they are true. All these policy and character stuff are all things she's said and done.

And another to add on to the things you can't defend or refute: She voted for Trump's military budget, the one that gave him even more money than he asked for, yet she claims she's gonna slash the military budget.

There is only 1 candidate that is in this race fighting for true single payer Medicare for all, There is only 1 candidate that wants to cancel all student debt, all medical debt. There is only 1 candidate who has never voted for any of Trump's military budgets. So please, keep on accusing me of things, and keep posting your wonderful pollng data when I'm here on policy which is what I'm always here on.

And let me say this. Trump doesn't need to win the popular vote, he just needs to win the electoral college, and polls has shown that he has a high chance of doing just that. On top of that all he'd need to do is depress the democratic vote, and with how much ammunition Warren is giving him right now and already has given him, how she crumbles under fair questions because she's not prepared or it's not part of her "plans". How her history is full of lies and her stories never stay the same. Yea, Trump will bash her over the head with this and he wont gain votes, he doesn't have to. The republican base is strong and always energized. However you need progressives to come out for the general, you need independents who are mostly progressive if you go issue by issue and ignore stupid labels like "liberal, and conservative and socialist". There's a reason progressive youtubers and others say Warren vs Trump is a vote for Trump. Its because almost everytime Warren opens her mouth she sticks her foot in it and Trump is a good debater. You guy's don't give him enough credit and he will rip her to shreds over that record of hers all the while having the general incumbent boost. Need I remind you that Bush got 8 years even though he was one of the most disliked Presidents and that Trump is actually doing fairly well in his approval rate?

AND ONE MORE THING: Since you think i'm saying conspiracy theory things (even though WARREN IS THE ONE SAYING THE THINGS I'M POSTING HERE) where is your proof that she did not take big money transfer it in and say she's going to take it in the general? Where's your proof that she hasn't pivoted on medicare for all and has gone for a public option? Where's your proof that she hasn't voted for Trump's LARGEST military budget increase? Which story is true about how she lost her teaching job? Is it false that she helped a company pay less to women who were hurt by their faulty breast implants? These are on her record, these are things she has said and done and these are the few I can think of off the top of my head, if I wanted to I could go, load up my twitter profile and scroll for every single retweet I have done where her entire record was on display. You can go back in this very same thread and find them, and look them up. Its all public knowledge. You can't refute facts Jumpin, you can't rewrite history. You can post all the polls you want but that wont change Warren's record, it wont change how she has a terrible M4a policy, how she doesn't cancel medical debt, how she leaves some of them with student debt out to dry with these means tested policies. So I'm going to say this one more time. Refute the policy, I'll wait :)

One more edit: Your ad-hominem attacks don't help you btw. I see you trying this same comparing me to trump supporters thing often, from the very first time I posted in this thread you tried to label me as some loony. You tried to say I'm in it cause of cult personality when I refuted and said its policy and its always been policy. You check my posts and 90% of them are policy. I do not care who the person is, I care about what they will do and Warren has proven to me that she's obama 2.0. A whole lot of talk and nothing else. Bernie's record spans 40 years of fighting for people and he's never pivoted that's why he's easier to trust than mrs I was a republican for 47 years of my life. Do you know what I do? Every time someone releases policy I research it and read articles about what it does and what impacts it does, I sometimes see what mike or Kyle do in their breakdowns of the policy and follow independent media who report it as it is. Warren's m4a plan is impossible to pass and hurts the middle class. That's an unfortunate truth since she's trying to stick on immigration reform among other things on it and pay for it with a head tax. Sorry but nah, not about that. Oh lord this segment was supposed to be about refuting your ad-hominem attacks and it became policy again. But that's somewhat my point here. If anyone is following a cult personality it's you. You're not even bothering to refute or digest the policy substance that is being discussed. You just immediately attack me for posting what Warren has done or said which makes absolutely 0 sense. I'm not the one doing it and with me a poor immigrant citizen of the united states having this information you can bet other camps including trump does as well. That's not how you argue, that's how you know you've lost the argument. Politics and policy are married, don't shoot the messenger :)

Last edited by uran10 - on 17 November 2019

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Would you look at this :)



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BTW, this is interesting: Cenk Uygur - cofounder of Justice Democrats - is running for CA-25, the seat Katie Hill resigned from:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_California%27s_25th_congressional_district_special_election



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019

Predictions: Switch / Switch vs. XB1 in the US / Three Houses first quarter