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Official 2020 US Election: Democratic Party Discussion

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haxxiy said:

Biden is running on more progressive policies than Obama. Let us stop with the handwringing as if the old chap is basically Hitler, shall we?

Now, on the other hand, Cruz and Rubio legitimately seemed to want the poor to die. They even made Trump look good by offering him a lane economically to the left of all that paleoconservative Tea Party nonsense.

I agree, I kind of dismiss Biden a little more than I should. He has good policy positions in many areas. He has a plan that amounts to about 1.7 trillion in green technology investments, and hopes to drive another 3.3 from the private sector (for a total of 5 trillion USD), which is really great direction for the US.

Every country in the world needs to do their part, no matter how much their industry depends on fossil fuels, and no matter how much they think they don't need to be held to the same standard because of their lower population densities and abundance of trees and it's not just the US that is guilty here *cough*Russia-Brazil-Canada-Australia*cough*.

Last edited by Jumpin - on 05 November 2019

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DarthMetalliCube said:
I just will never get the Biden support. Especially after the Ukraine scandal and creepy vids of him basically sniffing young girls. Lots of naive boomers I guess who just want a "safe" democrat. "He was Obama's VP! I know him!"

I think it's partially that, but even more so the paralyzing fear that many Democrats have of losing this election. Although this figure has diminished a bit since the summer, even today almost half of Democrats say defeating President Trump is their top voting priority and Biden always polls best against Trump in head-to-head match-ups. Also, the most recent polling I've seen indicates that Democratic voters, by about a 10-point margin, say they expect Trump to be re-elected no matter who they pick in all realism. Put all of those things together and most of Biden's unenthusiastic support can be explained right there. The theory of the case works sort of like this: 'Obama won many working class white male voters in the Midwest who subsequently voted for Trump in 2016, so maybe nominating Obama's VP, who also "sounds like a blue collar white guy", will pull that group of voters away from Trump', something like that.

It's not like we haven't seen this type of defeatist thinking envelope the Democratic Party before. 2016. 2004. 2000. And so on. Lots of the losing elections. Those are the ones where the Democrats figured they'd "play it safe" by trying to convince the country to support a candidate that even they didn't really. The Democrats usually fare better when they nominate a candidate who they actually want to vote for. I mean not always. There's nothing intrinsically magical about doing so. I mean look at the 1972 election for example! But, you know, McGovern's problem was that he was supported ONLY by the youth of the country really. (Does that remind you of anyone in this contest?) There is a Democratic candidate I can think of who many Democrats would love to vote for and also has shown the ability to generate lots of multi-generational support.

Last edited by Jaicee - on 06 November 2019

Jaicee said:
DarthMetalliCube said:
I just will never get the Biden support. Especially after the Ukraine scandal and creepy vids of him basically sniffing young girls. Lots of naive boomers I guess who just want a "safe" democrat. "He was Obama's VP! I know him!"

I think it's partially that, but even more so the paralyzing fear that many Democrats have of losing this election. Although this figure has diminished a bit since the summer, even today almost half of Democrats say defeating President Trump is their top voting priority and Biden always polls best against Trump in head-to-head match-ups. Also, the most recent polling I've seen indicates that Democratic voters, by about a 10-point margin, say they Trump to be re-elected no matter who they pick in all realism. Put all of those things together and most of Biden's unenthusiastic support can be explained right there. The theory of the case works sort of like this: 'Obama won many working class white male voters in the Midwest who subsequently voted for Trump in 2016, so maybe nominating Obama's VP, who also "sounds like a blue collar white guy", will pull that group of voters away from Trump', something like that.

It's not like we haven't seen this type of defeatist thinking envelope the Democratic Party before. 2016. 2004. 2000. And so on. Lots of the losing elections. Those are the ones where the Democrats figured they'd "play it safe" by trying to convince the country to support a candidate that even they didn't really. The Democrats usually fare better when they nominate a candidate who they actually want to vote for. I mean not always. There's nothing intrinsically magical about doing so. I mean look at the 1972 election for example! But, you know, McGovern's problem was that he was supported ONLY by the youth of the country really. (Does that remind you of anyone in this contest?) There is a Democratic candidate I can think of who many Democrats would love to vote for and also has shown the ability to generate lots of multi-generational support.

Yeah, I agree. I would add, that in pretty much every situation fear is is a very bad basis for decision-making. So instead of basing the election on fear about Trump it should be based on the vision for the future after Trump.



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Ayanna Pressley endorses Elizabeth Warren:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lHUlxBHk_w

She was the last member of the squad who hadn't endorsed a candidate yet. The other three are endorsing Bernie Sanders.



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haxxiy said:

Biden is running on more progressive policies than Obama. Let us stop with the handwringing as if the old chap is basically Hitler, shall we?

Now, on the other hand, Cruz and Rubio legitimately seemed to want the poor to die. They even made Trump look good by offering him a lane economically to the left of all that paleoconservative Tea Party nonsense.

I have a problem with the Hitler comparison as it detracts from the suffering of the people who perished under his dictatorship. 

If you ain't all in on the GND, M4A, rent control, etc. and/or want some sort of middle ground on the issues that directly and negatively effect the lives of poor individuals and the working class then yes, you do not care if we live or die. You've put profits over people. The argument of "well at least he's running a more progressive campaign than Obama" is bullshit and shows exactly how low the bar is set for some people and how far they're willing to fight for the other...

The corporatists have to be constantly dragged into caring about the poor and they're kicking and screaming the whole way.

Last edited by tsogud - on 06 November 2019

 

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Tulsi Gabbard has officially qualified for Debate 5 (Nov 20).

Pete Buttigieg, Kamala Harris and Amy Klobuchar have officially qualified for Debate 6 (Dec 19).



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

SpokenTruth said:
Tulsi Gabbard has officially qualified for Debate 5 (Nov 20).

Pete Buttigieg, Kamala Harris and Amy Klobuchar have officially qualified for Debate 6 (Dec 19).

Tulsi has made the November debate? Wow, I didn't think she would pull that off. Must've been the advertisement from Hillary Clinton. The only explanation I have. Thanks Clinton!



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Mnementh said:
SpokenTruth said:
Tulsi Gabbard has officially qualified for Debate 5 (Nov 20).

Pete Buttigieg, Kamala Harris and Amy Klobuchar have officially qualified for Debate 6 (Dec 19).

Tulsi has made the November debate? Wow, I didn't think she would pull that off. Must've been the advertisement from Hillary Clinton. The only explanation I have. Thanks Clinton!

That and Beto's exit. 



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

SpokenTruth said:
Mnementh said:

Tulsi has made the November debate? Wow, I didn't think she would pull that off. Must've been the advertisement from Hillary Clinton. The only explanation I have. Thanks Clinton!

That and Beto's exit. 

I can't see much overlap between Gabbard and Beto-supporters, but well stranger things happened. And after all, each candidate less leaves more room to breathe for the rest.

Hmm, that said, I now understand Joe Sestaks plan: he just waits until everyone else folds and therefore wins the nomination by default. Clever!



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Mnementh said:

Ayanna Pressley endorses Elizabeth Warren:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lHUlxBHk_w

She was the last member of the squad who hadn't endorsed a candidate yet. The other three are endorsing Bernie Sanders.

Well here comes Uran with a new video from The Hill explaining how Ayanna Pressley is a liar, a fraud, and a shill for big business and the military industrial complex. What do you want to bet? I have no money to spare, but it's not as though making such a bet would constitute a risk and there are so few sure ways of making a buck these days.