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IGN takes issue with white male lead in Days Gone.

Forums - Politics Discussion - IGN takes issue with white male lead in Days Gone.

pokoko said:
sundin13 said:

I wasn't the one you were talking to, but yeah, they are basically synonyms.

Here is Merriam Webster:

"Trope: a common or overused theme or device : cliche"

I disagree with that definition.  The way trope is popularly used, it's often not to the point of cliche.

You.....you disagree with the dictionary on the definition of a word?

Step away from the shovel. 



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

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Video games are a business
White male are the biggest demographic when it comes to AAA console and PC games
Many games have a white male protagonist

That's it, no need for a debate, there is plenty of games where you can choose your character, there is plenty of games with character that are women or non-white.

This is not an issue.



SpokenTruth said:
pokoko said:

You think a trope is the same thing as a cliche and you're saying that I'm the one who doesn't know what it means?  That's interesting.

You might want to put the shovel down because you are digging one hell of a hole.

Let me guess, you looked it up and saw only definition #1 and then came back to reply to me about how I thought a cliche and a trope are the same thing.

Might want to check definition #2.  Cliche is literally part of that definition.

How about you not sidestep everything else I said, which was actually the important part?

Let me repeat it for you, so you won't accidently snip it again:

My point, which you seemed to miss, is that anyone who is so shallow that they look at a character they don't know anything about and think, "that's a boring trope," is a slave to their own ignorance.  The princess I described is obviously not a boring trope and I have no clue how you came to that conclusion.  Did you not read my description?  What are you even talking about?  I just explained to you that she was very well written and developed.  But I'm supposed to dismiss her because she's a blonde princess?  No. 

People who think like that, "oh, that's a trope, I can just assume I understand everything about that character," are just fooling themselves with meaningless assumptions--and risking looking like fools when their assumptions are wrong.  The article illustrates that perfectly.

Last edited by pokoko - on 06 March 2019

pokoko said:
SpokenTruth said:

You might want to put the shovel down because you are digging one hell of a hole.

Let me guess, you looked it up and saw only definition #1 and then came back to reply to me about how I thought a cliche and a trope are the same thing.

Might want to check definition #2.  Cliche is literally part of that definition.

How about you not sidestep everything else I said, which was actually the important part?

How about you not understanding anything in my posts which thereby nullifies your posts.  There is nothing for me to respond to.

You tried to call orange cats, black dogs, and fish that swim as tropes.

I'll sum up.  The IGN writer sighed and basically said, "Not another cliched character."  And you, and others, are complaining that the author is talking about some racism or sexism crap. 

It's a trope.  If I go to play a sci-fi action game, chances are the character might be the bald, space marine trope.  I'm tired of bald, space marines.  Does that mean I'm tired of bad people?  Tired of male characters?  Tire of marines?  Tired of space?  No...it's the combined traits, the overused cliche...the trope of the bald, space marine.



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

On the top of my head in recent games :
-crackdown 3 black male
-shadow of the tomb raider female
-watch dogs 2 black male
-celeste female
-uncharted 4 dlc female
-spyro trilogy dragon

Yeah, maybe there could be more, I know I would not mind at all tbh. I really don't need for games to have white male leads to identify with.

But there is more and more games where you can choose, anthem I think is one, AC odyssey, fire emblem, fallout 4 and 76, monster Hunter world, Pokemon let's go (if I remember correctly).

And I know it is not as important but many multiplayer games like fortnite, Apex, overwatch, rainbow six, etc have a diverse cast. I know it's not the same because they need many characters.

Anyway I know I can't wait to play Ellie in Last of Us 2, and I am still waiting for a Perfect Dark 2 and a Eternal Darkness 2.

But I get that this is a business, and those decisions are based on marketing



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This is the definition of a non-story.



Predictions for global hardware sales by end of 2017: PS4 - 70M. Xbone - 33M. Switch - 7M. 

"There is a need for parents to touch children first." - Tatsumi Kimishima, 2017

SpokenTruth said:
pokoko said:

How about you not sidestep everything else I said, which was actually the important part?

How about you not understanding anything in my posts which thereby nullifies your posts.  There is nothing for me to respond to.

You tried to call orange cats, black dogs, and fish that swim as tropes.

I'll sum up.  The IGN writer sighed and basically said, "Not another cliched character."  And you, and others, are complaining that the author is talking about some racism or sexism crap. 

It's a trope.  If I go to play a sci-fi action game, chances are the character might be the bald, space marine trope.  I'm tired of bald, space marines.  Does that mean I'm tired of bad people?  Tired of male characters?  Tire of marines?  Tired of space?  No...it's the combined traits, the overused cliche...the trope of the bald, space marine.

Uh ... you do realize that those examples were me mocking the need to call everything a trope, right?  I mean, "fish that swim" didn't tip you off?  For real?  Or are you just pretending you didn't know?

And what you simply seem unable to understand is that saying, "not another cliched character," WHEN HE KNEW NOTHING ABOUT THAT CHARACTER BEYOND HIS APPEARANCE, is ignorance.  It's an assumption, pure and simple, and one that he was WRONG about.  That very fact proves that it was unfounded.  

I detest your way of thinking, and that of the writer, that need to label and prejudge.  That book I referenced, I had absolutely no need to say, "blonde princess, what a boring trope."  I would much rather let the character develop, or not, and then decide how I feel about them.

Anyway, if you're tired of "serious white men" then, jesus christ, I don't know what to say.  Stay away from serious movies, books, and games, because that's just realism.  That's far, far, far more basic and unspecific than "bald space marine," to the point that the comparison just seems silly and forced.



pokoko said:
SpokenTruth said:

How about you not understanding anything in my posts which thereby nullifies your posts.  There is nothing for me to respond to.

You tried to call orange cats, black dogs, and fish that swim as tropes.

I'll sum up.  The IGN writer sighed and basically said, "Not another cliched character."  And you, and others, are complaining that the author is talking about some racism or sexism crap. 

It's a trope.  If I go to play a sci-fi action game, chances are the character might be the bald, space marine trope.  I'm tired of bald, space marines.  Does that mean I'm tired of bad people?  Tired of male characters?  Tire of marines?  Tired of space?  No...it's the combined traits, the overused cliche...the trope of the bald, space marine.

Uh ... you do realize that those examples were me mocking the need to call everything a trope, right?  I mean, "fish that swim" didn't tip you off?  For real?  Or are you just pretending you didn't know?

And what you simply seem unable to understand is that saying, "not another cliched character," WHEN HE KNEW NOTHING ABOUT THAT CHARACTER BEYOND HIS APPEARANCE, is ignorance.  It's an assumption, pure and simple, and one that he was WRONG about.  That very fact proves that it was unfounded.  

I detest your way of thinking, and that of the writer, that need to label and prejudge.  That book I referenced, I had absolutely no need to say, "blonde princess, what a boring trope."  I would much rather let the character develop, or not, and then decide how I feel about them.

Anyway, if you're tired of "serious white men" then, jesus christ, I don't know what to say.  Stay away from serious movies, books, and games, because that's just realism.  That's far, far, far more basic and unspecific than "bald space marine," to the point that the comparison just seems silly and forced.

But that's part of what a trope is. It can be an appearance, it can be a style, it can be a persona, it can anything that is cliched and overused.  Why are you not understanding that?

And where did I say anything about "serious white men"?  Or me being tired of "serious white men"?  I was under the impression the problem was "gruff white men".  Not only is there a difference between gruff and serious but there are wholly separate character traits. One deals with voice and the other demeanor.



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

Let's have a little thought experiment shall we?

Which of the following is racist?
A) Not another gruff white male.
B) Not another thuggish black male.
C) Not another curvy white woman.
D) Not another sassy Black woman.
E) All of the above.

Answer: Adding a precursor adjective does not excuse racism.

My thoughts on the game in general are "it looks boring and generic" and the the character was an extension of that. And that's all the description the game and protagonist needs from me! "Boring and generic." The sex and ethnicity doesn't factor into it at all. There's no reason to even mention either.

My favorite bit was the part about the "Gruff White Male Protagonist™-ey name as Deacon St. John." Yeah, not racist at all! And if he had instead said not another "sassy Black Woman-ey name like Shaniqua Williams," that wouldn't have been racist either right!?



StriderKiwi said:
Let's have a little thought experiment shall we?

Which of the following is racist?
A) Not another gruff white male.
B) Not another thuggish black male.
C) Not another curvy white woman.
D) Not another sassy Black woman.
E) All of the above.

Answer: Adding a precursor adjective does not excuse racism.

My thoughts on the game in general are "it looks boring and generic" and the the character was an extension of that. And that's all the description the game and protagonist needs from me! "Boring and generic." The sex and ethnicity doesn't factor into it at all. There's no reason to even mention either.

My favorite bit was the part about the "Gruff White Male Protagonist™-ey name as Deacon St. John." Yeah, not racist at all! And if he had instead said not another "sassy Black Woman-ey name like Shaniqua Williams," that wouldn't have been racist either right!?

Are A, B, C and D overused tropes or cliches?  If they are, then yes, you can call them out without it be racist.  Same with your last example.  Do we have an overabundance of sassy, black women in games?  If yes, then it's valid to be tired of that cliched character.  Better stated, a sassy, black women character is in itself racist because it's a stereotype.



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."