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"Leaving Neverland": Do you think Michael Jackson is Innocent?

Forums - General Discussion - "Leaving Neverland": Do you think Michael Jackson is Innocent?

Thriller and Invincible or Bad and Dangerous

Good guy, wrongly accused 48 52.17%
 
Talented Bad guy 23 25.00%
 
A little of both. 21 22.83%
 
Total:92

Frankly i dont care, the music remains amazing.



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

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For as long as I can remember, I've gobbled up any MJ information I could find. He was like a rare unicorn. Yes, there's TONS and tons of video of him now but his actual appearances on TV were few, post Thriller. We'd go months if not years waiting for our next MJ fix. It was always a special and magical event when we finally saw him. We always were left hungry for just a little more.

With that said, there are a few things that we just decided to ignore. Things that I'm seeing with more mature eyes that are tainting my views of Michael. Some aren't even in the documentary.

-He DEMANDED that a kid be allowed to go with him on tour. I think it was during the time of Dangerous. He wanted to take this kid from his family and got mad when they refused. He threatened the family with his layers. This wasn't either of the two from the documentary, either.

-He somehow always attached himself to the "kid if the moment". From Emmanuel (Webster) Lewis to Macaulay Culkin. Whatever kids America was fascinated with, they were hanging with Michael.

-He never really had any public relationships or relationships at all. Just these weird obsessions with people like Brooke Shields, Elizabeth Taylor, or Diana Ross. His two weddings were just...weird.

-He had drug addictions. Just like a kid, right? He had gone to rehab many times and he was smart enough to "doctor shop" for the ones who'd give him what he wanted instead of the ones who would give him what he needed.

-He straight up lied about not knowing what "skin bleaching" was. He had the creams that would give him that effect. Yes, he did have vitaligo. He also lied about his surgeries. He claimed he only had two for breathing issues when there were actually over a dozen.

-We say "Poor Michael didn't have a childhood" but he had several siblings. Like 8 or something, off the top of my head. Some older and some younger. They grew up in the same household. Michael didn't go solo until he was in his teens. If Michael didn't have a childhood, they didn't either. None of them turned out like he did.

-I HAD a childhood. It only lasted a small amount of time. Michael wanted his childhood to last for DECADES. That's just greedy. And despite being a "child", he would make some really adult decisions like buying into Sony, the Beetles catalog, etc. S

-He had so many accusers. Maybe some had questionable motives but damn. Staff, family, "victims", security. All of them just wanted money after seeing the people before them fail time and again?

-Some of the things in the documentary require a truly creative and evil mind to even come up with. Safechuck even had a collection of rings, including a "wedding ring" that Michael gave him. Things like that, things like the hotel rooms, buying a home for his parents after court--there has to be a paper trail, right?

-He paid a rumored $20-$25 million to his accusers. That should have been a more than adequate amount to pay for a defense if he was innocent. Especially with the money he had at the time. Why did he cave? Did he think he could lose? What did they have on him? Even in the doc, they defended him saying that "proved it was just about the money".

-Michael's response to being accused was just like that of Gary Glitter and R. Kelly--a message to the public saying "They just want money! The truth will come out. I'm the victim!"

-Wade and Safechuck's alleged experience seems awfully familiar to that of the Netflix doc "Abducted In Plain Sight".

-According to his doctor (this may be false), Michael was chemically castrated at an early age to protect his voice. He couldn't do the things he's been accused of. But he sat right there and smiled when his wife said "We have sex. It's the best sex of my life!"

-Not 100% sure if it's true but I saw online that too much time has passed and neither man can get anything from the Jackson estate. Meanwhile the two are hated by MJ fans, Wade's father is dead (Michael related? Who knows?), Safechuck's mom has been virtually kicked out of the family for her part in all of this. This is winning? Yeah, they could make some money from all of this controversy. Books, etc.

My wife said it in a way that made sense. Michael made us fall in love with him when he was "normal". We loved him so much that when things got weird we just accepted it without question. Everyone was a fan. That's how he works. He probably did the same to those kids. Before they realized how weird things really were, they were already in deep.

I don't know. I've had a lot of time to think about it. I'm not keeping a closed mind on this one. I hate that he's not here to defend himself but his history is just sketchy. We're smarter these days than we used to be...but then we still have people who think the earth is flat.



Twitter: @d21lewis  --I'll add you if you add me!!

d21lewis said:

For as long as I can remember, I've gobbled up any MJ information I could find. He was like a rare unicorn. Yes, there's TONS and tons of video of him now but his actual appearances on TV were few, post Thriller. We'd go months if not years waiting for our next MJ fix. It was always a special and magical event when we finally saw him. We always were left hungry for just a little more.

With that said, there are a few things that we just decided to ignore. Things that I'm seeing with more mature eyes that are tainting my views of Michael. Some aren't even in the documentary.

-He DEMANDED that a kid be allowed to go with him on tour. I think it was during the time of Dangerous. He wanted to take this kid from his family and got mad when they refused. He threatened the family with his layers. This wasn't either of the two from the documentary, either.

-He somehow always attached himself to the "kid if the moment". From Emmanuel (Webster) Lewis to Macaulay Culkin. Whatever kids America was fascinated with, they were hanging with Michael.

-He never really had any public relationships or relationships at all. Just these weird obsessions with people like Brooke Shields, Elizabeth Taylor, or Diana Ross. His two weddings were just...weird.

-He had drug addictions. Just like a kid, right? He had gone to rehab many times and he was smart enough to "doctor shop" for the ones who'd give him what he wanted instead of the ones who would give him what he needed.

-He straight up lied about not knowing what "skin bleaching" was. He had the creams that would give him that effect. Yes, he did have vitaligo. He also lied about his surgeries. He claimed he only had two for breathing issues when there were actually over a dozen.

-We say "Poor Michael didn't have a childhood" but he had several siblings. Like 8 or something, off the top of my head. Some older and some younger. They grew up in the same household. Michael didn't go solo until he was in his teens. If Michael didn't have a childhood, they didn't either. None of them turned out like he did.

-I HAD a childhood. It only lasted a small amount of time. Michael wanted his childhood to last for DECADES. That's just greedy. And despite being a "child", he would make some really adult decisions like buying into Sony, the Beetles catalog, etc. S

-He had so many accusers. Maybe some had questionable motives but damn. Staff, family, "victims", security. All of them just wanted money after seeing the people before them fail time and again?

-Some of the things in the documentary require a truly creative and evil mind to even come up with. Safechuck even had a collection of rings, including a "wedding ring" that Michael gave him. Things like that, things like the hotel rooms, buying a home for his parents after court--there has to be a paper trail, right?

-He paid a rumored $20-$25 million to his accusers. That should have been a more than adequate amount to pay for a defense if he was innocent. Especially with the money he had at the time. Why did he cave? Did he think he could lose? What did they have on him? Even in the doc, they defended him saying that "proved it was just about the money".

-Michael's response to being accused was just like that of Gary Glitter and R. Kelly--a message to the public saying "They just want money! The truth will come out. I'm the victim!"

-Wade and Safechuck's alleged experience seems awfully familiar to that of the Netflix doc "Abducted In Plain Sight".

-According to his doctor (this may be false), Michael was chemically castrated at an early age to protect his voice. He couldn't do the things he's been accused of. But he sat right there and smiled when his wife said "We have sex. It's the best sex of my life!"

-Not 100% sure if it's true but I saw online that too much time has passed and neither man can get anything from the Jackson estate. Meanwhile the two are hated by MJ fans, Wade's father is dead (Michael related? Who knows?), Safechuck's mom has been virtually kicked out of the family for her part in all of this. This is winning? Yeah, they could make some money from all of this controversy. Books, etc.

My wife said it in a way that made sense. Michael made us fall in love with him when he was "normal". We loved him so much that when things got weird we just accepted it without question. Everyone was a fan. That's how he works. He probably did the same to those kids. Before they realized how weird things really were, they were already in deep.

I don't know. I've had a lot of time to think about it. I'm not keeping a closed mind on this one. I hate that he's not here to defend himself but his history is just sketchy. We're smarter these days than we used to be...but then we still have people who think the earth is flat.

Atleast you consider all information existing and remain skeptical without making your own truths to fill the gaps and that is something to respect .



There is no evidence he did anything. The FBI, the BEST investigators in the world couldn't find anything. Sorry, but this is the Brett Kavanaugh situation all over again. Why so many years later? Its all for monetary/political gain. Also, the accusers should go to jail because they openly admitted they lied in court.

Not to mention there is a lot of holes in their story that doesn't add up.

Last edited by Snoopy - on 17 March 2019

I was born in the 90's so my only experience and knowledge about Michael Jackson, was in 2003 when the second allegation came up and I was only 10 to 12 years old. I remember seeing the infamous video with his face appearance through the years and I was freaked out. Seriously, that was a very hard image for a ten years old kid. So, as you can understand, anything bad i would hear about this man, would seriously lead me to believe it. But, after his death and after seeing all the video clips of him (as MTV played them for a whole week) and starting learning stuff about MJ, I really started to feel a bit guilty for being so critical about him. But what did I know, and what could i thnik of him, under this frame the media were creating. Even after he was found innocent, I had my doubts. I seriously believe that not only his was a really talented man, but more than that, a charismatic personality. A man who can make you love him and get inspired by his speech (let alone his music and dancing skills). So, when a charismatic man, comes along with huge success, it's easy to think that many will be dissapointed by that (especcially when they come second to a black one) and many more will try to absorb by his glory and reputation. The biggest mistake of MJ is that he just couldn't understand and mainily didn't want to understand, that the world even if you are the Jesus himslef, can't accept the fact, that you can sleep with underage children. Jackson thought that his charity campaigns, allowed him to do that. Be careful. By saying sleeping with children, under no cimcunstances I mean that anyone is anyway a child molester. But everything has each line. It's just how it is. And you have to protect your fans too. Your fans like you as an enternainer and as a humanitarian. You can't ask from them to defend you, for stuff like that. So, I trully believe that MJ always had the best intentions and under no way did he do anything innapropriate. But, every chase brought by his accusers really don't persuade me in the least. The second one it's the most obvious one as he was judged and found innocent. The first one was abviously orchestrated from a man, who disparately wanted some money, for his personal ambitions. Michael had to fight for his dignity and to show to the future malicious accusers, that he isn't an easy target. By accepting this contract, the only he achieved was to make all of them know, that by accusing and destroying someone, you can also earn a ton of money. So, as for the accusers we speak right now, seriously i ca'nt find any credibility in their words. Wade said that,he understood that all stuff MJ did to him was molestation, but after he had a child and a breakdown. So, he's trying to say that Jackson made penetration to him, but his was able to understand this after 30 years. Even if this is right, I dont understand why you have to make a whole documentary about this and why you claim so big amount of money and after your first denunciation was rejected. Another case, of ungrateful dudes who stopped gaining popularity and power with their association with MJ busines, and try to earn even more with immoral ways.



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d21lewis said:

For as long as I can remember, I've gobbled up any MJ information I could find. He was like a rare unicorn. Yes, there's TONS and tons of video of him now but his actual appearances on TV were few, post Thriller. We'd go months if not years waiting for our next MJ fix. It was always a special and magical event when we finally saw him. We always were left hungry for just a little more.

With that said, there are a few things that we just decided to ignore. Things that I'm seeing with more mature eyes that are tainting my views of Michael. Some aren't even in the documentary.

-He DEMANDED that a kid be allowed to go with him on tour. I think it was during the time of Dangerous. He wanted to take this kid from his family and got mad when they refused. He threatened the family with his layers. This wasn't either of the two from the documentary, either.

-He somehow always attached himself to the "kid if the moment". From Emmanuel (Webster) Lewis to Macaulay Culkin. Whatever kids America was fascinated with, they were hanging with Michael.

-He never really had any public relationships or relationships at all. Just these weird obsessions with people like Brooke Shields, Elizabeth Taylor, or Diana Ross. His two weddings were just...weird.

-He had drug addictions. Just like a kid, right? He had gone to rehab many times and he was smart enough to "doctor shop" for the ones who'd give him what he wanted instead of the ones who would give him what he needed.

-He straight up lied about not knowing what "skin bleaching" was. He had the creams that would give him that effect. Yes, he did have vitaligo. He also lied about his surgeries. He claimed he only had two for breathing issues when there were actually over a dozen.

-We say "Poor Michael didn't have a childhood" but he had several siblings. Like 8 or something, off the top of my head. Some older and some younger. They grew up in the same household. Michael didn't go solo until he was in his teens. If Michael didn't have a childhood, they didn't either. None of them turned out like he did.

-I HAD a childhood. It only lasted a small amount of time. Michael wanted his childhood to last for DECADES. That's just greedy. And despite being a "child", he would make some really adult decisions like buying into Sony, the Beetles catalog, etc. S

-He had so many accusers. Maybe some had questionable motives but damn. Staff, family, "victims", security. All of them just wanted money after seeing the people before them fail time and again?

-Some of the things in the documentary require a truly creative and evil mind to even come up with. Safechuck even had a collection of rings, including a "wedding ring" that Michael gave him. Things like that, things like the hotel rooms, buying a home for his parents after court--there has to be a paper trail, right?

-He paid a rumored $20-$25 million to his accusers. That should have been a more than adequate amount to pay for a defense if he was innocent. Especially with the money he had at the time. Why did he cave? Did he think he could lose? What did they have on him? Even in the doc, they defended him saying that "proved it was just about the money".

-Michael's response to being accused was just like that of Gary Glitter and R. Kelly--a message to the public saying "They just want money! The truth will come out. I'm the victim!"

-Wade and Safechuck's alleged experience seems awfully familiar to that of the Netflix doc "Abducted In Plain Sight".

-According to his doctor (this may be false), Michael was chemically castrated at an early age to protect his voice. He couldn't do the things he's been accused of. But he sat right there and smiled when his wife said "We have sex. It's the best sex of my life!"

-Not 100% sure if it's true but I saw online that too much time has passed and neither man can get anything from the Jackson estate. Meanwhile the two are hated by MJ fans, Wade's father is dead (Michael related? Who knows?), Safechuck's mom has been virtually kicked out of the family for her part in all of this. This is winning? Yeah, they could make some money from all of this controversy. Books, etc.

My wife said it in a way that made sense. Michael made us fall in love with him when he was "normal". We loved him so much that when things got weird we just accepted it without question. Everyone was a fan. That's how he works. He probably did the same to those kids. Before they realized how weird things really were, they were already in deep.

I don't know. I've had a lot of time to think about it. I'm not keeping a closed mind on this one. I hate that he's not here to defend himself but his history is just sketchy. We're smarter these days than we used to be...but then we still have people who think the earth is flat.

You can present all the logical arguments you want, but these people will keep coming up with excuses. Their fanaticism has reached a level that makes Nintendo fans seem like nihilists. It doesnt take more than a few hour of research to know that MJ was sketchy child molester. I am not talking about any copy paste links stating "facts" like the ones some have used here, I am talking about watching the man himself say and do things on videos that would have any other man in jail. None the less, its good to know that there are at-least some people who can critically think, thats all that really matters after all since the piece of shit is already dead, we can only learn and try to stop these sort of thing from happening again.

Jesus to this day there are still people defending RKelly even though there is video proof of him pissing on a 15 year old girl. Any proof you have will not convince these individuals.



omarct said:
d21lewis said:

For as long as I can remember, I've gobbled up any MJ information I could find. He was like a rare unicorn. Yes, there's TONS and tons of video of him now but his actual appearances on TV were few, post Thriller. We'd go months if not years waiting for our next MJ fix. It was always a special and magical event when we finally saw him. We always were left hungry for just a little more.

With that said, there are a few things that we just decided to ignore. Things that I'm seeing with more mature eyes that are tainting my views of Michael. Some aren't even in the documentary.

-He DEMANDED that a kid be allowed to go with him on tour. I think it was during the time of Dangerous. He wanted to take this kid from his family and got mad when they refused. He threatened the family with his layers. This wasn't either of the two from the documentary, either.

-He somehow always attached himself to the "kid if the moment". From Emmanuel (Webster) Lewis to Macaulay Culkin. Whatever kids America was fascinated with, they were hanging with Michael.

-He never really had any public relationships or relationships at all. Just these weird obsessions with people like Brooke Shields, Elizabeth Taylor, or Diana Ross. His two weddings were just...weird.

-He had drug addictions. Just like a kid, right? He had gone to rehab many times and he was smart enough to "doctor shop" for the ones who'd give him what he wanted instead of the ones who would give him what he needed.

-He straight up lied about not knowing what "skin bleaching" was. He had the creams that would give him that effect. Yes, he did have vitaligo. He also lied about his surgeries. He claimed he only had two for breathing issues when there were actually over a dozen.

-We say "Poor Michael didn't have a childhood" but he had several siblings. Like 8 or something, off the top of my head. Some older and some younger. They grew up in the same household. Michael didn't go solo until he was in his teens. If Michael didn't have a childhood, they didn't either. None of them turned out like he did.

-I HAD a childhood. It only lasted a small amount of time. Michael wanted his childhood to last for DECADES. That's just greedy. And despite being a "child", he would make some really adult decisions like buying into Sony, the Beetles catalog, etc. S

-He had so many accusers. Maybe some had questionable motives but damn. Staff, family, "victims", security. All of them just wanted money after seeing the people before them fail time and again?

-Some of the things in the documentary require a truly creative and evil mind to even come up with. Safechuck even had a collection of rings, including a "wedding ring" that Michael gave him. Things like that, things like the hotel rooms, buying a home for his parents after court--there has to be a paper trail, right?

-He paid a rumored $20-$25 million to his accusers. That should have been a more than adequate amount to pay for a defense if he was innocent. Especially with the money he had at the time. Why did he cave? Did he think he could lose? What did they have on him? Even in the doc, they defended him saying that "proved it was just about the money".

-Michael's response to being accused was just like that of Gary Glitter and R. Kelly--a message to the public saying "They just want money! The truth will come out. I'm the victim!"

-Wade and Safechuck's alleged experience seems awfully familiar to that of the Netflix doc "Abducted In Plain Sight".

-According to his doctor (this may be false), Michael was chemically castrated at an early age to protect his voice. He couldn't do the things he's been accused of. But he sat right there and smiled when his wife said "We have sex. It's the best sex of my life!"

-Not 100% sure if it's true but I saw online that too much time has passed and neither man can get anything from the Jackson estate. Meanwhile the two are hated by MJ fans, Wade's father is dead (Michael related? Who knows?), Safechuck's mom has been virtually kicked out of the family for her part in all of this. This is winning? Yeah, they could make some money from all of this controversy. Books, etc.

My wife said it in a way that made sense. Michael made us fall in love with him when he was "normal". We loved him so much that when things got weird we just accepted it without question. Everyone was a fan. That's how he works. He probably did the same to those kids. Before they realized how weird things really were, they were already in deep.

I don't know. I've had a lot of time to think about it. I'm not keeping a closed mind on this one. I hate that he's not here to defend himself but his history is just sketchy. We're smarter these days than we used to be...but then we still have people who think the earth is flat.

You can present all the logical arguments you want, but these people will keep coming up with excuses. Their fanaticism has reached a level that makes Nintendo fans seem like nihilists. It doesnt take more than a few hour of research to know that MJ was sketchy child molester. I am not talking about any copy paste links stating "facts" like the ones some have used here, I am talking about watching the man himself say and do things on videos that would have any other man in jail. None the less, its good to know that there are at-least some people who can critically think, thats all that really matters after all since the piece of shit is already dead, we can only learn and try to stop these sort of thing from happening again.

Jesus to this day there are still people defending RKelly even though there is video proof of him pissing on a 15 year old girl. Any proof you have will not convince these individuals.

He indeed presents logical arguments that you lack,all that you can do is assume and accuse people so do not think even for one second that you are in the same boat as him thinkingwise.

Bolded: It is really awesome people can think critically indeed but do not think you give us an example of it with knitting fantasy between the facts.



d21lewis said:

For as long as I can remember, I've gobbled up any MJ information I could find. He was like a rare unicorn. Yes, there's TONS and tons of video of him now but his actual appearances on TV were few, post Thriller. We'd go months if not years waiting for our next MJ fix. It was always a special and magical event when we finally saw him. We always were left hungry for just a little more.

With that said, there are a few things that we just decided to ignore. Things that I'm seeing with more mature eyes that are tainting my views of Michael. Some aren't even in the documentary.

-He DEMANDED that a kid be allowed to go with him on tour. I think it was during the time of Dangerous. He wanted to take this kid from his family and got mad when they refused. He threatened the family with his layers. This wasn't either of the two from the documentary, either.

-He somehow always attached himself to the "kid if the moment". From Emmanuel (Webster) Lewis to Macaulay Culkin. Whatever kids America was fascinated with, they were hanging with Michael.

-He never really had any public relationships or relationships at all. Just these weird obsessions with people like Brooke Shields, Elizabeth Taylor, or Diana Ross. His two weddings were just...weird.

-He had drug addictions. Just like a kid, right? He had gone to rehab many times and he was smart enough to "doctor shop" for the ones who'd give him what he wanted instead of the ones who would give him what he needed.

-He straight up lied about not knowing what "skin bleaching" was. He had the creams that would give him that effect. Yes, he did have vitaligo. He also lied about his surgeries. He claimed he only had two for breathing issues when there were actually over a dozen.

-We say "Poor Michael didn't have a childhood" but he had several siblings. Like 8 or something, off the top of my head. Some older and some younger. They grew up in the same household. Michael didn't go solo until he was in his teens. If Michael didn't have a childhood, they didn't either. None of them turned out like he did.

-I HAD a childhood. It only lasted a small amount of time. Michael wanted his childhood to last for DECADES. That's just greedy. And despite being a "child", he would make some really adult decisions like buying into Sony, the Beetles catalog, etc. S

-He had so many accusers. Maybe some had questionable motives but damn. Staff, family, "victims", security. All of them just wanted money after seeing the people before them fail time and again?

-Some of the things in the documentary require a truly creative and evil mind to even come up with. Safechuck even had a collection of rings, including a "wedding ring" that Michael gave him. Things like that, things like the hotel rooms, buying a home for his parents after court--there has to be a paper trail, right?

-He paid a rumored $20-$25 million to his accusers. That should have been a more than adequate amount to pay for a defense if he was innocent. Especially with the money he had at the time. Why did he cave? Did he think he could lose? What did they have on him? Even in the doc, they defended him saying that "proved it was just about the money".

-Michael's response to being accused was just like that of Gary Glitter and R. Kelly--a message to the public saying "They just want money! The truth will come out. I'm the victim!"

-Wade and Safechuck's alleged experience seems awfully familiar to that of the Netflix doc "Abducted In Plain Sight".

-According to his doctor (this may be false), Michael was chemically castrated at an early age to protect his voice. He couldn't do the things he's been accused of. But he sat right there and smiled when his wife said "We have sex. It's the best sex of my life!"

-Not 100% sure if it's true but I saw online that too much time has passed and neither man can get anything from the Jackson estate. Meanwhile the two are hated by MJ fans, Wade's father is dead (Michael related? Who knows?), Safechuck's mom has been virtually kicked out of the family for her part in all of this. This is winning? Yeah, they could make some money from all of this controversy. Books, etc.

My wife said it in a way that made sense. Michael made us fall in love with him when he was "normal". We loved him so much that when things got weird we just accepted it without question. Everyone was a fan. That's how he works. He probably did the same to those kids. Before they realized how weird things really were, they were already in deep.

I don't know. I've had a lot of time to think about it. I'm not keeping a closed mind on this one. I hate that he's not here to defend himself but his history is just sketchy. We're smarter these days than we used to be...but then we still have people who think the earth is flat.

dude , you are wasting your time , people refuse to believe anything, michael jackson, so innocent, he just sleep with little boys, marry them as a joke and so other sick things he did cause he was a loving caring man...

 

since i saw people defending other that wanted to fuck animals in here nothing will surprise me again



 

Not guilty until proven otherwise.

There are way too many false accounts on this and people who are just doing that for money.



Intel Core i7 8700K | 32 GB DDR 4 PC 3200 | ROG STRIX Z370-F Gaming | Nvidia RTX 2080 Ti 11GB VRAM | Asus PG27AQ gaming on 3840 x 2160 | HTC Vive Pro :3

Reached PC Masterrace level.

Peh said:
Not guilty until proven otherwise.

There are way too many false accounts on this and people who are just doing that for money.

Really? Why dont you tell me of some famous child molesters who were wrongly accused? I am very interested to know who they are.