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Hellblade could be an interesting test case

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AngryLittleAlchemist said:
curl-6 said:

It becomes tricky though when a lot of your game's core rendering tech is entwined closely with the design of the graphics; to the point where it's not as easy as just switching off effects as in a lot of cases you'd have to rebuilt all or most of your assets to prevent the art design being fundamentally compromised.

I think what we saw in the Direct was work-in-progress Switch footage; it definitely looks softer than the existing console versions and in the scene with fire you can see its using low resolution alpha with a reduced fresh rate, which is a common cutback in Switch ports like Doom due to the system's lower bandwidth.

That's true but I think it's very likely that either the engine is more adjustable than we think, or they are making stuff to compensate for the limitations. The port has been in development since early 2018. Which means that when the game launches, it could have been in development anywhere from a year, to a year and a half. That's a long time for a port, even if the team is small. So I do think it's somewhat likely that, even if your scenario was true and it would be hard to just adjust parts of the games assets, it's possible they did in fact make new lighting/effects for the game. And by "new" I just mean "worse", lol. 

That's funny, I was just going to mention the fire sequence  

Yeah it was the fire scene that made me lean towards it being genuine Switch footage.  The cutscene bits are clearly pre-rendered, but the gameplay looks real-time. I really look forward to Digital Foundry's breakdown on this one, and not just cos that will basically decide whether or not I buy it haha



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AngryLittleAlchemist said:
curl-6 said:

Still doesn't change the fact that it's the first time a technically high end 30fps PS4/Xbone game has been brought over to Switch. Less happens on screen, but that simply means more processing power is budgeted towards asset quality, lighting, shaders, and post-processing.

I'm just guessing and am in no way a graphical expert, but maybe that's why this port is even happening? Game is very linear, not a lot of enemies on screen, and I imagine the parts where the graphics really excel over other games (the parts I bolded) are going to be cut down significantly, if not removed. If I recall correctly, there's been a few Switch games which had to change the lighting system to compensate for the lack of power, for example.

I also have to wonder if the version shown at the direct is even the Switch version, or just what a Switch version could/will theoretically look like

 Judging by how horrible AC3 and Dead by Daylight looked, I think Nintendo has a rule that all footage shown in the direct has to be from a switch build.



     

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curl-6 said:
AngryLittleAlchemist said:

That's true but I think it's very likely that either the engine is more adjustable than we think, or they are making stuff to compensate for the limitations. The port has been in development since early 2018. Which means that when the game launches, it could have been in development anywhere from a year, to a year and a half. That's a long time for a port, even if the team is small. So I do think it's somewhat likely that, even if your scenario was true and it would be hard to just adjust parts of the games assets, it's possible they did in fact make new lighting/effects for the game. And by "new" I just mean "worse", lol. 

That's funny, I was just going to mention the fire sequence  

Yeah it was the fire scene that made me lean towards it being genuine Switch footage.  The cutscene bits are clearly pre-rendered, but the gameplay looks real-time. I really look forward to Digital Foundry's breakdown on this one, and not just cos that will basically decide whether or not I buy it haha

Damn, you're buying your games based on graphics?  

I will say that if that Senua's facial animations look as legit as ever.

cycycychris said:
AngryLittleAlchemist said:

I'm just guessing and am in no way a graphical expert, but maybe that's why this port is even happening? Game is very linear, not a lot of enemies on screen, and I imagine the parts where the graphics really excel over other games (the parts I bolded) are going to be cut down significantly, if not removed. If I recall correctly, there's been a few Switch games which had to change the lighting system to compensate for the lack of power, for example.

I also have to wonder if the version shown at the direct is even the Switch version, or just what a Switch version could/will theoretically look like

 Judging by how horrible AC3 and Dead by Daylight looked, I think Nintendo has a rule that all footage shown in the direct has to be from a switch build.

Hahahahahaha, true. I'm not saying it isn't the Switch version, just wouldn't be surprised if it was more a build of what a Switch version will look like. I agree though, it probably is the Switch version. 

Also, I don't hate Ubisoft but, c'mon guys. Fuck that shit. Looked awful. You could do better! 



 

AngryLittleAlchemist said:
curl-6 said:

Yeah it was the fire scene that made me lean towards it being genuine Switch footage.  The cutscene bits are clearly pre-rendered, but the gameplay looks real-time. I really look forward to Digital Foundry's breakdown on this one, and not just cos that will basically decide whether or not I buy it haha

Damn, you're buying your games based on graphics?  

I will say that if that Senua's facial animations look as legit as ever.


Less a matter of buying it based on graphics as buying it as long as it's not a complete technical disaster where the framerate will give me a headache :P



curl-6 said:
AngryLittleAlchemist said:

Damn, you're buying your games based on graphics?  

I will say that if that Senua's facial animations look as legit as ever.

Less a matter of buying it based on graphics as buying it as long as it's not a complete technical disaster where the framerate will give me a headache :P

I understand that so much, dude. Low frame rates suck :/ 



 

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Ninja theory wouldt release a bad port of a bafta winning game that much i am certain. Im pretty sure yooka laylee was also Unreal engine? That was a really impressive port compared to base XBox. Hellblade has alot of excellent lighting and effects in place so i too cant wait for the DF analysis. If ports good ill pick it up again, just to support the game ( its that good).



I can't imagine that the game is going to look fantastic on Switch. I SO want to be proved wrong.




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curl-6 said:
Angelv577 said:
Not really. There isn't that many things happening on screen. The game is more puzzle oriented.

Still doesn't change the fact that it's the first time a technically high end 30fps PS4/Xbone game has been brought over to Switch. Less happens on screen, but that simply means more processing power is budgeted towards asset quality, lighting, shaders, and post-processing.

This is a game that was made by a few people and it was launched as a $30 game.  That should tell you something that even if the game looks impressive, that is pretty much it.  If you have played the game, you would realize this game wouldnt be a good exemple about the possibility of other graphical demnading games on switch.  Yes, focusing on less thing happening on screen means better graphics but that isnt the reality of most ps4,xb1 games that tried to push graphics as well as a lot of things happening on screen.  Most games that looks like hell blade also tried push a lot of things happening on screen as well as being more open, less linear unlike hell blade.



Keep in mind that Hellblade's "low" settings are fairly low, able to be ran at ~50 fps on an overclocked 10 year old processor and 5 year old graphics card.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBrGro3gHtc



Angelv577 said:
curl-6 said:

Still doesn't change the fact that it's the first time a technically high end 30fps PS4/Xbone game has been brought over to Switch. Less happens on screen, but that simply means more processing power is budgeted towards asset quality, lighting, shaders, and post-processing.

This is a game that was made by a few people and it was launched as a $30 game.  That should tell you something that even if the game looks impressive, that is pretty much it.  If you have played the game, you would realize this game wouldnt be a good exemple about the possibility of other graphical demnading games on switch.  Yes, focusing on less thing happening on screen means better graphics but that isnt the reality of most ps4,xb1 games that tried to push graphics as well as a lot of things happening on screen.  Most games that looks like hell blade also tried push a lot of things happening on screen as well as being more open, less linear unlike hell blade.

The difference though largely comes down to how resources are prioritized and allocated.

The limit for what is considered doable on Switch has been a moving target for a while now. First many insisted that "Switch can't handle AAA PS4/Xbone games" but Doom 2016 proved them wrong. Then it was "Okay it handle a 60fps PS4/Xbone game, but not an advanced 30fps one". If Hellblade turns out okay, this assertion will also have been proven wrong.

Megiddo said:
Keep in mind that Hellblade's "low" settings are fairly low, able to be ran at ~50 fps on an overclocked 10 year old processor and 5 year old graphics card.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBrGro3gHtc

Is that 5-year-old desktop GPU though? Cos if so even a card from 2013 is likely going to have more grunt to it than a mobile GPU from 2015. Furthermore, we can see here that the aesthetic of the game is basically completely broken by running at these settings. It's more likely the Switch port will try to maintain the core look as much as possible which means it won't have the luxury of stripping things back in this way. The footage shown in the direct suggests they're taking an approach closer to Doom 2016 and Wolfenstein II where as much of the rendering pipeline as possible is kept intact with the tradeoffs being made in things like resolution, alpha, etc.

Nogamez said:
Ninja theory wouldt release a bad port of a bafta winning game that much i am certain. Im pretty sure yooka laylee was also Unreal engine? That was a really impressive port compared to base XBox. Hellblade has alot of excellent lighting and effects in place so i too cant wait for the DF analysis. If ports good ill pick it up again, just to support the game ( its that good).

Here's hoping they have enough pride in their product to ensure the port is a good one. Yooka Laylee ran on Unity, but there are examples of Unreal Engine 4 working well on Switch, such as Snake Pass, Fortnite, and Octopath Traveler. None of those were even close to as advanced as Hellblade though so it's still uncharted territory for the Switch.