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zorg1000 said:
curl-6 said:

The kind of games both platforms gwere built for made it more of an issue for 3DS than DS, hence why 3DS tried clumsily to rectify the situation with the Circle Pad Pro and the nub on the New 3DS while IIRC DS never needed to attempt such revisionism.

DS main launch title was a port of Mario 64, the game that was designed to showcase the analog stick.

There was no analogue Pad Pro or analogue nub added with the DS Lite/DSi or anything though, because it simply wasn't as big a drawback as it was for 3DS.

But this discussion is all beside the point anyway.

DS aside, 3DS on its own merits is bad hardware.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 05 February 2019

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curl-6 said:
zorg1000 said:

DS main launch title was a port of Mario 64, the game that was designed to showcase the analog stick.

There was no analogue Pad Pro or analogue nub added with the DS Lite/DSi or anything though, because it simply wasn't as big a drawback as it was for 3DS.

But this discussion is all beside the point anyway.

DS aside, 3DS on its own merits is bad hardware.

 I mean, that's kind of Nintendo's design ethos for pure handhelds.  They were all built on affordable, already-dated tech.  The Lynx, Game Gear, PSP, Vita, all were superior, more premium tech.  



Nuvendil said:
curl-6 said:

There was no analogue Pad Pro or analogue nub added with the DS Lite/DSi or anything though, because it simply wasn't as big a drawback as it was for 3DS.

But this discussion is all beside the point anyway.

DS aside, 3DS on its own merits is bad hardware.

 I mean, that's kind of Nintendo's design ethos for pure handhelds.  They were all built on affordable, already-dated tech.  The Lynx, Game Gear, PSP, Vita, all were superior, more premium tech.  

I don't mean it was bad as in outdated processing tech, more that the design was bad in terms of having just one analogue stick, focusing on a gimmick that nobody ended up wanting, and having a worse screen than the PSP that launched 6 years earlier.



curl-6 said:
Nuvendil said:

 I mean, that's kind of Nintendo's design ethos for pure handhelds.  They were all built on affordable, already-dated tech.  The Lynx, Game Gear, PSP, Vita, all were superior, more premium tech.  

I don't mean it was bad as in outdated processing tech, more that the design was bad in terms of having just one analogue stick, focusing on a gimmick that nobody ended up wanting, and having a worse screen than the PSP that launched 6 years earlier.

The Analogue stick is probably the only thing that REALLY sticks out and was a major design oversight.  But that's also not new.  The GB needed the GBC to make up for going a bit TOO cheap.  The GBA needed the GBA SP to light the screen.  

I think functionally the 3DS actually works rather well.  Only a few games needed that second stick badly since...well games designed for it were designed usually for single stick play.  The screen quality is the more jarring thing for my personal taste.  They traded too much there for the 3D.  And I actually like the 3D.



Nuvendil said:
curl-6 said:

I don't mean it was bad as in outdated processing tech, more that the design was bad in terms of having just one analogue stick, focusing on a gimmick that nobody ended up wanting, and having a worse screen than the PSP that launched 6 years earlier.

The Analogue stick is probably the only thing that REALLY sticks out and was a major design oversight.  But that's also not new.  The GB needed the GBC to make up for going a bit TOO cheap.  The GBA needed the GBA SP to light the screen.  

I think functionally the 3DS actually works rather well.  Only a few games needed that second stick badly since...well games designed for it were designed usually for single stick play.  The screen quality is the more jarring thing for my personal taste.  They traded too much there for the 3D.  And I actually like the 3D.

I haven't really followed Nintendo's handhelds as with the exception of 3DS I never owned any. It's just that in isolation the 3DS just seems to me a poorly designed piece of hardware. Switch for example is vastly superior in concept and execution.



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curl-6 said:
Nuvendil said:

The Analogue stick is probably the only thing that REALLY sticks out and was a major design oversight.  But that's also not new.  The GB needed the GBC to make up for going a bit TOO cheap.  The GBA needed the GBA SP to light the screen.  

I think functionally the 3DS actually works rather well.  Only a few games needed that second stick badly since...well games designed for it were designed usually for single stick play.  The screen quality is the more jarring thing for my personal taste.  They traded too much there for the 3D.  And I actually like the 3D.

I haven't really followed Nintendo's handhelds as with the exception of 3DS I never owned any. It's just that in isolation the 3DS just seems to me a poorly designed piece of hardware. Switch for example is vastly superior in concept and execution.

I think he had some valid comparisons though.

Nintendo didnt have color until 1998 when Lynx had one in 1989.

They didnt have a backlit screen until 2003 when Game Gear had one in 1991.

They didnt have a touch screen until 2004 when Game.com had one in 1997.

They didn't have a control stick until 2011 when Tapwave Zodiac had one in 2003.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

zorg1000 said:
curl-6 said:

I haven't really followed Nintendo's handhelds as with the exception of 3DS I never owned any. It's just that in isolation the 3DS just seems to me a poorly designed piece of hardware. Switch for example is vastly superior in concept and execution.

I think he had some valid comparisons though.

Nintendo didnt have color until 1998 when Lynx had one in 1989.

They didnt have a backlit screen until 2003 when Game Gear had one in 1991.

They didnt have a touch screen until 2004 when Game.com had one in 1997.

They didn't have a control stick until 2011 when Tapwave Zodiac had one in 2003.

Oh yeah, I definitely agree it's nothing new for them to be behind the curve. Again, I never owned any Nintendo handheld prior to the 3DS so I do't have strong opinions on those. All I can say for sure is that my 3DS always did feel like a second rate product, especially compared to the Switch.



curl-6 said:
zorg1000 said:

I think he had some valid comparisons though.

Nintendo didnt have color until 1998 when Lynx had one in 1989.

They didnt have a backlit screen until 2003 when Game Gear had one in 1991.

They didnt have a touch screen until 2004 when Game.com had one in 1997.

They didn't have a control stick until 2011 when Tapwave Zodiac had one in 2003.

Oh yeah, I definitely agree it's nothing new for them to be behind the curve. Again, I never owned any Nintendo handheld prior to the 3DS so I do't have strong opinions on those. All I can say for sure is that my 3DS always did feel like a second rate product, especially compared to the Switch.

Well the Switch is the first portable piece of Nintendo hardware to use contemporary, "premium" components.  Had it been a pure handheld following that old design philosophy,  we would probably see a K1 instead of an X1 and a Vita level screen instead of 720p, etc.  The Switch is the first time Nintendo's portable hardware has been competitive with higher end products surrounding it.  The traditional mindset was simplicity and affordability.  But I do think the 3DS was at odds somewhat with the shifting handheld software design philosophies at Nintendo, moving from simple and bite sized to something more console-esque.  It makes sense for, say, Kirby Triple Deluxe.  It feels off with Monster Hunter and the like.



Nuvendil said:
curl-6 said:

I don't mean it was bad as in outdated processing tech, more that the design was bad in terms of having just one analogue stick, focusing on a gimmick that nobody ended up wanting, and having a worse screen than the PSP that launched 6 years earlier.

The Analogue stick is probably the only thing that REALLY sticks out and was a major design oversight.

I'd argue the 3D effect proved to be a bad design feature as well, based on the poor market reception. curl-6 is correct to note that 3D stopped being a selling point really quick, and even a lot of Nintendo's own games abandoned it by the end, to the point where later iterations of the hardware couldn't do 3D if they wanted. There was a very literal and a figurative price to that feature though. Ultimately, I think the system would have been much better off without it.



noname2200 said:
Nuvendil said:

The Analogue stick is probably the only thing that REALLY sticks out and was a major design oversight.

I'd argue the 3D effect proved to be a bad design feature as well, based on the poor market reception. curl-6 is correct to note that 3D stopped being a selling point really quick, and even a lot of Nintendo's own games abandoned it by the end, to the point where later iterations of the hardware couldn't do 3D if they wanted. There was a very literal and a figurative price to that feature though. Ultimately, I think the system would have been much better off without it.

That's indisputable, although last year we've had a thread on this site that claimed that the sales of the 3DS vindicated the Virtual Boy because stereoscopic 3D succeeded. The really frightening thing about that thread was that half or more people who posted agreed with the thread.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

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