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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Crackdown 3 Review Thread - MC: 60 OC: 62

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So far the game is meeting all expectations. Very addictive.



Insert Coin. Press START. You Died. Continue?

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Mr Puggsly said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

I played and beat Crackdown 1. https://www.xboxgamertag.com/search/cereboralbore/ That's my ultra-old XBL profile. I had to make a new one due to realizing, I missspelled it, but yeah there you go. 

Ah okay, well you must not remember the game much.

Those HLTB stats seem exaggerated to me. I don't think it takes nearly that many hours to complete everything and I wouldn't even recommend trying to do it. Trying to find every orb or doing all the driving missions is incredibly boring. That's epitome of filler, but not unusual for open world games.

As for Crackdown 3, you can't do everything in 13 hours. Nope. I feel those completion stats are generally inaccurate. At the rate I'm going its gonna take like 13 hours to finish the campaign.

I get that feeling with a lot of games too. HLTB is just the average time to beat it. Some people are way faster, and others take way longer. I swear Xenoblade 2 took me almost 300 hours, but a lot of people were doing completionist runs at 150 hours. But I'm the sort that meanders around and takes his sweet time doing things. I'll explore every nook and cranny of a game before I move on. Then there's the kid at my local game shop back in Phoenix who beat Enter the Gungeon in four hours. He was just really damned good at Shoot 'em ups. Anyway my point is we have to keep in mind that other people play differently than us, and this is just the average time. 

We can point out other games' average times though, and come to a reasonable conclusion that Crackdown 3 is short for an open world game. 



zorg1000 said:
yvanjean said: 

Personally for me:
9.0+ Masterpiece
8.0-8.5 Great game
7- 7.5 Good game
6.0-6.5 Bad Game

Very odd ranges, is there a reason you dont list 8.6-8.9, 7.6-7.9 & 6.6-6.9?

Well in Canada for post-graduation this is the scale we use and that i'm personally used to using. You need to get 66%(C+) to pass. You put more value on the letter Grade. 

In term of game ranking a pass C+ would be 6.5/10 or 6.6 & above. 

Letter Grading System - Graduate students

Descriptor

Letter Grade

Grade Point Value

Excellent

A+

A

A-

4.0

4.0

3.7

Good

B+

B

3.3

3.0

Satisfactory

B-

C+

2.7

2.3

Failure

C

C-

D+

D

F

2.0

1.7

1.3

1.0

0.0



yvanjean said:
zorg1000 said:

Very odd ranges, is there a reason you dont list 8.6-8.9, 7.6-7.9 & 6.6-6.9?

Well in Canada for post-graduation this is the scale we use and that i'm personally used to using. You need to get 66%(C+) to pass. You put more value on the letter Grade. 

In term of game ranking a pass C+ would be 6.5/10 or 6.6 & above. 

Letter Grading System - Graduate students

Descriptor

Letter Grade

Grade Point Value

Excellent

A+

A

A-

4.0

4.0

3.7

Good

B+

B

3.3

3.0

Satisfactory

B-

C+

2.7

2.3

Failure

C

C-

D+

D

F

2.0

1.7

1.3

1.0

0.0

Still seems like 8.0-8.9, 7.0-7.9, 6.0-6.9 is the correct way of using your grading scale.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

I tried the game yesterday and all I am gonna say is that it feels like a xb360 game. Definitely not my type of game. Is it really a 60 meta game?, I don't know. Don't feel like playing the game anymore.



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zorg1000 said:

Still seems like 8.0-8.9, 7.0-7.9, 6.0-6.9 is the correct way of using your grading scale.

It's all personal preference... really what is the difference between 6.3 and 6.4 or 7.1 and 7.2.  

There many grading scale on metacritic that use a 5 stars system without using 1/2 stars. So, there a huge gap between a each stars.  Some critics are ask to review game in genre that they don't enjoy. 

But, fortunately once you get enough score the Meta score stabilized. If you were to read all 73 critics for Crackdown 3 most of them tend to talk about how the game fail to live up to their expectations, match the development initial ambition for the game and doesn't innovate enough.  If it wasn't for gamepass and it was any other game and it received such low score I would of not bothered playing. 

Crackdown 3 got almost 20 reviews that are 50 and under, to me that's a broken game, buggy, unplayable & un-enjoyable game.  Over 25% reviewed this game has trash. 

I think it's a fun & enjoyable game that deserve a better score because you have the option to play it with gamepass. 



Cerebralbore101 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

I don't believe that's accurate. In the original Crackdown you basically kill the bosses and upgrade all your stats. Crackdown 3 actually has more stuff to do.

I COULD elaborate. But why should I bother? Its evident you don't know anything about these games really.

I played and beat Crackdown 1. https://www.xboxgamertag.com/search/cereboralbore/ That's my ultra-old XBL profile. I had to make a new one due to realizing, I missspelled it, but yeah there you go. 

But you’re using random stats from a website to factually state Crackdown 3 is a “huge step back” from CD1 in terms of content. So you’ve beaten Crackdown, exactly what in the game do you think takes over 40 hours for a “completionist”? 

Also comparisons with games using this website is dumb as hell. Thanks to the proliferation of websites that give you guides on achievements and trophies I could easily look up a map to see all the orbs and complete the game much faster. It’s just not a reliable way to compare the games. There’s much more to do in CD3 and of course multiplayer.



Cerebralbore101 said:
DonFerrari said:

 Instead of cancelling yet another failure development, Phil Spencer and co at Microsoft tried to salvage the work done so far and made a half decent game. Including Terry Crews to the game really help it stand out for what was a very mediocre effort help give character to the game.

 

This is what you said... not that they took a half decent, but that they made a half decent game. Terry Crews doesn't change the game one iota. It certainly can help promotion or some people enjoyment, but the game doesn't change because of he.

So again your evaluation of half decent doesn't deserve a 75 score.

Also I agree that a game shouldn't be evaluated on expectations, but on what it delivers. But matter of fact unless you think there is a conspiracy of reviewers it seems like they don't like what was delivered more than just taking points on their expectations. If we were discussing a 90+ game that deserve let's say 95 but lost some points in some reviews because the reviewer wanted stuff that is his like not what the game is about that would be a different discussion.

Could swear I remember a Metacritic thread where some people were defending that for game 70 is average/mediocre and other group defended that average would be 50 up to 60. VGC really lacks a consensus on what thresholds we separate broken, bad, regular, good, great, excellent, epic, etc.

Opencritic has a formula for whether a game is tagged as Weak, Fair, Strong, or Mighty. 

The OpenCritic rating is based on the percentile ranking of each game's Top Critic Average:

  • Mighty: Games averaging in the 90th or above percentile
  • Strong: Games averaging in the 60th to 90th percentile
  • Fair: Games averaging in the 30th to 60th percentile
  • Weak: Games averaging in the bottom 30 percent of games

The Top Critic Average cutoffs happen to be 84 and above, 75-83, 66-74, and 65 and below. Note that, for a game to have a Top Critic Average, it must have at least 3 numeric reviews from top critics.

In order to be weak, a game has to be in the bottom 30 percent. 

So for Opencritic any game below 65 is considered weak? This clearly shows 66-74 is on mediocre/average as we usually see claimed in VGC.

Mr Puggsly said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

I thought it would take 30 days for enough people to do completionist runs. But I guess not. Enough people have beaten it.

https://howlongtobeat.com/game.php?id=38828

49 people beat the game already. Crackdown 1 was a 43.5 hours long for completionists. https://howlongtobeat.com/game.php?id=1964 Crackdown 3 is 13.5 hours long for completionists. The game was a massive step back from the original 2007 release, in terms of content. 

I don't believe that's accurate. In the original Crackdown you basically kill the bosses and upgrade all your stats. Other than that you chase orb things and do driving missions. Crackdown 3 actually has more stuff to do.

I COULD elaborate. But why should I bother? Its evident you don't know anything about these games really.

Well that is collective of people experience, what you see can be totally different though.

Mr Puggsly said:
DonFerrari said:  

How many low tier games do you remember appearing in so many E3s, having hype and touting a special feature of the platform?

Games doesn't lose score only on the merit of being buggy. And on being one of the most polished, do you have any source?

Why people that want to have an opinion needs to watch a specific video that praises the game you want to address? Why all other reviewers aren't acceptable to base the opinion?

I'd say Crackdown 3 is more like mid tier, not low tier. The game was at a bunch of E3s because of delays and the MP was ultimately thrown together.

Again, games as polished and feel as tight as Crackdown 3 generally don't score that low. My source? I say that as someone who has played numerous UE4 games on Xbox One and the Digital Foundry guys were also impressed.

I'm suggesting people who are in this thread and know nothing about this game (like yourself) should watch that video. Its a fair analysis and will likely change your views a bit.

You only claim it is fair because it defends your point, that is the issue.

Ok you considering it mid tier, even if from what we see from MS along the years put it as high tier to them. But that really isn't much of a worthy discussion.

Sincerely I find it very hard to believe that the best implementation of UE4 would be on the lower end of the scores (we do know that very few game score lower than 60), and even without playing it I also wouldn't see 60 as an appropriate score for a game that works well and deliver what it's supposed to do.

If the gaming score really used full spectrum from 0 to 10, instead of 5 to 10, then perhaps 60 would be a fitting score, like a little above average. But on our use of the scale 7-7.5 seems more likely to be right.

yvanjean said:
DonFerrari said:

 Instead of cancelling yet another failure development, Phil Spencer and co at Microsoft tried to salvage the work done so far and made a half decent game. Including Terry Crews to the game really help it stand out for what was a very mediocre effort help give character to the game.

 

This is what you said... not that they took a half decent, but that they made a half decent game. Terry Crews doesn't change the game one iota. It certainly can help promotion or some people enjoyment, but the game doesn't change because of he.

So again your evaluation of half decent doesn't deserve a 75 score.

Also I agree that a game shouldn't be evaluated on expectations, but on what it delivers. But matter of fact unless you think there is a conspiracy of reviewers it seems like they don't like what was delivered more than just taking points on their expectations. If we were discussing a 90+ game that deserve let's say 95 but lost some points in some reviews because the reviewer wanted stuff that is his like not what the game is about that would be a different discussion.

Could swear I remember a Metacritic thread where some people were defending that for game 70 is average/mediocre and other group defended that average would be 50 up to 60. VGC really lacks a consensus on what thresholds we separate broken, bad, regular, good, great, excellent, epic, etc.

That's the main problem there no standard for rating. To some people a 4/10 doesn't mean it's broken/awful game. 

We already talk about this in a previous thread but for Metacritic they rank game in three categories:
Positive 75-100
Mixed  50-74
Negative 0-50

Personally for me:
9.0+ Masterpiece
8.0-8.5 Great game
7- 7.5 Good game
6.0-6.5 Bad Game
anything under 6 is Broken or Awful game

There are many issues with ranking this game, should you consider the price? I don't think a bad Multiplayer that can be ignored should lower the score of the overall game review. If you do consider the price you must also consider the Gamepass.

Full retail price - Campaign and MP - I would rate this game a 6.
If you ignore the price entirely and rate the package I would rate this game 7.5
Gamepass  - I would rate this game a 8    

You miss some intervals in your scale =p and yes considering how we have scores 6-6.5 should have only bad games with under 6 broken. And on that I hardly see justifiable to give CD3 a 6.

And yes, it is a mess even on Metacritic themselves to have any consensus.

Price and scope is taken in consideration. I'm pretty adamant that they evaluate Indies, AAA, platforms different scales. Because we can certainly find a plethora of worse games but that had smaller scope and expectation scoring better than CD3.

And as much as I don't like MP and could completely ignore it, if it's part of the package it should be considered. Of course a critic could put it like "Solid and fun campaign, 7.5, dragged by a shitty MP" on the review.

yvanjean said:
zorg1000 said:

Very odd ranges, is there a reason you dont list 8.6-8.9, 7.6-7.9 & 6.6-6.9?

Well in Canada for post-graduation this is the scale we use and that i'm personally used to using. You need to get 66%(C+) to pass. You put more value on the letter Grade. 

In term of game ranking a pass C+ would be 6.5/10 or 6.6 & above. 

Letter Grading System - Graduate students

Descriptor

Letter Grade

Grade Point Value

Excellent

A+

A

A-

4.0

4.0

3.7

Good

B+

B

3.3

3.0

Satisfactory

B-

C+

2.7

2.3

Failure

C

C-

D+

D

F

2.0

1.7

1.3

1.0

0.0

I much prefer continuous than discrete =p



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Just as a general statement, y'all need to stop devaluing negative reviews just so you can feel good about yourselves.

Bad or middling reviews don't mean a game doesn't have value. A game can get a 5/10 and still be enjoyable for certain people, you know. A game like this which has an average review aggregate around 60% means that it's overall not good (especially when compared to other games similar to it, within its genre, or overall), but that doesn't mean it's not fun. There are people out there who LOVE Fallout 76, and that was a dumpster fire of a game.

That doesn't mean it was a good game.

I actually kinda feel sorry for anyone desperate enough to cling to such small victories. What sort of gaming life do you have that THIS is the hill you want to die upon?

Furthermore, Xbox just can't catch a break. Three of its last four exclusives (State of Decay 2, Sea of Thieves, Forza Horizon 4, and Crackdown 3) all had bad to terrible reviews, ESPECIALLY compared to PS4 and Switch. When Sony's putting out games like God of War and Spider-Man while Nintendo is putting out stuff like Super Smash Bros. Ultimate and Octopath Traveler, it's kind of sad to see the only great game to come out on Xbox One over the past two years has been Forza.

I did a bit of digging on GameRankings (I prefer it to MetaCritic, personally; way easier to sort and search for what I'm looking for and 2 more decimal places) and I found the following data in 2018. Now, these are for console exclusives, not including PC or last-gen/portable games, just games that exist solely on PS4 but not on Switch/Xbox One, On Switch but not PS4/Xbox One, or on Xbox One but not PS4/Switch. They also needed to have 20 or more reviews to be counted (Sadly few indies for this reason; had to be consistent with the rules; that sad we both know that PS4 and Switch would be GREATLY helped if I lowered the review threshold). So, for exclusives, we have:

Sony had 4 games with a 90% or higher
Nintendo had 1 game with 90% or higher
Microsoft had 1 game with 90% or higher

Sony had 9 games with 85% or higher
Nintendo had 3 games with 85% or higher
Microsoft had 1 game with 90% or higher.

Sony had 12 games with 80% or higher
Nintendo had 6 games with 80% or higher
Microsoft had 1 game with 80% or higher (Seeing a pattern here?)

Sony had 13 games with 75% or higher
Nintendo had 11 games with 75% or higher
Microsoft had 1 game with 75% or higher (Still only Forza Horizon 4)

Sony had 14 games with 70% or higher
Nintendo had 14 games with 70% or higher
Microsoft had....drum roll please........1 game with 70% or higher.

Now, some of those games went multiplatform this year or will be (HEre's looking at you, Dragon Quest XI), but for 2018, those are the stats. As you can see, Sony and Nintendo had a BUNCH of exclusive titles to come out on their respective platform. anything under 70% tends to be overlooked (I used to only go 80% or higher, then down to 75% and now 70%, but I don't see myself going down any farther than that since at this point we start to get to games that aren't that well liked at all, even if the 'reviews' had them pegged as 'decent').

So when people criticize Microsoft for not having any exclusives, that's why. They released a few games in 2018 and 2019, so here are Microsoft's Exclusives that got 20 reviews or more and their GameRankings %:

92.24% - Forza Horizon 4
67.68% - Sea of Thieves
65.67% - State of Decay 2
61.57% - Crackdown 3

Not only is that number low (only 4 games), but outside of Forza they're all middling to poorly reviewed. Does that mean the games lack value? Hell no, wanton destruction or squad-based pirating have their place, as do zombie survival games...they're just not good examples of that.

Point is: Dynasty Warriors 9 got better reviews than Crackdown 3, and even Jim Sterling hated that game and he's a total lover of that franchise!

So yeah, that's the bottom line. Microsoft's exclusives suck lately. They have for years. Even if you go back to 2017 to add Cuphead, Forza 7, and Halo Wars 2, it still pales in comparison to the output of either PS4 or Switch. Xbox One, spread between 2017, 2018, and 2019 doesn't compare to a single year of either PS4 or Switch. Nintendo, in less than 2 full years, has already got an exclusive lineup far better than what Xbox One has accrued in more than five years. That there, that's a problem. Maybe instead of clinging to your brand loyalty, it might be time to jump ship. No point in being sunk with it. 

P.S. Super Lucky's Tail, which came out in 2017 and therefore wasn't involved in this discussion for the most part, got 63.95%, making THAT game get better reviews than crackdown.)

Last edited by Runa216 - on 20 February 2019

My Console Library:

PS5, Switch, XSX

PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, WiiU, Wii, GCN, N64 SNES, XBO, 360

3DS, DS, GBA, Vita, PSP, Android

DonFerrari said:

I don't think we will be free of Don having influenced the design of the nextbox because they start developing a new system as soon as the current one launches.

On People saying Phill haven't promissed in the past https://www.polygon.com/2015/4/20/8456445/phil-spencer-e3-2015-first-party-exclusive-games and also don't remember there being that many 1st party on their E3 on that year.

https://www.destructoid.com/-paying-for-third-party-exclusives-isn-t-our-long-term-strategy-says-xbox-s-phil-spencer-297090.phtml

http://hardwareblitz.com/microsoft-invested-expanding-first-party-studios-says-phil-spencer/

http://fortune.com/2014/04/25/new-xbox-head-phil-spencer-discusses-evolving-games-industry/ and this one is funny when talking about the mistakes of the reveal he doesn't criticize the ideas they had on what Xbox should be nor the mandate Kinect, he said they could have made their vision more clear. So here also goes that defense of Spencer having fought back and nothing Don Mattrick done being also on his responsability.

They showed a lot of first party stuff at E3 2015. Gears 4, Halo 5, Forza, Fable, ReCore, Gears Ultimate, Cuphead, Rare Replay, and Sea of Thieves. That's nine games. Also remember that Papa Phil considers anything with a partnership to be first party, so thats why he'd consider Cuphead first party. That's a ton of content.

The rest of your links don't provide an ounce of credibility to your argument. Did you even read them? The only relevant one is the first one where he says that they will increase their commitment to first party studios... and it's from 2018, aka last year, the year they bought like 6 studios. The second one discusses no more buying third party exclusives and that seems to be the case? Maybe I'm mistaken but I can't think of any after Tomb Raider. The last one is mostly generic PR stuff throwing out names of exclusive launch window games and other exclusives not released yet.

So in those links, in one he said they were going to commit harder to their studios and they went out and bought a bunch of them. What a liar. /s