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Forums - Politics Discussion - Active shooter situation reported in Christchurch, New Zealand

HylianSwordsman said:
o_O.Q said:

" For example, Christians believe in the Trinity"...

...because of the bible or in other words the holy book

as is the case with all of the beliefs

Clearly you didn't listen to me before about the Bible not being canon until recently. Christians were just a body of people for the longest time. They had letters from Paul, but they weren't a Bible until fairly recently.

"Yeah you continue to make me think you don't know how implying works, so I won't waste my time."

making assertions is easy... but backing them up? well that's something else entirely

Right.

"She specifies Muslims, yes, but there's not much substance there that's actually critical of the specific values"

you expected an essay on twitter where communication is restricted to 140 characters?

Yeah, that's one reason I hate Twitter. So much public discourse happens there, but you just can't have an in depth discussion with 140 characters at a time.

"Yep. Not in an absolute sense, obviously, but in an "this is what they used to try to justify it in this case" kind of way."

i've never seen women talk about their preferences for men with money and say "well my culture told me to get a rich guy so i did"

if anything its the opposite where in some cases women pretend to be with a guy for something more than his money because they fear shame from people labeling them as gold diggers or shallow

Lol that's not how culture works dude.

"Not necessarily that, just any problem caused by a societies values."

i've said it before and i'll say it again if you're only ready to accept that this is caused by socialisation(which seems to be the case) you're in for a lot of disappointment

Not sure what you mean. But okay.

", it becomes a problem if the society struggles as a result of a cultural trend within it, with Japan's demographic problems just being one example."

if japan collapses as a country to ensure women's rights then i think its a worthy sacrifice

imo women's rights are more important than japan

Not sure why you think I was suggesting Japan had to stop women's rights. 

"Nope. Because it wouldn't have representatives, but be a direct democracy."

and how does this work exactly? 300 million people vote on every single bit of legislation? 

you then go on to demonstrate imo that you don't understand what democracy is and i'm not bothering to go there with you, the information is there for you to access if you want 

but disregarding that what then do you call a political system where the majority choose what policies are put into place? you are claiming its not democracy so what it is then?

Democracy doesn't have to be by majority dude. It can set up its own rules. Like on a smaller scale, you and your friends could agree that you will only go to a restaurant to eat if 3/4s of you agree on the restaurant. That's still democracy, it just has additional rules. And no, 300 million people wouldn't vote on legislation. Direct democracy would require incredible amounts of technology, some of which we don't have yet. I still want it though. I'll just have to wait until the technology catches up.

"Emotions. Probably fear specifically. That's usually why people vote to harm themselves in the long run. Example? Well imagine if they voted to make what Candace did illegal (aka, if they make it illegal to express her opinion if someone uses it as reason to do something else illegal), and to make it legal to lay the blame on her for the massacre? Hence why you'd have a constitution that prevented them from acting on emotion without thinking out the consequences."

if you took away the element of fear from voting, i expect voting patterns would change entirely, i don't think you are acknowledging how big of an effect it has already

Duh. That's what I'm saying. I swear, it's like you go out of your way to find a way to portray yourself as disagreeing with me, and you sometimes can't do it.

"Clearly you didn't listen to me before about the Bible not being canon until recently. "

i'm talking about whatever writings or stories or whatever are followed

obviously each religion has its own set of stories 

the bible may not have been canon but obviously it was derived from a unique set of stories or it was a unique interpretation of a certain set of stories or whatever and it is this that differentiates religions

or do you not think you are different to a muslim? you realise your argumentation is leading in that direction right?

 

"Lol that's not how culture works dude."

you're being very vague here so i must admit that its hard to understand your point... you seemed to be stating that culture influences women to prefer men with more resources

the point is that's just wrong, as i've said before its behavior observed across just about all cultures and the vast majority of animals in the animal kingdom and obviously animals do not have culture

 

"Not sure what you mean. But okay."

i honestly can't simplify this down any further

 

"Not sure why you think I was suggesting Japan had to stop women's rights. "

you were talking about how women selecting for men with more resources is causing problems in japan

my inference from this is that you think a solution is to place pressure on women to change their selection criteria which would be imo an attack on women's rights

 

"Democracy doesn't have to be by majority dude."

that's what democracy is defined as

 

" And no, 300 million people wouldn't vote on legislation. "

so how would your system differ from what exists already?



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o_O.Q said:
HylianSwordsman said:

"Clearly you didn't listen to me before about the Bible not being canon until recently. "

i'm talking about whatever writings or stories or whatever are followed

obviously each religion has its own set of stories 

the bible may not have been canon but obviously it was derived from a unique set of stories or it was a unique interpretation of a certain set of stories or whatever and it is this that differentiates religions

or do you not think you are different to a muslim? you realise your argumentation is leading in that direction right?

Except that those stories weren't constant, the specific values, precise wordings, and exact understandings behind them not locked down. Religions can evolve. Holy books kind of can, but only when the religion as a whole decides to change it, which they did several times throughout history.

"Lol that's not how culture works dude."

you're being very vague here so i must admit that its hard to understand your point... you seemed to be stating that culture influences women to prefer men with more resources

the point is that's just wrong, as i've said before its behavior observed across just about all cultures and the vast majority of animals in the animal kingdom and obviously animals do not have culture

More than one culture can come to a similar conclusion for different reasons.

"Not sure what you mean. But okay."

i honestly can't simplify this down any further

Okay. We'll have to move on then.

"Not sure why you think I was suggesting Japan had to stop women's rights. "

you were talking about how women selecting for men with more resources is causing problems in japan

my inference from this is that you think a solution is to place pressure on women to change their selection criteria which would be imo an attack on women's rights

That's how culture works dude. It places pressure on people to follow trends.

"Democracy doesn't have to be by majority dude."

that's what democracy is defined as

Nope. In that you are wrong. Democracy can define whatever rules it wants. You could have plurality, simple majority, supermajority, or unanimity, or a system that eliminates sufficiently small minorities and asks for ranked preferences to create consensus. It can be as simple or complex as the people agree to.

" And no, 300 million people wouldn't vote on legislation. "

so how would your system differ from what exists already?

Lol I don't have it all spelled out yet. Doesn't mean that on a fundamental level, that's not my ultimate aim. I just don't have the details hammered out, nor do I have to. Not like I have that much say in it anyway. If I did have all the say, I'd move us towards direct democracy gradually, building a more directly democratic  system by adding direct elements to our current system and gradually reforming it, designing and building up whole new directly democratic institutions. It would involve a perfected and fully transparent block-chain system, that's the technology that's needed the most that isn't quite there yet. Probably the tech won't all be in place for a few decades, but will within the lifespan of a young adult today. So I have time to work out the details. That said, if I did have all the say, it wouldn't be a democracy would it? It'll have to be something we come to as a whole society. Might not happen, but it won't stop me from cheering for it.



The Christchurch shooter was inspired by Norway's Anders Breivik, a far right, extremist who killed 77 people in Norway in 2011. Breivik blamed Muslims and the Leftists for all the problems in the world and he regarded himself as a crusader fighting a war against Islam. The Christchurch shooters manifesto is based on Breivik and he regarded himself as a crusader fighting a war against Islam.

https://www.thelocal.no/20190316/how-norways-inspired-the-christchurch-mosque-attacker

Last edited by Dark_Lord_2008 - on 29 March 2019

Well lots of people died last sunday in Sri Lanka and obama and clinton don't even called the victims christians, only "easter worshippers". And don't even mention the fact the terror attack perpetrators were muslims.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-04-22/theyre-called-christians-conservatives-mock-obama-clinton-tweets-about-sri-lankan

When the news don't fit the left narrative, they go to the sidelines. (I am not catholic (just a protestant)).



the-pi-guy said:
CuCabeludo said:

Well lots of people died last sunday in Sri Lanka and obama and clinton don't even called the victims christians, only "easter worshippers". 

How horrible of Obama and Clinton to use a broader term that could include people that aren't Christians.

As a Christian, this is the biggest nothing being used to attack Obama Ive seen.

CuCabeludo said:

And don't even mention the fact the terror attack perpetrators were muslims.

That's not that strange, seeing as how when they tweeted, no one knew who the perpetrators were. 

Besides mentioning that the terror attack was perpetrated by Muslims doesn't mean much.  Liberals avoid that terminology because people have the tendency to attack people that don't have anything to do with the attacks, just because they are Muslim.  There's no nefarious plot, there's no liberal agenda.  Just an avoidance of the BS.

CuCabeludo said:


https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-04-22/theyre-called-christians-conservatives-mock-obama-clinton-tweets-about-sri-lankan

When the news don't fit the left narrative, they go to the sidelines. (I am not catholic (just a protestant)).

The fact that conservative news outlets are writing reports about how Obama and Clinton using a more inclusive term than Christian says more about the news outlet's agenda than it says of any left narrative or Obama's agenda.  

Hm I think it's valid to ask why they used to term "easter worshippers" instead of Christians. As far as I know nobody called the victims of the New Zealand mosque shooter "Friday Prayer worshippers" or something like that.

"easter worshippers" isn't even a more inclusive term than Christians because we have no clue if the non Christians, who were killed in the churches, even "worshipped easter".

Edit: Also "easter worshippers" in a church celebrate to birth of god's son, Jesus Christ and how do we call such people? Christians

Last edited by MrWayne - on 22 April 2019

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MrWayne said:
the-pi-guy said:

How horrible of Obama and Clinton to use a broader term that could include people that aren't Christians.

As a Christian, this is the biggest nothing being used to attack Obama Ive seen.

That's not that strange, seeing as how when they tweeted, no one knew who the perpetrators were. 

Besides mentioning that the terror attack was perpetrated by Muslims doesn't mean much.  Liberals avoid that terminology because people have the tendency to attack people that don't have anything to do with the attacks, just because they are Muslim.  There's no nefarious plot, there's no liberal agenda.  Just an avoidance of the BS.

The fact that conservative news outlets are writing reports about how Obama and Clinton using a more inclusive term than Christian says more about the news outlet's agenda than it says of any left narrative or Obama's agenda.  

Hm I think it's valid to ask why they used to term "easter worshippers" instead of Christians. As far as I know nobody called the victims of the New Zealand mosque shooter "Friday Prayer worshippers" or something like that.

"easter worshippers" isn't even a more inclusive term than Christians because we have no clue if the non Christians, who were killed in the churches, even "worshipped easter".

Edit: Also "easter worshippers" in a church celebrate to birth of god's son, Jesus Christ and how do we call such people? Christians

So if you think that Easter worshippers in a church are by definition Christian then what's the issue?

Obama: it's sad that 10 squares will killed this Saturday.

Conservative: Fuckin' coward doesn't want to say that rectangles were murdered.



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Torillian said:
MrWayne said:

Hm I think it's valid to ask why they used to term "easter worshippers" instead of Christians. As far as I know nobody called the victims of the New Zealand mosque shooter "Friday Prayer worshippers" or something like that.

"easter worshippers" isn't even a more inclusive term than Christians because we have no clue if the non Christians, who were killed in the churches, even "worshipped easter".

Edit: Also "easter worshippers" in a church celebrate to birth of god's son, Jesus Christ and how do we call such people? Christians

So if you think that Easter worshippers in a church are by definition Christian then what's the issue?

Obama: it's sad that 10 squares will killed this Saturday.

Conservative: Fuckin' coward doesn't want to say that rectangles were murdered.

Why are they(not only Clinton and Obama) using this strange term instead of the much more well known term?
I think they did that because they are afraid, many far right figures use islamist terror attacks against Christians as justification for their anti muslim agenda and they don't want to feed into that. But I think hiding behind ambiguous words is the wrong responds.



MrWayne said:
Torillian said:

So if you think that Easter worshippers in a church are by definition Christian then what's the issue?

Obama: it's sad that 10 squares will killed this Saturday.

Conservative: Fuckin' coward doesn't want to say that rectangles were murdered.

Why are they(not only Clinton and Obama) using this strange term instead of the much more well known term?
I think they did that because they are afraid, many far right figures use islamist terror attacks against Christians as justification for their anti muslim agenda and they don't want to feed into that. But I think hiding behind ambiguous words is the wrong responds.

Perhaps, or maybe they said Easter worshippers because the attack happened on Easter. I disagree with the idea that the term is more ambiguous because like you said the only people who would be worshipping in a church on Easter would be Christians.



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Torillian said:
MrWayne said:

Why are they(not only Clinton and Obama) using this strange term instead of the much more well known term?
I think they did that because they are afraid, many far right figures use islamist terror attacks against Christians as justification for their anti muslim agenda and they don't want to feed into that. But I think hiding behind ambiguous words is the wrong responds.

Perhaps, or maybe they said Easter worshippers because the attack happened on Easter. I disagree with the idea that the term is more ambiguous because like you said the only people who would be worshipping in a church on Easter would be Christians.

We will never know what their real intent was but if they just used "Christian" nobody would have a problem with that and the far right wouldn't have the munition to produce a outrage.

I think many liberals and lefties are overly careful when it comes to terrorist attacks commited by non white persons and extremist ideologies in non white communities.



MrWayne said:
Torillian said:

Perhaps, or maybe they said Easter worshippers because the attack happened on Easter. I disagree with the idea that the term is more ambiguous because like you said the only people who would be worshipping in a church on Easter would be Christians.

We will never know what their real intent was but if they just used "Christian" nobody would have a problem with that and the far right wouldn't have the munition to produce a outrage.

I think many liberals and lefties are overly careful when it comes to terrorist attacks commited by non white persons and extremist ideologies in non white communities.

Perhaps, but if they're so smart why didn't they see this little far right outrage coming? In my mind the simpler explanation is they said what was technically accurate and then the internet being what it is someone found issue with it because (and this is admittedly my own form of inductive reasoning on motives) if there's one thing white Christian people love more than anything it's to feel like they're the ones being persecuted. 



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