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Help with Mini-ITX Gaming Build

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Biggerboat1 said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

The difference in performance is minimal as you're mostly limited by the GPU anyway. What more in frames it can produce is neither discernible or felt IRL. However, with 12 threads instead of 6, it's much more future proof. Any game that can make use of 8 threads or more the 2600 will beat the 8400, and that list of games is growing.

Edit: look this video, it's about 10% faster at best than the 2600 in 1080p, with some games being virtually identical. In higher resolutions, the GPU limit sets in, and the 8400 looses it's lead completely.

But look up in my first post and you'll see I suggested an R5 2600 instead, which is slightly cheaper then the 8400 (about 5£), and any B450 Mainboard suffices for StoreMI, so you can choose a (much) cheaper one than the one suggested without any real drawbacks there.

Ok, I'm definitely coming around to the 2600.

They offer to OC it to 4GHz free of charge - which actually puts it above the 8400 across the board!!

Obviously the issue would be cooling.

From this review of the SilverStone FTZ01 it shows an OC'd i5-4670K (@4GHz) paired with a Noctua NH-L9x65 cooler being 48°C increase over ambient (Delta T) when running Unigine Heaven and Prime 95 v25.11.

Would those results indicate whether an OC'd 2600 (using the same cooler) would be ok? And if so, what would be my starting point for a suitable mobo?

Thanks again for the advice!

I would suggest a NH-L12S instead, as it has much more reserves, or the Shadow Rock TF 2 from Be Quiet!, if it fits into the case, but the L9x65 could possibly do the trick, too.

it alsod epends a bit on Case colling, what fans and how many do you have there in that case?

Last edited by Bofferbrauer2 - on 08 February 2019

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Bofferbrauer2 said:
Biggerboat1 said:

Ok, I'm definitely coming around to the 2600.

They offer to OC it to 4GHz free of charge - which actually puts it above the 8400 across the board!!

Obviously the issue would be cooling.

From this review of the SilverStone FTZ01 it shows an OC'd i5-4670K (@4GHz) paired with a Noctua NH-L9x65 cooler being 48°C increase over ambient (Delta T) when running Unigine Heaven and Prime 95 v25.11.

Would those results indicate whether an OC'd 2600 (using the same cooler) would be ok? And if so, what would be my starting point for a suitable mobo?

Thanks again for the advice!

I would suggest a NH-L12S instead, as it has much more reserves, or the Shadow Rock TF 2 from Be Quiet!, if it fits into the case, but the L9x65 could possibly do the trick, too.

it alsod epends a bit on Case colling, what fans and how many do you have there in that case?

I did look for the NH-L12S but it's not available on Scan... it's design definitely looks better as the fan is below the fins - blowing air through them, as opposed to all other low profile coolers which I've looked at which have the fan above the fins - sucking air...

The NH-L9x65 does get great reviews though... here & here - they refer to the intel socket version but I'm guessing should be similar.

The case comes with 2 x 120mm fans with space for a 3rd.

I am starting to think that maybe I should wait for the 3000 series though as I'm guessing they'll run cooler due to being on a smaller process? And in the meantime I can buy the RTX 2060 & use in my current build - which should still see some massive gains... (i5-4670K oc'd @ 4.2 & SLI GTX 660s)



Biggerboat1 said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

I would suggest a NH-L12S instead, as it has much more reserves, or the Shadow Rock TF 2 from Be Quiet!, if it fits into the case, but the L9x65 could possibly do the trick, too.

it alsod epends a bit on Case colling, what fans and how many do you have there in that case?

I did look for the NH-L12S but it's not available on Scan... it's design definitely looks better as the fan is below the fins - blowing air through them, as opposed to all other low profile coolers which I've looked at which have the fan above the fins - sucking air...

The NH-L9x65 does get great reviews though... here & here - they refer to the intel socket version but I'm guessing should be similar.

The case comes with 2 x 120mm fans with space for a 3rd.

I am starting to think that maybe I should wait for the 3000 series though as I'm guessing they'll run cooler due to being on a smaller process? And in the meantime I can buy the RTX 2060 & use in my current build - which should still see some massive gains... (i5-4670K oc'd @ 4.2 & SLI GTX 660s)

I love AMD, but I fear the 3000 series id getting way overhyped. The Matisse leak was actually an Epyc, not a Ryzen chip, and thus hard to predict if even the 12 core count is correct.

The L9x65 does great, but it's just certified for 95W and has not much reserves for more than that, which might get problematic with your aforementioned 4Ghz Ryzen, hence why I posted the other 2 alternatives. But like I said, might.



I built my PC four years ago and too wanted to go mini itx, I chose this case:

It is Thermaltake Core V1 Mini. It is somewhat ugly and not that small for mini itx, but it suits my needs because of the button and port placement and the fact that I can stack other stuff on it (I keep my audio system and one speaker on top of it, and PS2 slim on top of it all lol).



Visit my eBay stampers store: eims-stampers

Deus Ex (2000) - a game that pushes the boundaries of what the video game medium is capable of to a degree unmatched to this very day.

Biggerboat1 said:

The reason I was questioning whether it would be realistic to OC the 2600 is due to the tiny case I'm going for (and the inherent thermal issues) - as I wrote a couple of posts back the case can handle an OC'd i5-4670 with a decent low-profile cooler. Do you think that indicates that the 2600 (or other AMD CPU) would be ok, or are they more prone to heating issues when OC'd than intel's chips?

Another option is to drop the RTX 2060 into my current big-rig (i5-4670K oc'd @ 4.2) to replace my SLI GTX 660s and wait until the 3000 series release before moving to the mini-ITX machine... I'm reading that they're due to launch mid-year...

The Ryzens are pretty efficient, they will be fine. I have built Mini-ITX rigs with beefier CPU's than that... Second gen Ryzen is certainly not a Bulldozer power hog.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Ryzen 2600 is actually more energy efficient than the old Haswell i5 4670K. (65w vs 84w TDP's, although AMD and Intel measure TDP's differently.)
https://www.anandtech.com/show/12625/amd-second-generation-ryzen-7-2700x-2700-ryzen-5-2600x-2600/8

Check with your case though, you might find you might be able to use a Corsair closed loop water cooler or maybe

Bofferbrauer2 said:

I love AMD, but I fear the 3000 series id getting way overhyped. The Matisse leak was actually an Epyc, not a Ryzen chip, and thus hard to predict if even the 12 core count is correct.

There is room on the package for another chiplet, so anything is the go with the 3000 series.

Bofferbrauer2 said:

The L9x65 does great, but it's just certified for 95W and has not much reserves for more than that, which might get problematic with your aforementioned 4Ghz Ryzen, hence why I posted the other 2 alternatives. But like I said, might.

Remember, AMD and Intel calculate TDP's differently.

My last ITX rig had a Phenom 2 x6 1090T with a 3ghz NB clock and a 4ghz CPU clock and was probably doing 175w TDP or more.

Biggerboat1 said:

I did look for the NH-L12S but it's not available on Scan... it's design definitely looks better as the fan is below the fins - blowing air through them, as opposed to all other low profile coolers which I've looked at which have the fan above the fins - sucking air...

The NH-L9x65 does get great reviews though... here & here - they refer to the intel socket version but I'm guessing should be similar.

The case comes with 2 x 120mm fans with space for a 3rd.

I am starting to think that maybe I should wait for the 3000 series though as I'm guessing they'll run cooler due to being on a smaller process? And in the meantime I can buy the RTX 2060 & use in my current build - which should still see some massive gains... (i5-4670K oc'd @ 4.2 & SLI GTX 660s)

The Noctua is the ducks nuts for low profile cases. But with 3x 120mm fans, I don't see why you can't do 3.9-4ghz.

You could wait for the 3000 series and "get by" with the cheapest AMD APU. (Ryzen 3 2200G or Athlon 200GE)



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Bofferbrauer2 said:
Biggerboat1 said:

I did look for the NH-L12S but it's not available on Scan... it's design definitely looks better as the fan is below the fins - blowing air through them, as opposed to all other low profile coolers which I've looked at which have the fan above the fins - sucking air...

The NH-L9x65 does get great reviews though... here & here - they refer to the intel socket version but I'm guessing should be similar.

The case comes with 2 x 120mm fans with space for a 3rd.

I am starting to think that maybe I should wait for the 3000 series though as I'm guessing they'll run cooler due to being on a smaller process? And in the meantime I can buy the RTX 2060 & use in my current build - which should still see some massive gains... (i5-4670K oc'd @ 4.2 & SLI GTX 660s)

I love AMD, but I fear the 3000 series id getting way overhyped. The Matisse leak was actually an Epyc, not a Ryzen chip, and thus hard to predict if even the 12 core count is correct.

The L9x65 does great, but it's just certified for 95W and has not much reserves for more than that, which might get problematic with your aforementioned 4Ghz Ryzen, hence why I posted the other 2 alternatives. But like I said, might.

Because I have a system that should see big gains with the RTX 2060 I guess I can just grab that now and wait & see on the 3000 series...

Isn't the 2600 a 65W part?



Pemalite said: 
Biggerboat1 said:

I did look for the NH-L12S but it's not available on Scan... it's design definitely looks better as the fan is below the fins - blowing air through them, as opposed to all other low profile coolers which I've looked at which have the fan above the fins - sucking air...

The NH-L9x65 does get great reviews though... here & here - they refer to the intel socket version but I'm guessing should be similar.

The case comes with 2 x 120mm fans with space for a 3rd.

I am starting to think that maybe I should wait for the 3000 series though as I'm guessing they'll run cooler due to being on a smaller process? And in the meantime I can buy the RTX 2060 & use in my current build - which should still see some massive gains... (i5-4670K oc'd @ 4.2 & SLI GTX 660s)

The Noctua is the ducks nuts for low profile cases. But with 3x 120mm fans, I don't see why you can't do 3.9-4ghz.

You could wait for the 3000 series and "get by" with the cheapest AMD APU. (Ryzen 3 2200G or Athlon 200GE)

I think if I was to wait for the 3000 series it would probably make sense to stick with my 4670k just now rather than buy an AMD interem...

My fear is that the 'mid-2019' release for the 3000 series becomes 'late 2019' then 'TBA'. Hopefully they manage this node shift better than Intel to 10nm...



m0ney said:

I built my PC four years ago and too wanted to go mini itx, I chose this case:

It is Thermaltake Core V1 Mini. It is somewhat ugly and not that small for mini itx, but it suits my needs because of the button and port placement and the fact that I can stack other stuff on it (I keep my audio system and one speaker on top of it, and PS2 slim on top of it all lol).

Yeah, it would probably make my life much easier if I went for a case like this as cooling becomes a lot easier, but I'm kind of set on it fitting on to a shelf so that it doesn't mess with the feng shui :)



Biggerboat1 said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

I love AMD, but I fear the 3000 series id getting way overhyped. The Matisse leak was actually an Epyc, not a Ryzen chip, and thus hard to predict if even the 12 core count is correct.

The L9x65 does great, but it's just certified for 95W and has not much reserves for more than that, which might get problematic with your aforementioned 4Ghz Ryzen, hence why I posted the other 2 alternatives. But like I said, might.

Because I have a system that should see big gains with the RTX 2060 I guess I can just grab that now and wait & see on the 3000 series...

Isn't the 2600 a 65W part?

Yeah, and I thought boost clock was actually a bit lower than 3.9Ghz (I thought 3.6Ghz, but that was 1600, not the 2600. My bad.). between 3.9 and 4Ghz, there shouldn't be much of a problem, so the L9x65 shouldn't pose a problem after all.



Biggerboat1 said:
Pemalite said: 

The Noctua is the ducks nuts for low profile cases. But with 3x 120mm fans, I don't see why you can't do 3.9-4ghz.

You could wait for the 3000 series and "get by" with the cheapest AMD APU. (Ryzen 3 2200G or Athlon 200GE)

I think if I was to wait for the 3000 series it would probably make sense to stick with my 4670k just now rather than buy an AMD interem...

My fear is that the 'mid-2019' release for the 3000 series becomes 'late 2019' then 'TBA'. Hopefully they manage this node shift better than Intel to 10nm...

First 7nm chips are already released, though they are GPUs; Radeon VII, Radeon Instinct Mi50 and MI60. CPU is sampling right now which means release is just a couple months away - I expect a June release, which would still beat Intel by over half a year minimum.