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PS4 Super Slim and PS4 Pro Slim?

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Will we get PS4 Super Slim and/or PS4 Pro Slim?

PS4 Super Slim and PS4 Pro Slim 17 35.42%
 
only PS4 Super Slim 4 8.33%
 
only PS4 Pro Slim 7 14.58%
 
no new hardware until PS5 20 41.67%
 
Total:48

I think we are getting both. But if it is just one, it will be the regular Super Slim

The thing is that whenever this kind of revision happens, the design is altered a little. The PRO resembles the Slim looks and not the original; so in order to have Brand consistency, when they release a Super Slim PS4, they will most likely release a PRO slim (or at least a revision changing the design).



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DonFerrari said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:
If heat production will get low enough to make them possible, entry level Super Slim and Pro Slim both make sense, they give slightly lower pruduction costs, considerably lower warehousing and shipping costs and they make happy retailers too as they use less shelf space, and on top of all this, the Japanese market likes slim and super slim versions a lot.

And there is a good bunch of people that double or triple dip (some would sell their original system though). So a new model will attract some sales.

Although I had a PS3 super slim coming the year before PS4, but Sony never made it.

twintail said:

Both Slim and Pro will have price cuts by the time the PS5 arrives; I doubt they are going to let the PS4 just die off like that.

But that said I disagree with the idea that they will get more PSN accounts (I assume you mean subscribers for online). At $200 you are most likely hitting an audience that doesn't have the money for a continual subscription, or are getting a PS4 as an additional device to what they ow, meaning they dont need the subscription most likely.

i dont think there is a guarantee that get more money from a lower PS4 than what they have it priced at now.

A price cut i time for Days Gone or TloU2 will definitely help with mass market appeal, but I am sure it is done in time for PS5s arrival at least, creating various tiers for users to jump into.

People are complex. Some will look at above 200 USD for the system and frown, but pay 60 USD for PSN+ or new games without much problem. It all depends on how much the person value the system and the service/game.

I rather pay 1000 USD on the system and games start selling for less than 30 USD, than pay 200 USD on the system and games for 60 USD, because the HW for 1000 can have much more power than for 200.

I totally agree. I dont want to say otherwise. I'm not sure I see that as a big enough group. I could be wrong



RaptorChrist said:
potato_hamster said:

quite wishful, yeah. It literally doesn't make any sense.

I don't think this is what melbye was trying to say. Creating Slim versions of both consoles while also planning a PS5 release in the near future seems like a tall order, and if the difference in manufacturing cost of the Pro vs Original is small enough, it wouldn't be that far-fetched to imagine a world where Sony phases out the regular PS4 and sells a single SKU, the New Super Slim PS4 Pro Deluxe.

And it's really not that bad for OG PS4 owners. All you'd need to do is flip the secret hatch on the back of your unit to reveal a map which will lead you to a minecart. Hop into the minecart, descend into the crust of the Earth, and eventually you will find the secret headquarters where the Pro units are dispensed.

I did just like you said and now I'm walking around lost in the middle of the earth, who the hell decided to make maps that guide you into the fiery depths of the earth out of highly inflammable material .



twintail said:
DonFerrari said:

And there is a good bunch of people that double or triple dip (some would sell their original system though). So a new model will attract some sales.

Although I had a PS3 super slim coming the year before PS4, but Sony never made it.

People are complex. Some will look at above 200 USD for the system and frown, but pay 60 USD for PSN+ or new games without much problem. It all depends on how much the person value the system and the service/game.

I rather pay 1000 USD on the system and games start selling for less than 30 USD, than pay 200 USD on the system and games for 60 USD, because the HW for 1000 can have much more power than for 200.

I totally agree. I dont want to say otherwise. I'm not sure I see that as a big enough group. I could be wrong

Well I believe if they released PS5 for 1000 USD even if a very beefy console, it would totally flop. Too few people would be willing to pay for it even if they end up putting 2000 USD in games later.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363


Robert_Downey_Jr. said:

The rate of decline is greatly reduced I think (though there’s no way to tell what sales would have been if they hadn’t cut) and I think getting under $200 moves it into impulse buy territory plus many people just buy late once they see a certain price.  I think it helped ps2 leg it out being under $200 and it would have helped ps3 decline much less quickly.

Let's put it in a different context. As I mentioned, the PS3 got a $50 price cut in Aug. 2011, dropping it to $249. The 360 did not, and the price of the 360 S/E remained the same from 2010 through to end of the 360's life. What differences were there in sales trajectories?

Here's the YoY change in U.S. hardware sales for the Sept.-Dec. period of 2011:

360: +5.9%
PS3: +6.9%

Here's the change for the Q1-Q3 period in 2012:

360: -31.7%
PS3: -22.3%

Here's the change in annual sales as a whole in 2012:

360: -27%
PS3: -24%

Overall, while the PS3 did fare better in terms of increases/decreases, it wasn't significant. There was little net benefit to be gained from the drop to $249. If we assume the PS3 would have dropped the same amount as the 360 in the absence of that price cut, then that might have netted Sony about 300k fewer units from Sept. 2011 to Dec. 2012, roughly 1% of the PS3's total lifetime sales in the U.S. Extrapolating this globally, the PS3 might have netted at most a million fewer units without a price cut. Also, the overall 360/PS3 split in the U.S. barely changed, so in terms of market share the price cut had even less impact.

The question remains, "Will a few hundred thousand extra units be enough to justify a $50 per-unit loss in revenue?" That's something the bean counters at Sony will have to figure out. But the data we have does not suggest that a late-life price cut for the PS4 will help tremendously. And the hope that they'll issue a $100 price cut is wishful thinking at best, because such a deep price cut this late in a generation has never happened before in the history of the console market to my knowledge, at least not with any major console.



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PS4 Portable



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1gWECYYOSo

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DonFerrari said:
twintail said:

I totally agree. I dont want to say otherwise. I'm not sure I see that as a big enough group. I could be wrong

Well I believe if they released PS5 for 1000 USD even if a very beefy console, it would totally flop. Too few people would be willing to pay for it even if they end up putting 2000 USD in games later.

A stand alone PS5 at $1,000 would be a terrible decision. A PS5 as part of Sony's Elevated Standards line, that sits as an enthusiast level option, along side a $399.99 PS5 Basic, and a $599.99 PS5 Pro, that would be a worthwhile market. I have said this a thousand times. I don't get why Sony sells enthusiast level products in their Walkman Line, Xperia Line, and Bravia Line, yet we still don't have an enthusiast level PlayStation. PlayStation sells more than the rest of these products combined, and is actually a profitable business, with a very loyal fan base. If any product Sony sells should have an enthusiast level offering, it is PlayStation.

With games being built with dynamic frame rates, and resolution, needing nothing more than additional power to achieve locked performance (as seen with non enhanced games on PS4 Pro, XBO S, and XBO X), you can not convince me that there are not a few million PlayStation Fanatics out their that would not plop down the cash for a PS5 that could deliver uncompromised performance.

Signalstar said:
PS4 Portable

One Day!!!



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10/03/2010 

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KBG29 said:
DonFerrari said:

Well I believe if they released PS5 for 1000 USD even if a very beefy console, it would totally flop. Too few people would be willing to pay for it even if they end up putting 2000 USD in games later.

A stand alone PS5 at $1,000 would be a terrible decision. A PS5 as part of Sony's Elevated Standards line, that sits as an enthusiast level option, along side a $399.99 PS5 Basic, and a $599.99 PS5 Pro, that would be a worthwhile market. I have said this a thousand times. I don't get why Sony sells enthusiast level products in their Walkman Line, Xperia Line, and Bravia Line, yet we still don't have an enthusiast level PlayStation. PlayStation sells more than the rest of these products combined, and is actually a profitable business, with a very loyal fan base. If any product Sony sells should have an enthusiast level offering, it is PlayStation.

With games being built with dynamic frame rates, and resolution, needing nothing more than additional power to achieve locked performance (as seen with non enhanced games on PS4 Pro, XBO S, and XBO X), you can not convince me that there are not a few million PlayStation Fanatics out their that would not plop down the cash for a PS5 that could deliver uncompromised performance.

Signalstar said:
PS4 Portable

One Day!!!

It's because you ignore it every time it's explained to you. Unlike their Walkman, Xperia and Bravia, the people making content for the Playstation have to develop for each and every performance specification. Just like the PS4 Pro, everyone besides Sony and other rare exceptions would support this high performance console in the most minimal way they can get away with and nothing more.

Console video games don't scale the way you believe they do. If they did, the Nintendo Switch would be getting pretty much every multi-platform third party title, or at least ones that use multi-platform focused engines like unity. But you don't see that, do you? Developers have to put in the same special effort they always did. It doesn't appear to be any meaningful gains in development to port a PS4 game to the Switch than there was to port a PS3 game to the Vita. How do you explain that if " games [are] being built with dynamic frame rates, and resolution, needing nothing more than additional power to achieve locked performance" the opposite should be true, shouldn't it?

You're more likely to see Sony drop the pro model next time around than you are to see them make a super high performance model. The Pro experiment was not a success. Third parties have largely ignored it. Sony had to figure out a way to do additional post-processing to render in 4K while emulating regular PS4 functionality because third parties weren't supporting it any more than they had to. You know that"enhancement" feature actually runs games poorer than they would if developers actually took the time to support the PS4 pro properly, right?



KBG29 said:
DonFerrari said:

Well I believe if they released PS5 for 1000 USD even if a very beefy console, it would totally flop. Too few people would be willing to pay for it even if they end up putting 2000 USD in games later.

A stand alone PS5 at $1,000 would be a terrible decision. A PS5 as part of Sony's Elevated Standards line, that sits as an enthusiast level option, along side a $399.99 PS5 Basic, and a $599.99 PS5 Pro, that would be a worthwhile market. I have said this a thousand times. I don't get why Sony sells enthusiast level products in their Walkman Line, Xperia Line, and Bravia Line, yet we still don't have an enthusiast level PlayStation. PlayStation sells more than the rest of these products combined, and is actually a profitable business, with a very loyal fan base. If any product Sony sells should have an enthusiast level offering, it is PlayStation.

With games being built with dynamic frame rates, and resolution, needing nothing more than additional power to achieve locked performance (as seen with non enhanced games on PS4 Pro, XBO S, and XBO X), you can not convince me that there are not a few million PlayStation Fanatics out their that would not plop down the cash for a PS5 that could deliver uncompromised performance.

Signalstar said:
PS4 Portable

One Day!!!

PS4Pro have double power than PS4 vanilla, and still you see minimal notable gains. This super premium would have much more power probably 4-6x almost a gen difference. But the games to show it would be very few, so unless Sony do it for mindless profit without concern to have its devs showing it off, there is no point in it.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363


potato_hamster said:
KBG29 said:

A stand alone PS5 at $1,000 would be a terrible decision. A PS5 as part of Sony's Elevated Standards line, that sits as an enthusiast level option, along side a $399.99 PS5 Basic, and a $599.99 PS5 Pro, that would be a worthwhile market. I have said this a thousand times. I don't get why Sony sells enthusiast level products in their Walkman Line, Xperia Line, and Bravia Line, yet we still don't have an enthusiast level PlayStation. PlayStation sells more than the rest of these products combined, and is actually a profitable business, with a very loyal fan base. If any product Sony sells should have an enthusiast level offering, it is PlayStation.

With games being built with dynamic frame rates, and resolution, needing nothing more than additional power to achieve locked performance (as seen with non enhanced games on PS4 Pro, XBO S, and XBO X), you can not convince me that there are not a few million PlayStation Fanatics out their that would not plop down the cash for a PS5 that could deliver uncompromised performance.

One Day!!!

It's because you ignore it every time it's explained to you. Unlike their Walkman, Xperia and Bravia, the people making content for the Playstation have to develop for each and every performance specification. Just like the PS4 Pro, everyone besides Sony and other rare exceptions would support this high performance console in the most minimal way they can get away with and nothing more.

Console video games don't scale the way you believe they do. If they did, the Nintendo Switch would be getting pretty much every multi-platform third party title, or at least ones that use multi-platform focused engines like unity. But you don't see that, do you? Developers have to put in the same special effort they always did. It doesn't appear to be any meaningful gains in development to port a PS4 game to the Switch than there was to port a PS3 game to the Vita. How do you explain that if " games [are] being built with dynamic frame rates, and resolution, needing nothing more than additional power to achieve locked performance" the opposite should be true, shouldn't it?

You're more likely to see Sony drop the pro model next time around than you are to see them make a super high performance model. The Pro experiment was not a success. Third parties have largely ignored it. Sony had to figure out a way to do additional post-processing to render in 4K while emulating regular PS4 functionality because third parties weren't supporting it any more than they had to. You know that"enhancement" feature actually runs games poorer than they would if developers actually took the time to support the PS4 pro properly, right?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with minimal support. It is about Sony offering their games at a level that takes full advantage of their TVs. Premium consoles are not about offering anything other than higher resolution, better frame rate, better AA, better shadows, better draw distance. A premium console does not mean they are going to develop completely different assets, it is just a better looking/performing way to experience the same content. I don't know where you get the idea that Pro was not a success or supported, a Sony executive just said it was a success and a necessary evolution. We will definitely have multiple PS5 offerings next gen.

http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2018/12/ps4_pro_has_been_a_good_example_of_necessary_evolution_says_sony

 

Switch has nothing to do with scalability on PlayStation. Switch to PS4 is no different than PS3 to PS Vita, it is nothing like PS4 to PS4 Pro. Switch uses a different architecture than PS4/XBO/PC, so of course it takes extra work to port games to Switch. When Sony was building games for PS3 (Cell/Nvidia), PS Vita (ARM/PowerVR), and PS4 (X86/Radeon), that was a ton of work. With PS4 and PS4 Pro there is no porting, PS4 Pro runs the same code as PS4, not only are they both X86/Radoen, they are mostly the same exact X86/Radeon technology. Adding in support for the Pro's additional CU's take very liitle effort.

Here is Mark Cerny's exact quote “The target was to make sure that support [for the PS4 Pro] could be done for a fraction of a percent of the overall effort,” Cerny said to Gamasutra. “And I do mean a fraction of a percent. I mean, I’ve run the math, and it’s 0.2 or 0.3 percent for these projects — some of them. So at that point, I think it’s very natural for the development community to support the platform.”

https://gamingbolt.com/mark-cerny-converting-a-base-ps4-game-to-ps4-pro-version-is-just-0-2-or-0-3-percent-of-the-overall-effort

That means on a 5 year project, you are looking at about a week to tune in Pro support. This is with Sony offering a new system mid generation, without developers aware of the additional hardware. A future console that is built with multiple tiers in mind from the start would take even less work, as the Hardware, API's, and Development Tools are all be built from the ground up with scalability in mind. 

 

As for your final question, yes I know that Boost Mode only takes advantage of the clock boosts on the CPU and GPU, and does not take advantage of the 18 additional CU's on the Pro GPU. That just proves that extra performance can be absolutely free. If a PS5 Pro and a PS5 Premium both had the same CPU and GPU, but the Pro runs at 3.2GHz and 1400MHz, while the Premium offers 4.0GHz and 2000MHz, that would offer a significant performance boost for the Premium. In this situation it would take no additional work from Sony, it would just be a matter of setting aside the highest quality PS5 chips exclusively for the Premium model. 

DonFerrari said:
KBG29 said:

A stand alone PS5 at $1,000 would be a terrible decision. A PS5 as part of Sony's Elevated Standards line, that sits as an enthusiast level option, along side a $399.99 PS5 Basic, and a $599.99 PS5 Pro, that would be a worthwhile market. I have said this a thousand times. I don't get why Sony sells enthusiast level products in their Walkman Line, Xperia Line, and Bravia Line, yet we still don't have an enthusiast level PlayStation. PlayStation sells more than the rest of these products combined, and is actually a profitable business, with a very loyal fan base. If any product Sony sells should have an enthusiast level offering, it is PlayStation.

With games being built with dynamic frame rates, and resolution, needing nothing more than additional power to achieve locked performance (as seen with non enhanced games on PS4 Pro, XBO S, and XBO X), you can not convince me that there are not a few million PlayStation Fanatics out their that would not plop down the cash for a PS5 that could deliver uncompromised performance.

One Day!!!

PS4Pro have double power than PS4 vanilla, and still you see minimal notable gains. This super premium would have much more power probably 4-6x almost a gen difference. But the games to show it would be very few, so unless Sony do it for mindless profit without concern to have its devs showing it off, there is no point in it.

I'll tell you the same thing I said to potato_hamster. The idea of a Pro or Premium console is not about seeing notable gains. It is simply about improving the same experience.

A Premium console doesn't even necessarily ave to have a different chip set from the Pro Version. It could simply be a significant improvement to cooling, paired with the best quality chips yielded from each die. That combo would allow a massive increase to clock speeds for the GPU and CPU, which would mean completely free performance.

I gave potato the PS5 example, but I'll give you a PS4 example. Say Sony does drop a PS4 Pro Slim this year. Going from 14nm to 7nm they could easily increase the clock speeds on the CPU and GPU. In theory, say they bump the CPU to 3.0GHz and the GPU to 1200MHz. That would be more than enough to make games that scale between 1440 and 4K lock in at a steady 4K, or make games that bounce between 50 - 60fps run at a rock solid 60fps.

For all we know Sony could be putting things into motion for something like this right now. It could be the reason we have not seen any consumer facing OS upgrades for 2 years. They could be doing background work to make PS4 Super Slim and PS4 Pro Slim run all games better, by boosting the clocks on these new 7nm chips. Or it could be because they are building this kind of scalability into PS5, which means we could see a $299.99 PS5 Basic, a $499.99 Pro, and a $999.99 Premium.

 

 

One thing is for absolute certain. Scalability is the future of gaming. Offering games within any given ecosystem, that run between multiple different devices is going to be the new norm. You don't have to believe me, just listen to Phil Spencer, Satya Nadella, Shawn Layden, Kenichiro Yoshida, John Kodera, Reggie Fils-Aime, Lisa Su, Jensen Huang or any other person in power involved in Computing, Games, and Applications. It is an industry wide road map to tech in the 2020's.



Stop hate, let others live the life they were given. Everyone has their problems, and no one should have to feel ashamed for the way they were born. Be proud of who you are, encourage others to be proud of themselves. Learn, research, absorb everything around you. Nothing is meaningless, a purpose is placed on everything no matter how you perceive it. Discover how to love, and share that love with everything that you encounter. Help make existence a beautiful thing.

Kevyn B Grams
10/03/2010 

KBG29 on PSN&XBL