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Active shooter situation reported in Christchurch, New Zealand

Forums - Politics Discussion - Active shooter situation reported in Christchurch, New Zealand

Kerotan said:
konnichiwa said:

Sorry to hear, Utrecht is so random。

The fact that he finally would go to jail probably triggered him to do it? 

He got caught for buglary, theft, rape, trying to kill someone in a shooting, hate crime against police officers....

This guy was born in Turkey and had Turkish citizenship right? Why wouldn't they revoke citizenship from someone with such bad behaviour. European countries need to make citizenship in their countries harder to obtain and then harder to retain. 

What exact problem would revoking his citizenship solve? This guy killed three people in the netherlands, he should receive his punishment in the netherlands, also the turkish justice system isn't independent anymore, one cannot guarantee anymore that he would get the right punishment in Turkey.



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MrWayne said:
konnichiwa said:

Sorry to hear, Utrecht is so random。

The fact that he finally would go to jail probably triggered him to do it? 

He got caught for buglary, theft, rape, trying to kill someone in a shooting, hate crime against police officers....

Is it already confirmed to be a terrorist attack?

You're right with Erdogan, it was clear that he would use the terrorist attack in NZ to spread his turkish nationalist/ Islamist views. The goal of all these extremists is the same, the division of our society.

Im kinda interested in what his views are on the Ottoman empire and if he has a dream to revive it if there wasnt that much conflict going on.



Immersiveunreality said:
MrWayne said:

Is it already confirmed to be a terrorist attack?

You're right with Erdogan, it was clear that he would use the terrorist attack in NZ to spread his turkish nationalist/ Islamist views. The goal of all these extremists is the same, the division of our society.

Im kinda interested in what his views are on the Ottoman empire and if he has a dream to revive it if there wasnt that much conflict going on.

Oh he very much sees himself in the tradition of the Ottoman sultans. He acts expansionist towards the turkish neighbours (turkey occupied parts of Syria, ongoing disagreements with greece about greek islands, etc.)

He even build himself a big ass palace.



LittleSnake said:
Pemalite said:

The boy egged a politician... Sure he should be charged with assault... But considering Fraser Anning's comments were disgusting, you can't blame him. Egg boy is a hero in my books. Haha
In saying that, I once called John Howard (Old prime minister of Australia) a "royal wanker" years ago when I met him, felt good. No repercussions.

...In saying that, hitting a minor is also illegal... It's one thing to whack someone in self defense, but to do it multiple times? To someone deemed a child in the eyes of the law? And then go on record later by stating that his mother should have done the same thing a long time ago is also crossing a line.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/fraser-anning-says-eggboys-mum-slapped-around-040930945.html

The petition to kick Fraser Anning out of Government has reached almost 1.3~ million, the largest petition in Australian history. (In retrospect our population is only 24~ million, so it's significant.)
https://www.change.org/p/the-prime-minister-remove-fraser-anning-from-parliament

They were all in the wrong. Yes, Fraser's comments were disgusting, but that doesn't give the right for someone to smash an egg on his head. The boy of course didn't deserve to be beaten, that was excessive. Why does smashing an egg on someone's head make him a hero? And good for you? 

I know hitting a minor is illegal, he should be punished for that, but assaulting someone is also illegal.

I do feel sorry for the boy, and yes, the politician is a shitty person, I do believe that is something we can agree on. 

Wowie, must be one of the most hated guys in Australia 

Fraser is a tosser but smashing (not throwing) and egg on someone whilst filming clearly was aiming to get a reaction. Anyone doing such an act should be aware that their actions have consequences. 

17 year old is hardly a minor. It's called a little cunt who knows what they are doing and should be wacked back to learn some respect. Younger men than him went to WWI and WWII to defend this country, they would be disgusted by him. He is no hero. I mean he attacked a senior citizen who is 70 years old. The blokes who died at war are heros.

I say this to everyone who says the egging was justified. Go get an egg and do it to a random person or even a cop. See what happens.

As for being charged, well I think the only person who can file that charge is Fraser. If it hasn't happened then I guess it won't.



 

 

o_O.Q said:
KLAMarine said:

For the record, his manifesto is about 16,500 words long. https://pastebin.com/DMtt5xka

20 of those words are devoted to Donald Trump. Here's what he had to say:

On Candace Owens, he states in 62 words:

He also goes on to state:

can you give me some examples of where candace owens advocates for violence against muslims?

i asked spokentruth and apparently he can't find any

I have you on my ignore list, remember?  I only un-ignored you so I could what crap you were asking from me and it doesn't make any sense at all.  I never said Candace Owens was advocating violence against Muslims.

I said, "His manifesto suggests it was borne from growing hatred for Muslims and the rhetoric from Donald Trump, Candace Owens and others."

Now back on the ignore list you go.  Just look what you've turned this thread into.

think-man said:
konnichiwa said:
Don't want to open another thread but I wonder; Erdogan misused the video in his propaganda and now today we have a 'Turkish' 'Dutch' citizen commit a shooting in The Netherlands.

I was at the station in Utrecht at the time it happened. 

Glad to hear you are OK.

Madness seems to be everywhere these days.



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

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It’s still vague, but now it’s most likely it wasn’t a terrorist attack here in The Netherlands, and thereby not a direct kind of ‘revenge’ or whatever for Christchurch.



S.Peelman said:
It’s still vague, but now it’s most likely it wasn’t a terrorist attack here in The Netherlands, and thereby not a direct kind of ‘revenge’ or whatever for Christchurch.

It seems like one of the people he killed was his aunt or something.



Pemalite said:
jason1637 said:

I mean that if the government begins to oppress its people more outside of taxes. Its the people responsibility to fight back.

So basically... What you are condoning is violence against the Government on a what-if slippery-slope scenario? Do you know who else condoned violence because of a what-if scenario? (Muslims being potential terrorists) The shooter in Christchurch, New Zealand.

If you think a small group of people waving firearms is going to be able to beat a Government with a MODERN and capable military, navy, airforce, coast guard, police, intelligence agencies and more... Then I think you might need to reassess things, untrained civilians holding weapons won't change a single damn thing.

There are other ways to fight back... And that is through appropriate avenues available in all modern, stable, advanced democracies... Like peaceful protests, appropriate voting and so on.

jason1637 said:

I'm not saying that there should be no gun control. I'm just saying that in NZ the laws seem strict enough that I dont see the need for any more gun control besides making it harder for people not fit to have guns to get guns.. They already have background checks which should be enough. They can pass laws that make it harder for menatlly ill people to get guns but banning different type of guns like someone suggested earlier is too much imo.

Clearly they aren't strict enough if dozens of people just got slaughtered by a right-wing conservative terrorist.

jason1637 said:

Your government might not be opressing you guys now but you never know when they will pull some oppressive shit. If that were to happen then your people will equiped to fight back and protect yourselves from the government.

You never know when we might get invaded by aliens either.
The argument you are sticking to is a logical fallacy, aka. The Slippery Slope argument and is thus entirely redundant.

Do you ultimately know what keeps the Australian government humble and from being oppressive? The Media.
The Media isn't afraid to report on the governments happenings and create a shit storm... Which then means the Governments chances of being re-elected essentially implodes, it's happened tons of times.

Plus the constitution and other checks and balances in our Democracy keeps things in check.

But leveraging the politics of fear for a what-if scenario that might not ever happen is just silly and nonsensical and shouldn't be adhered to, regardless of what side of the political divide you fall on.

1. If the government begins to oppress its citizens and takes away their rights then citizens should get their weapons and fight back. In some countries that the government have expressed their people the elections are rigged and peaceful protests are meet with military action.

2. Well the government should have took his guns away. Apparently reports say the guy has been planning this attack for a while.

3. Well unlike aliens governments have a history of oppressing their people throughout history. It would ne naive to think you are safe from the government and that it cant happen again.

The media are private corporations and can always be bought out. Also if the government tries to restrict press privileges than the media won't do much for you.

There are lot of civilizations and countries that have had a constitution and checks and balances but end up going down due to their oppressive governments.



SpokenTruth said:
o_O.Q said:

can you give me some examples of where candace owens advocates for violence against muslims?

i asked spokentruth and apparently he can't find any

I have you on my ignore list, remember?  I only un-ignored you so I could what crap you were asking from me and it doesn't make any sense at all.  I never said Candace Owens was advocating violence against Muslims.

I said, "His manifesto suggests it was borne from growing hatred for Muslims and the rhetoric from Donald Trump, Candace Owens and others."

Now back on the ignore list you go.  Just look what you've turned this thread into.

There's an ignore list? How does it work?



LittleSnake said:

Why does smashing an egg on someone's head make him a hero?

Because Fraser Anning isn't an Australian if he prescribes to racist, xenophobic, bigoted, homophobic, sexist, child abusing rhetoric.
Thus someone throwing some egg in his face is exactly what he deserves... And clearly with 1.3~ million votes to boot him out of parliament... Seems it's a common opinion.

Politicians being egged isn't a new thing here either... We have a history of it actually.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-19/100-years-of-political-eggings/10912526

When Julia Gillard was egged, she didn't smack a minor, she contained her composure.

Cobretti2 said:

Fraser is a tosser but smashing (not throwing) and egg on someone whilst filming clearly was aiming to get a reaction. Anyone doing such an act should be aware that their actions have consequences. 

Oh I agree. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.
The kid got more than he bargained for, he got physically assaulted more than once, then heavily pinned to the ground for a substantial amount of time, it was overblown.

Cobretti2 said:

17 year old is hardly a minor. It's called a little cunt who knows what they are doing and should be wacked back to learn some respect. Younger men than him went to WWI and WWII to defend this country, they would be disgusted by him. He is no hero. I mean he attacked a senior citizen who is 70 years old. The blokes who died at war are heros.

Under Australian law... Anyone under the age of 18 years is a minor.
The kid is still a hero in my eyes... And that doesn't make war heroes any less of a hero either, so there isn't any point bringing that issue in.

Being egged is "hardly" a damaging attack either, it's embarrassing sure, but you aren't exactly at risk of bodily harm.

jason1637 said:

1. If the government begins to oppress its citizens and takes away their rights then citizens should get their weapons and fight back. In some countries that the government have expressed their people the elections are rigged and peaceful protests are meet with military action.

There is no evidence that your slippery slope logical fallacy is going to occur here or any other modern, highly advanced, stable democracy, though.

jason1637 said:

2. Well the government should have took his guns away. Apparently reports say the guy has been planning this attack for a while.

Hence why there is an obvious failing in the New Zealand system and it should have a complete top-to-bottom audit and various gun control legislation tightened.

jason1637 said:

3. Well unlike aliens governments have a history of oppressing their people throughout history. It would ne naive to think you are safe from the government and that it cant happen again.

The point you are missing is that you are speaking entirely in hypothetical's...

Remember when the Church was saying that same-sex marriage would destroy the sanctity of marriage, destroy childrens lives and so on? Yeah. That didn't happen either... Which is why Slippery Slope Logical Fallacies can be discarded in their absurd entirety.

jason1637 said:

The media are private corporations and can always be bought out. Also if the government tries to restrict press privileges than the media won't do much for you.

You know there are tons of sources of information that we are bombarded with these days from all directions? Governments controlling everything is actually becoming a more difficult prospect, China tries it's hardest and often fails.

With that in mind... Usually once a Government starts taking control of media and issues censorship, they have already started to enact a multi-year strategy... And a small group of citizens waving a couple of guns about isn't going to change a damn thing, not in the face of the Governments Police, Navy, Army, Airforce and Security organizations... In short. You are up shit creek without a paddle either way.

jason1637 said:

There are lot of civilizations and countries that have had a constitution and checks and balances but end up going down due to their oppressive governments.

And do you honestly think a small group of people waving guns about would have altered the trajectory of those outcomes? And usually those nations weren't highly advanced, free, modern, democracies with strong foundations.