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Forums - Politics Discussion - Active shooter situation reported in Christchurch, New Zealand

RingoGaSuki said:
nuckles87 said:

Looks like they are banning semi-automatic weapons:

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/politics/attorney-general-david-parker-vows-government-will-ban-semi-automatic-rifles/

I feel this is NZ's Port Arthur moment, hopefully the safeguards are put in place to ensure this never happens again. I have faith in Ardern to put something solid in place.

jason1637 said:

It sucks that some asshole ruins it for all the law abiding citizens. 


Nobody needs access to those weapons. NZ police have been pursuing action on this for years, it sucks that this had to happen to spark progress on this issue.

International society needs to take this opportunity to think about tightening controls on fascists and removing their platforms altogether. Fascism is a thought virus. They aren't interested in genuine debate, they don't respect democracy, they don't believe in compromise. Instead they have an absolute goal, and they will use any tools at their disposal to achieve that goal.

They pretend to want to take place in the marketplace of ideas, but they never argue in good faith. They're not trying to convince the logical mind. Each appearance, each interaction, is an opportunity to spread the virus. To find another person who can be seduced by their rhetoric, can become another vector of infection.

It's a self replicating weakness in the human brain. It happens again and again throughout history. Fascism pops up, spreads throughout a society, reaches critical mass, then horrors happen.

Debating them doesn't work, letting them go about their business doesn't work. It's not about free speech and it's not about tolerance. It's about recognising that fascism is a flaw in the brain, a critical weakness in human psychology, that must be guarded against like any other infectious disease. Every converted person is one step closer to critical mass.

Guns are still very important for people to use to protect themselves when their government becomes oppressive. 

As for facism I'm not sure how you can really combat it without taking away the rights of regular citizens. Countries can teach about the negative affects of it more I guess. 



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jason1637 said:
RingoGaSuki said:

I feel this is NZ's Port Arthur moment, hopefully the safeguards are put in place to ensure this never happens again. I have faith in Ardern to put something solid in place.


Nobody needs access to those weapons. NZ police have been pursuing action on this for years, it sucks that this had to happen to spark progress on this issue.

International society needs to take this opportunity to think about tightening controls on fascists and removing their platforms altogether. Fascism is a thought virus. They aren't interested in genuine debate, they don't respect democracy, they don't believe in compromise. Instead they have an absolute goal, and they will use any tools at their disposal to achieve that goal.

They pretend to want to take place in the marketplace of ideas, but they never argue in good faith. They're not trying to convince the logical mind. Each appearance, each interaction, is an opportunity to spread the virus. To find another person who can be seduced by their rhetoric, can become another vector of infection.

It's a self replicating weakness in the human brain. It happens again and again throughout history. Fascism pops up, spreads throughout a society, reaches critical mass, then horrors happen.

Debating them doesn't work, letting them go about their business doesn't work. It's not about free speech and it's not about tolerance. It's about recognising that fascism is a flaw in the brain, a critical weakness in human psychology, that must be guarded against like any other infectious disease. Every converted person is one step closer to critical mass.

Guns are still very important for people to use to protect themselves when their government becomes oppressive. 

As for facism I'm not sure how you can really combat it without taking away the rights of regular citizens. Countries can teach about the negative affects of it more I guess. 

In this age?  






jason1637 said:
RingoGaSuki said:

I feel this is NZ's Port Arthur moment, hopefully the safeguards are put in place to ensure this never happens again. I have faith in Ardern to put something solid in place.


Nobody needs access to those weapons. NZ police have been pursuing action on this for years, it sucks that this had to happen to spark progress on this issue.

International society needs to take this opportunity to think about tightening controls on fascists and removing their platforms altogether. Fascism is a thought virus. They aren't interested in genuine debate, they don't respect democracy, they don't believe in compromise. Instead they have an absolute goal, and they will use any tools at their disposal to achieve that goal.

They pretend to want to take place in the marketplace of ideas, but they never argue in good faith. They're not trying to convince the logical mind. Each appearance, each interaction, is an opportunity to spread the virus. To find another person who can be seduced by their rhetoric, can become another vector of infection.

It's a self replicating weakness in the human brain. It happens again and again throughout history. Fascism pops up, spreads throughout a society, reaches critical mass, then horrors happen.

Debating them doesn't work, letting them go about their business doesn't work. It's not about free speech and it's not about tolerance. It's about recognising that fascism is a flaw in the brain, a critical weakness in human psychology, that must be guarded against like any other infectious disease. Every converted person is one step closer to critical mass.

Guns are still very important for people to use to protect themselves when their government becomes oppressive. 

As for facism I'm not sure how you can really combat it without taking away the rights of regular citizens. Countries can teach about the negative affects of it more I guess. 

They aren't necessary at all in any western country, especially New Zealand and Australia. If they were, the situation would already be beyond the point where they would be useful. The whole idea of a democracy is to balance each other's views without violence, guns have no role in debate. Regardless of what conspiracy theory shit is put out there, the government is not out to get you in the vast majority of cases, and again, if it were, a gun isn't going to protect you. Their only justifiable role in modern society is in pest control or sport. That's it. 

Regular citizens aren't affected by terrorists, terrorist sympathisers and instigators having their platform removed. There is literally zero negative effect on society from doing so. 



jason1637 said:
RingoGaSuki said:

I feel this is NZ's Port Arthur moment, hopefully the safeguards are put in place to ensure this never happens again. I have faith in Ardern to put something solid in place.


Nobody needs access to those weapons. NZ police have been pursuing action on this for years, it sucks that this had to happen to spark progress on this issue.

International society needs to take this opportunity to think about tightening controls on fascists and removing their platforms altogether. Fascism is a thought virus. They aren't interested in genuine debate, they don't respect democracy, they don't believe in compromise. Instead they have an absolute goal, and they will use any tools at their disposal to achieve that goal.

They pretend to want to take place in the marketplace of ideas, but they never argue in good faith. They're not trying to convince the logical mind. Each appearance, each interaction, is an opportunity to spread the virus. To find another person who can be seduced by their rhetoric, can become another vector of infection.

It's a self replicating weakness in the human brain. It happens again and again throughout history. Fascism pops up, spreads throughout a society, reaches critical mass, then horrors happen.

Debating them doesn't work, letting them go about their business doesn't work. It's not about free speech and it's not about tolerance. It's about recognising that fascism is a flaw in the brain, a critical weakness in human psychology, that must be guarded against like any other infectious disease. Every converted person is one step closer to critical mass.

Guns are still very important for people to use to protect themselves when their government becomes oppressive. 

As for facism I'm not sure how you can really combat it without taking away the rights of regular citizens. Countries can teach about the negative affects of it more I guess. 

"As for facism I'm not sure how you can really combat it without taking away the rights of regular citizens."

but... that is fascism



konnichiwa said:
jason1637 said:

Guns are still very important for people to use to protect themselves when their government becomes oppressive. 

As for facism I'm not sure how you can really combat it without taking away the rights of regular citizens. Countries can teach about the negative affects of it more I guess. 

In this age?  

Yes. Dictatorships can still happen and if the government passes laws that take away rights it's up yo the people yo revolt with gun power.

RingoGaSuki said:
jason1637 said:

Guns are still very important for people to use to protect themselves when their government becomes oppressive. 

As for facism I'm not sure how you can really combat it without taking away the rights of regular citizens. Countries can teach about the negative affects of it more I guess. 

They aren't necessary at all in any western country, especially New Zealand and Australia. If they were, the situation would already be beyond the point where they would be useful. The whole idea of a democracy is to balance each other's views without violence, guns have no role in debate. Regardless of what conspiracy theory shit is put out there, the government is not out to get you in the vast majority of cases, and again, if it were, a gun isn't going to protect you. Their only justifiable role in modern society is in pest control or sport. That's it. 

Regular citizens aren't affected by terrorists, terrorist sympathisers and instigators having their platform removed. There is literally zero negative effect on society from doing so. 

Because it's not necessary for you does not mean it's not necessary for others. If someone lives somewhere with lots of crime they need a gun to protect themselves. And if the government tries to pull some oppressive shit then guns are needed to fight back .

De platforming fascists and terrorist should be a thing as long as it does not become a weapon to de0latf9rm an opposing view point. 



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RingoGaSuki said:
jason1637 said:

Guns are still very important for people to use to protect themselves when their government becomes oppressive. 

As for facism I'm not sure how you can really combat it without taking away the rights of regular citizens. Countries can teach about the negative affects of it more I guess. 

They aren't necessary at all in any western country, especially New Zealand and Australia. If they were, the situation would already be beyond the point where they would be useful. The whole idea of a democracy is to balance each other's views without violence, guns have no role in debate. Regardless of what conspiracy theory shit is put out there, the government is not out to get you in the vast majority of cases, and again, if it were, a gun isn't going to protect you. Their only justifiable role in modern society is in pest control or sport. That's it. 

Regular citizens aren't affected by terrorists, terrorist sympathisers and instigators having their platform removed. There is literally zero negative effect on society from doing so. 

"Regardless of what conspiracy theory shit is put out there, the government is not out to get you in the vast majority of cases"

that has actually been the entirety of human history, even if we ignore that what do you think about place like north korea and china? or how the middle east treats women?

 

"International society needs to take this opportunity to think about tightening controls on fascists and removing their platforms altogether. Fascism is a thought virus. "

well you described fascism which is authoritarian suppression of differing opinions

it is already law that incitement of violence is a crime are you arguing to extend the law beyond that?





‪A New Zealand silver fern on the sails of the Sydney Opera House.
www.7plus.com.au/news
#christchurch #7News

It has been raining a lot here in NSW Australia lately. Tears and sadness are falling through our soil.



Pocky Lover Boy! 

Pemalite said:
o_O.Q said:

"Successful, just like Australia's."

so how could this happen?

Gun control doesn't mean it will never happen.
It does however decrease the likelihood... The fact there hasn't been an incident in years means it has been successful, they will likely ramp up their gun control legislation in the face of this... And I honestly hope so, Gun Control works and saves lives.

Even if Australia was to have a massacre that kills 100 people, the gun control legislation has still been highly effective.

And contrary to what some people may say... Gun Control doesn't mean you can't own guns, you still can, you just need a reason. (I.E. Sport, Farming etc'.) and need a ton of checks and balances to make sure that the lethal weapons are out of harms way. (Alarms, Secured Gun lockers etc'.)

*************************

Senator Fraser Anning who sent out that disgusting un-Australian letter... Got egged and then he punched a minor.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-16/fraser-anning-egged-in-melbourne-while-speaking-to-media/10908650

The thing is, a massacre of 100 people in Australia is quite bad compared to massacre of 100 people in say Brazil or USA. Australia is almost as big as USA or Brazil but has a very small population, as well as density. So the gun violence rate would be quite terrible statistically if that were to happen.

To put in perspective this 50 casualty massacre in NZ would be equivalent to 3000 casualty massacres in USA.



SpokenTruth said:
jason1637 said:

Btw does anyone know what caused the terroist to shot the mosque?

His manifesto suggests it was borne from growing hatred for Muslims and the rhetoric from Donald Trump, Candace Owens and others.  He felt that not enough direct action was being taken to destroy Islam so he took it upon himself to do it in his local community.

For the record, his manifesto is about 16,500 words long. https://pastebin.com/DMtt5xka

20 of those words are devoted to Donald Trump. Here's what he had to say:

Were/are you a supporter of Donald Trump?

As a symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose? Sure. As a

policy maker and leader? Dear god no.

On Candace Owens, he states in 62 words:

Is there a particular person that radicalized you the most?

Yes, the person that has influenced me above all was Candace Owens.

Each time she spoke I was stunned by her insights and her own views

helped push me further and further into the belief of violence over

meekness. Though I will have to disavow some of her beliefs, the

extreme actions she calls for are too much, even for my tastes.

He also goes on to state:

How did you develop/research/receive your views and beliefs?

Over a great deal of time, from a great deal of places.

From where did you receive/research/develop your beliefs?

The internet, of course. You will not find the truth anywhere else.



KLAMarine said:
SpokenTruth said:

His manifesto suggests it was borne from growing hatred for Muslims and the rhetoric from Donald Trump, Candace Owens and others.  He felt that not enough direct action was being taken to destroy Islam so he took it upon himself to do it in his local community.

For the record, his manifesto is about 16,500 words long. https://pastebin.com/DMtt5xka

20 of those words are devoted to Donald Trump. Here's what he had to say:

On Candace Owens, he states in 62 words:

He also goes on to state:

Just know that he did this to put the people against eachother so the words he did put down are not necessary existing to be honest but to deal the most damage he can deliver.