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Jaicee said:

It's now been long enough since the last debate that we can begin to assess the impact. Here's the current Real Clear Politics average of the seven most recent national polls, all of which were conducted between October 21st and the end of the month; that ten-day period:

Biden: 29.1%
Warren: 20.3%
Sanders: 17.1%
Buttigieg: 7.1%
Others: Under 4%

This last summer, I audaciously went ahead and proclaimed Joe Biden the eventual winner of this nominating contest. That prediction still stands, and I think here you can see why that is. Biden is among the least favorable options in my opinion, but let's be honest: he's coasting to victory with minimal effort here. He's basically not campaigning. He was largely ignored in the last debate. You get the picture. He doesn't even have to try. In fact, the evidence so far indicates that trying is bad for him. More exposure = drop in the polls. Avoiding the limelight appears to be a smart strategy for him.

I got a little big hopeful for just a minute in this campaign there in early October when Warren momentarily overtook Biden in the polls, but we can now see the Warren fad is coming to an end and we're rapidly getting right back to normal. It's clear that Warren's inability to be clear about her plan to fund a single-payer health care system in the last debate damaged her badly. She had at one point been at 26.6% in this same average of polls, slightly ahead of Biden.

Addressing her main shortcoming in the last debate, Warren has recently released her plan to fund her Medicare-for-All system. And the bottom line is that she manages to avoid proposing any new taxation of middle-income Americans, notably in contrast to Bernie Sanders' funding plan, which includes a bit of a payroll tax hike for those making more than $29,000 a year. (Told you that's what she would do, by the way.) This gives her an answer to that crucial query that plagued her in the last debate, and a pretty good one all in all. This financing plan will probably have broader appeal than that of Bernie Sanders, which will only appeal to low-income Americans really. Still, it will be some time yet before she'll have the opportunity to present this plan to millions of Americans on a debate stage. We'll see I think after the next debate if this added dose of clarity makes a difference for her. Maybe. We'll see.

Really though, I think Biden's got the race in the bag. That one blip on the radar that briefly had me believing that maybe, maybe this race could be won by a progressive afterall notwithstanding, this is a downright boring nominating contest with an uninspiring, teflon frontrunner who can't be damaged and can't be beaten.

If I *had* to bet money today on who the winner will be, I'd put it into Warren, and I think, despite everything people say, it will come down to Iowa.

If Biden ends distant third, or even fourth, as some polls suggest, and Warren finishes first as is widely expected, the news will slam Biden and a lot of confidence will be lost in his candidacy.

If Biden finishes a close second (as other polls expect), he can probably still tout the electability argument and maintain momentum going forward.

Another question mark: Pete. He's not going to win the nomination. But he will have a significant presence in Iowa. Whether he builds his base from potential Biden voters or Warren voters will matter. That's a point that will tip the results and the ensuing conversation.



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Jaicee said:

It's now been long enough since the last debate that we can begin to assess the impact. Here's the current Real Clear Politics average of the seven most recent national polls, all of which were conducted between October 21st and the end of the month; that ten-day period:

Biden: 29.1%
Warren: 20.3%
Sanders: 17.1%
Buttigieg: 7.1%
Others: Under 4%

As it stands my assumption that a Warren-Sanders team beats Biden still stands. Together they have a lot more than Biden and Biden is still far away from the 50% he needs. If Warren and Sanders would be candidates, that I aren't assume are banding together, then yes, I would agree. But as it stands I see them work together, and as long Biden cannot clinch the nomination with his delegates alone, they together will overtake him.

Also, Biden looks really weak in Iowa. He is only third after Warren and Buttigieg, and at the same level as Sanders. An early decisive loss can put a big dent in the campaign.

I don't think this is over.



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Jaicee said:

It's now been long enough since the last debate that we can begin to assess the impact. Here's the current Real Clear Politics average of the seven most recent national polls, all of which were conducted between October 21st and the end of the month; that ten-day period:

Biden: 29.1%
Warren: 20.3%
Sanders: 17.1%
Buttigieg: 7.1%
Others: Under 4%

This last summer, I audaciously went ahead and proclaimed Joe Biden the eventual winner of this nominating contest. That prediction still stands, and I think here you can see why that is. Biden is among the least favorable options in my opinion, but let's be honest: he's coasting to victory with minimal effort here. He's basically not campaigning. He was largely ignored in the last debate. You get the picture. He doesn't even have to try. In fact, the evidence so far indicates that trying is bad for him. More exposure = drop in the polls. Avoiding the limelight appears to be a smart strategy for him.

I got a little big hopeful for just a minute in this campaign there in early October when Warren momentarily overtook Biden in the polls, but we can now see the Warren fad is coming to an end and we're rapidly getting right back to normal. It's clear that Warren's inability to be clear about her plan to fund a single-payer health care system in the last debate damaged her badly. She had at one point been at 26.6% in this same average of polls, slightly ahead of Biden.

Addressing her main shortcoming in the last debate, Warren has recently released her plan to fund her Medicare-for-All system. And the bottom line is that she manages to avoid proposing any new taxation of middle-income Americans, notably in contrast to Bernie Sanders' funding plan, which includes a bit of a payroll tax hike for those making more than $29,000 a year. (Told you that's what she would do, by the way.) This gives her an answer to that crucial query that plagued her in the last debate, and a pretty good one all in all. This financing plan will probably have broader appeal than that of Bernie Sanders, which will only appeal to low-income Americans really. Still, it will be some time yet before she'll have the opportunity to present this plan to millions of Americans on a debate stage. We'll see I think after the next debate if this added dose of clarity makes a difference for her. Maybe. We'll see.

Really though, I think Biden's got the race in the bag. That one blip on the radar that briefly had me believing that maybe, maybe this race could be won by a progressive afterall notwithstanding, this is a downright boring nominating contest with an uninspiring, teflon frontrunner who can't be damaged and can't be beaten.

I still think that you're counting Warren out way too soon. What's more, look past the national numbers, it's getting increasingly likely that Biden will not win any of the early states, getting beaten by Warren and sometimes Sanders, and even Buttigieg gets in on it. Plus, he's running low on money, meaning he won't be able to do many ads, at least not compared to his rivals. This might hurt him very much when the battle for the votes in the respective states heats up.

Biden's trajectory is down, it's just a light slope, not a big drop. His strength lies in the southern states, where he will win many delegates, no doubt about that. But anywhere else his competitors are either very close or have past him already. His campaign also seems to be slowly bleeding black votes: He had over 2/3rd of those votes half a year ago, but now that dropped to slightly below 50%. If this continues then his main support will be the boomers and late X-ers, not black voters anymore.



On another note, I would be interesting to know who those former Beto voters will vote for now.

And speaking of former candidates, I expect Bennet, Bullock, Booker and Williamson to drop out next. Booker and Williamson are running low on money and neither of them can hope to qualify for the next debates and would do better running for other things, like a senate seat for instance...



Jaicee said:

It's now been long enough since the last debate that we can begin to assess the impact. Here's the current Real Clear Politics average of the seven most recent national polls, all of which were conducted between October 21st and the end of the month; that ten-day period:

Biden: 29.1%
Warren: 20.3%
Sanders: 17.1%
Buttigieg: 7.1%
Others: Under 4%

This last summer, I audaciously went ahead and proclaimed Joe Biden the eventual winner of this nominating contest. That prediction still stands, and I think here you can see why that is. Biden is among the least favorable options in my opinion, but let's be honest: he's coasting to victory with minimal effort here. He's basically not campaigning. He was largely ignored in the last debate. You get the picture. He doesn't even have to try. In fact, the evidence so far indicates that trying is bad for him. More exposure = drop in the polls. Avoiding the limelight appears to be a smart strategy for him.

I got a little big hopeful for just a minute in this campaign there in early October when Warren momentarily overtook Biden in the polls, but we can now see the Warren fad is coming to an end and we're rapidly getting right back to normal. It's clear that Warren's inability to be clear about her plan to fund a single-payer health care system in the last debate damaged her badly. She had at one point been at 26.6% in this same average of polls, slightly ahead of Biden.

Addressing her main shortcoming in the last debate, Warren has recently released her plan to fund her Medicare-for-All system. And the bottom line is that she manages to avoid proposing any new taxation of middle-income Americans, notably in contrast to Bernie Sanders' funding plan, which includes a bit of a payroll tax hike for those making more than $29,000 a year. (Told you that's what she would do, by the way.) This gives her an answer to that crucial query that plagued her in the last debate, and a pretty good one all in all. This financing plan will probably have broader appeal than that of Bernie Sanders, which will only appeal to low-income Americans really. Still, it will be some time yet before she'll have the opportunity to present this plan to millions of Americans on a debate stage. We'll see I think after the next debate if this added dose of clarity makes a difference for her. Maybe. We'll see.

Really though, I think Biden's got the race in the bag. That one blip on the radar that briefly had me believing that maybe, maybe this race could be won by a progressive afterall notwithstanding, this is a downright boring nominating contest with an uninspiring, teflon frontrunner who can't be damaged and can't be beaten.

I think you're being far too kind to the Bernie or Bust bunch. The heavy anti-Warren campaign they have been waging is disappointing and ridiculous to see. It's sad to see the self-destruction of the left in the US once again.

On the bright side, Biden is pushing for environmental policies that will involve about 5 trillion USD over the next decade, 1.7 from the government and 3.3 from the private sector. I'm a Green Party guy myself, but in the US system, the Green Party is essentially a faction within the Democratic Party while the actual party that calls themselves the Green Party in the US is more or less a distraction which is actually counterproductive in the winner take all system employed by the US.

Last edited by Jumpin - on 03 November 2019

I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

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Bofferbrauer2 said:
On another note, I would be interesting to know who those former Beto voters will vote for now.

And speaking of former candidates, I expect Bennet, Bullock, Booker and Williamson to drop out next. Booker and Williamson are running low on money and neither of them can hope to qualify for the next debates and would do better running for other things, like a senate seat for instance...

Probably Castro or Warren.



Jaicee said:

It's now been long enough since the last debate that we can begin to assess the impact. Here's the current Real Clear Politics average of the seven most recent national polls, all of which were conducted between October 21st and the end of the month; that ten-day period:

Biden: 29.1%
Warren: 20.3%
Sanders: 17.1%
Buttigieg: 7.1%
Others: Under 4%

This last summer, I audaciously went ahead and proclaimed Joe Biden the eventual winner of this nominating contest. That prediction still stands, and I think here you can see why that is. Biden is among the least favorable options in my opinion, but let's be honest: he's coasting to victory with minimal effort here. He's basically not campaigning. He was largely ignored in the last debate. You get the picture. He doesn't even have to try. In fact, the evidence so far indicates that trying is bad for him. More exposure = drop in the polls. Avoiding the limelight appears to be a smart strategy for him.

I got a little big hopeful for just a minute in this campaign there in early October when Warren momentarily overtook Biden in the polls, but we can now see the Warren fad is coming to an end and we're rapidly getting right back to normal. It's clear that Warren's inability to be clear about her plan to fund a single-payer health care system in the last debate damaged her badly. She had at one point been at 26.6% in this same average of polls, slightly ahead of Biden.

Addressing her main shortcoming in the last debate, Warren has recently released her plan to fund her Medicare-for-All system. And the bottom line is that she manages to avoid proposing any new taxation of middle-income Americans, notably in contrast to Bernie Sanders' funding plan, which includes a bit of a payroll tax hike for those making more than $29,000 a year. (Told you that's what she would do, by the way.) This gives her an answer to that crucial query that plagued her in the last debate, and a pretty good one all in all. This financing plan will probably have broader appeal than that of Bernie Sanders, which will only appeal to low-income Americans really. Still, it will be some time yet before she'll have the opportunity to present this plan to millions of Americans on a debate stage. We'll see I think after the next debate if this added dose of clarity makes a difference for her. Maybe. We'll see.

Really though, I think Biden's got the race in the bag. That one blip on the radar that briefly had me believing that maybe, maybe this race could be won by a progressive afterall notwithstanding, this is a downright boring nominating contest with an uninspiring, teflon frontrunner who can't be damaged and can't be beaten.

Eh, I think Warren is still in the best position to take this. She's doing extremely well in early states, which will change the race in her favor come super Tuesday if she keeps it up. Also she has fixed a lot of the things people had against her throughout the campaign. Her plan to fund M4A will go over well with a lot of people and I could see it even push Bernie to co-opt it. Biden has nothing, he's hit his ceiling and is slowly losing votes to Warren, Sanders and even Buttigieg. As long as Warren and Sanders work together and keep it up Biden will continue to do poorly in early states which will be disastrous for him. The race is far from over.



 

Oof. Brace for impact, folks. Brace for impact.

Disclaimer: all three match or exceed Clinton's numbers with White voters, but they're underperforming Clinton with minorities, probably due to undecideds (I would hope, at least). Except for Biden, this effect is enough to make Warren and Sanders underperform Clinton's totals even though they are overperforming her numbers among Whites.

Last edited by haxxiy - on 04 November 2019

 

 

 

 

 

I just will never get the Biden support. Especially after the Ukraine scandal and creepy vids of him basically sniffing young girls. Lots of naive boomers I guess who just want a "safe" democrat. "He was Obama's VP! I know him!"



 

"We hold these truths to be self-evident - all men and women created by the, go-you know.. you know the thing!" - Joe Biden

haxxiy said:

Oof. Brace for impact, folks. Brace for impact.

Disclaimer: all three match or exceed Clinton's numbers with White voters, but they're underperforming Clinton with minorities, probably due to undecideds (I would hope, at least). Except for Biden, this effect is enough to make Warren and Sanders underperform Clinton's totals even though they are overperforming her numbers among Whites.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/should-we-take-these-early-general-election-polls-seriously-no/

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/dont-use-general-election-polls-to-try-to-predict-the-primaries/



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