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Forums - Politics Discussion - Official 2020 US Election: Democratic Party Discussion

Bofferbrauer2 said:
HylianSwordsman said:

Fair enough. Honestly though, I'm sincerely beginning to think that there are essentially 3 candidates that are truly major candidates with a genuine chance to win. Biden, because he's a poll frontrunner and will have the backing of the establishment, Bernie, because he's right behind and has the biggest portion of the progressive grass roots by far and will probably be the consensus progressive pick in the end, and Kamala Harris, because if Biden flames out with a series of gaffes, Harris is the de facto inheritor of establishment support, because she's acceptable to them but also has some credibility with the progressive grassroots, and thus will be seen as the unity candidate by the establishment, whether she deserves that or not. If anyone other than those three end up winning, it will be because one of the candidates knocked one of the three I listed from that role of the centrist establishment pick, the progressive grassroots pick, or the establishment backup unity pick. Of those, Harris is the most likely to change as she could easily be uprooted by Beto and her star already looks to be waning, though the California primary will give her a last chance. Bernie could possibly lose the progressive pick, but I don't see that happening, his lead is just too strong. Biden definitely won't, because if he goes under, the centrists have no one else with the necessary star power to win, so they'd move to the back up unity candidate and then that candidate would be much more likely to win.

I might throw in Buttigieg, who seems to mark points from every category and issue but each of those have another one as their champion right now. That makes Buttigieg very dangerous for the others as he can get voters from everybody who flames out, thus gaining the most in the long run when more and more candidates are folding.

I'm telling you now, dude, Buttigieg will flame out. He's a small town mayor. He's not going to become president. Buttigieg might at best usurp Harris' spot. Beto's star is already fading with progressives, so Buttigieg could surpass both him and Harris. However, if he flames out too, it'll be Biden and Bernie, until Biden flames out, at which point the establishment will pick a backup to support and put their weight behind them. If that happens, the establishment will almost certainly not pick Buttigieg. They value experience and connections, and throwing identity politics bones to whatever block of the electorate they feel they need to shore up. Buttigieg lacks experience most definitely, is forming a lot of connections with this campaign but isn't really there yet on that front either, and the LGBTQ community is not a demographic they're worried about, nor are they particularly numerous. They'd much rather pick a Latino or black candidate, and preferably a woman of color, as they view that as the biggest chance to drive turnout with identity politics. Hence why Harris is the top pick. Beto is somewhat valued because of his connections to Latinos, but he's not their first choice for a Biden backup. He does have the advantage of having midwestern white appeal, which some of the establishment want to win back Trump voters. Buttigieg has this strength too, but you should be able to see by their first pick being Biden that the most important things to the establishment are experience and connections, which would place their preferred order as Biden->Harris->Beto->Buttigieg, based on who currently looks to have any chance. But they'd much rather have several other choices before Buttigieg if they could, including Castro, Booker, Gillibrand, and Klobuchar before they'd actually pick Buttigieg on a level playing field of popular support. As for progressive grassroots, Buttigieg is on the rise with them, but not at Bernie's expense so far, and likely he'll flame out before Bernie does.



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I think they'll gonna need a bigger stage to fit them all for the debates. 21 candidates and counting... did it anytime in history even come close to that many?



SpokenTruth said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:
I think they'll gonna need a bigger stage to fit them all for the debates. 21 candidates and counting... did it anytime in history even come close to that many?

Check the end of my first post.  I explain how the first 2 debates will operate with so many candidates.

Still, even 20 is a huge amount of candidates if they all fit the bill until then.



I see at the start people talking about Beto and he basically lied by including funds for if he is accepted which he started collecting early. Plus he has much more corporate donations. Bernie has 0 corporate donations and an act of 20 dollars I think. That's what counts, not the net sum. Now Pete seems to b the hero of the Democrats who'll save them from Bernie and he's having secret meetings with Nancy and schumer to discuss how to stop Bernie. But they'll abandon him now that Biden is there. We just need to be careful they don't screw over Bernie like the last primaries. And man Biden has been on the wrong side of history multiple times, often exactly the opposite position of Bernie. Pete is a slimy traditional politician.
There are so many that I can't keep up. Honestly the only people I know with actual policy are Bernie, Warren, Yang, Gabbard and gravel. Harris is too confused to give actual policy and she'll think about a lot of things. Gravel just wants to get to the debates so he can talk about stoping war, helping the US citizens, the corruption of democrats and republicans and will then step down and support Bernie. Tulsi wants to stop all the war mongering. This is the first time in my life I have that the new president won't kill innocent people on other countries in unnecessary wars and won't commit acts that can be considered war crimes or crimes against humanity. But Biden, Warren, Pete especially, Beto and many others will continue the war mongering like all Dem and republican presidents have for decades. Vote Bernie, Tulsi or Yang if you want the wars to stop, especially Tulsi. Vote for her for a robust foreign policy. Vote for Bernie or Yang for a robust domestic policy. Donate to gravel so he can bring important issues into the limelight in the debates. And keep an eye that they don't screw any of the candidates over for their poster boys like Biden or Pete.



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

HylianSwordsman said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

Some will do for sure. Gravel for instance already announced that he will quit after the debates, being just in it to shake them up and advance progressive ideas.

Not everybody is in it to win the race.

Ugh, really? Why Gravel? I'd rather have him stay than Gabbard. He's basically everything I like about Gabbard with none of the creepy authoritarian loving baggage, proof that there are better options out there for you if her brand of anti-establishment pro-peace progressivism is what you want. Also he's growing a lot in support and will probably make the debates. He's my number 3 right now.

Tulsi doesn't love authoritarians or authoritarianism. That's just hit pieces against her. She spoke with Assad for peace purposes which I would expect from a decent leader of any country. Don't you wish Obama did that instead of bombing the shit out of them? Or Trump does it now? The US establishment loves war and the best candidate to stop that is Gabbard. Gravel might not live through his presidency. If you have genuine grievances regarding her like her weak domestic policy stances than sure, but to highlight stuff that the opposition uses as hit pieces or propaganda is not really befitting here. All the baggage she has is artificially created by a war loving propaganda machine working against peace loving people.



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

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Eagle367 said:
HylianSwordsman said:

Ugh, really? Why Gravel? I'd rather have him stay than Gabbard. He's basically everything I like about Gabbard with none of the creepy authoritarian loving baggage, proof that there are better options out there for you if her brand of anti-establishment pro-peace progressivism is what you want. Also he's growing a lot in support and will probably make the debates. He's my number 3 right now.

Tulsi doesn't love authoritarians or authoritarianism. That's just hit pieces against her. She spoke with Assad for peace purposes which I would expect from a decent leader of any country. Don't you wish Obama did that instead of bombing the shit out of them? Or Trump does it now? The US establishment loves war and the best candidate to stop that is Gabbard. Gravel might not live through his presidency. If you have genuine grievances regarding her like her weak domestic policy stances than sure, but to highlight stuff that the opposition uses as hit pieces or propaganda is not really befitting here. All the baggage she has is artificially created by a war loving propaganda machine working against peace loving people.

Her fucking campaign website praises the dictator of Egypt. I'm not rehashing this again. She loves authoritarians and I don't trust her. I seriously would vote Biden first.



SpokenTruth said:
HylianSwordsman said:

Her fucking campaign website praises the dictator of Egypt. I'm not rehashing this again. She loves authoritarians and I don't trust her. I seriously would vote Biden first.

https://www.tulsi2020.com/

I don't see anything about Egypt.  Where is it on the site?

https://gabbard.house.gov/news/press-releases/photos-rep-tulsi-gabbard-meets-egypt-president-el-sisi-and-other-leaders-cairo

Sorry, not the campaign website. Her house of representatives website.



HylianSwordsman said:
SpokenTruth said:

https://www.tulsi2020.com/

I don't see anything about Egypt.  Where is it on the site?

https://gabbard.house.gov/news/press-releases/photos-rep-tulsi-gabbard-meets-egypt-president-el-sisi-and-other-leaders-cairo

Sorry, not the campaign website. Her house of representatives website.

It says she met him. As in how world leaders meet each other. She discussed getting rid of extremism and Daesh. She didn't endorse sisi and she wasn't there to lecture or critique him. She wasn't there to discuss his vile actions. If you want actual endorsements of murderers and dictators look towards republicans and traditional Dems dealing with Israel and Saudi Arabia. I don't know what you see is wrong with it.



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

https://joebiden.info/ yikes.



HylianSwordsman said:
SpokenTruth said:

https://www.tulsi2020.com/

I don't see anything about Egypt.  Where is it on the site?

https://gabbard.house.gov/news/press-releases/photos-rep-tulsi-gabbard-meets-egypt-president-el-sisi-and-other-leaders-cairo

Sorry, not the campaign website. Her house of representatives website.

You're missing the context here.

She met him, but isn't supporting him. She just says that the US should accept his victory at the election the year prior (which came after a putsch) to increase the stability of the region.

Also, he's fighting ISIS, and even cut out some more violent parts of the religious texts, which salafists and wahabists (like ISIS and Al-Quaida) base their doctrines upon. She wants the US to support that effort, not directly the guy in the presidential seat.