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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Switch is home console seeing the fastest software sales so far in Nintendo's history, Smash Bros sold 5m in first week

kenjab said:
Shiken said:

You are reaching bud.  For one, you have to buy an extra 3rd party device.  By that logic the PS4 is portable due to remote play.

 

But lets just give credit to table top mode here...you are still not using it as a portable.  The device is stationary and cannot be used on the go.  It is no different than bringing your PS4 and X1 with you and plugging it into a small TV.  The only difference is that the Switch makes it easier.

 

So no, you cannot play Super Mario Party in handheld mode.  However there are no handheld games that cannot be played docked.  This is because the Switch is a home console designed as a hybrid to allow you to take most games with you on the go.

It's been a while since I looked at it, but I'm almost certain that most, if not all, of the games in the Labo variety kit require the Switch to be undocked when playing.

BTW, I generally agree with your point that the Switch is designed as a home console you can take with you.  But the portable aspect is still a major component, and one that Nintendo should continue to promote and expand on the Switch, especially considering they have no competition in dedicated portable gaming consoles right now.

Yeah, there are some grey areas with Labo.  If it requires the screen, then no it cannot be used docked.  However Labo is a unique case where even though it is not docked, it is no longer handheld either.

 

And yeah, by all means most, if not all games should be made portable on Switch.  The versatility of the console is the entire selling point.  If it was not for portability then there would be no real reason to choose Switch versions of games over the others.  That is the whole point of a hybrid home console.

 

I am just stating that the Switch was always intended to be the successor to the WiiU, not 3ds.  Now could this merger into a line of hybrid devices kill off the idea of dedicated handhelds?  It sure can, and in that way it kind of succeeds both.  What the other person is trying to imply is that because it has Pokemon, it is a portable.  This notion however makes no sense for reasons I have already explained.



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HoangNhatAnh said:
Shiken said:

You are reaching bud.  For one, you have to buy an extra 3rd party device.  By that logic the PS4 is portable due to remote play.

 

But lets just give credit to table top mode here...you are still not using it as a portable.  The device is stationary and cannot be used on the go.  It is no different than bringing your PS4 and X1 with you and plugging it into a small TV.  The only difference is that the Switch makes it easier.

 

So no, you cannot play Super Mario Party in handheld mode.  However there are no handheld games that cannot be played docked.  This is because the Switch is a home console designed as a hybrid to allow you to take most games with you on the go.

Big different, i'm asking about dock and undock, this is not docked mode. "By that logic the PS4 is portable due to remote play." Except you need to bring a ps4 and hoping for charge socket as well as wifi to play anywhere, not every place in this world have strong wifi. 

"But lets just give credit to table top mode here...you are still not using it as a portable.  The device is stationary and cannot be used on the go.  It is no different than bringing your PS4 and X1 with you and plugging it into a small TV" Table top mode isn't TV mode (or docked mode). "The device is stationary and cannot be used on the go" It is very light and easy to bring with you but not ps4/xbox 1. They are already big, now you need a HD TV (even a small one) as well as hoping for two charge sockets, that is a league different compare to the Switch.

"So no, you cannot play Super Mario Party in handheld mode", but with this thing, i still can play it undocked. However there are no handheld games that cannot be played docked. Are you sure?

You called the Switch a handheld, and therefore you are talking about handheld mode.  If you are using table top mode, it is no different than playing on a TV with a small screen.  You cannot pick it up and take it with you while you play, it is still stationary.  Mario Party cannot be played in handheld mode, that is my point.

 

In fact, let it also be pointed out that Super Mario Party is and has always been a console game.  By your own logic, that makes Switch a home console.



Nintendo Switch Friend Code: SW-5643-2927-1984

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Shiken said:
HoangNhatAnh said:

Big different, i'm asking about dock and undock, this is not docked mode. "By that logic the PS4 is portable due to remote play." Except you need to bring a ps4 and hoping for charge socket as well as wifi to play anywhere, not every place in this world have strong wifi. 

"But lets just give credit to table top mode here...you are still not using it as a portable.  The device is stationary and cannot be used on the go.  It is no different than bringing your PS4 and X1 with you and plugging it into a small TV" Table top mode isn't TV mode (or docked mode). "The device is stationary and cannot be used on the go" It is very light and easy to bring with you but not ps4/xbox 1. They are already big, now you need a HD TV (even a small one) as well as hoping for two charge sockets, that is a league different compare to the Switch.

"So no, you cannot play Super Mario Party in handheld mode", but with this thing, i still can play it undocked. However there are no handheld games that cannot be played docked. Are you sure?

You called the Switch a handheld, and therefore you are talking about handheld mode.  If you are using table top mode, it is no different than playing on a TV with a small screen.  You cannot pick it up and take it with you while you play, it is still stationary.  Mario Party cannot be played in handheld mode, that is my point.

 

In fact, let it also be pointed out that Super Mario Party is and has always been a console game.  By your own logic, that makes Switch a home console.

"If you are using table top mode, it is no different than playing on a TV with a small screen" except you will need a HD TV in that case but in fact you don't.  "Super Mario Party is and has always been a console game" Ahem: Mario Party Advance  (GBA), Mario Party DS, Mario Party: Island Tour (3ds) and Mario Party Star Rush. I will agree if these game don't exist. 

Finally, name me a home console that have screen, battery and can be played on the go anywhere at any time?



HoangNhatAnh said:
Shiken said:

You called the Switch a handheld, and therefore you are talking about handheld mode.  If you are using table top mode, it is no different than playing on a TV with a small screen.  You cannot pick it up and take it with you while you play, it is still stationary.  Mario Party cannot be played in handheld mode, that is my point.

 

In fact, let it also be pointed out that Super Mario Party is and has always been a console game.  By your own logic, that makes Switch a home console.

"If you are using table top mode, it is no different than playing on a TV with a small screen" except you will need a HD TV in that case but in fact you don't.  "Super Mario Party is and has always been a console game" Ahem: Mario Party Advance  (GBA), Mario Party DS, Mario Party: Island Tour (3ds) and Mario Party Star Rush. I will agree if these game don't exist. 

Finally, name me a home console that have screen, battery and can be played on the go anywhere at any time?

PS4/VITA combo with remote play, Nvidia Shield, Sega Nomad

 

Name me a handheld that plays current gen console games, has different performance setting based on being docked and undocked (since it is not just a handheld with an HDMI out), has even one game that cannot be played handheld, and recieves full support from 1st party CONSOLE IPs.

 

You got me on Mario Party, but you also kind of prove an earlier point I made...

 

Pokemon Stadium

Pokemon Snap

Pokken Tournament

Pokemon Lets Go (😉)

 

If those games do not exist, Pokemon games can be said to only be on handhelds.  Also let it be shown that wikipedia has the Switch listed as a Hybrid Console.  When you click the definition of Hyrbid Console it takes you to this page...

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_console#Eighth_generation

 

Where it is classified under HOME CONSOLE and grouped with the PS4, X1, and WiiU.  Right below it, it lists the handheld consoles of this generation as 3DS and VITA.

Last edited by Shiken - on 22 January 2019

Nintendo Switch Friend Code: SW-5643-2927-1984

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Shiken said:
HoangNhatAnh said:

"If you are using table top mode, it is no different than playing on a TV with a small screen" except you will need a HD TV in that case but in fact you don't.  "Super Mario Party is and has always been a console game" Ahem: Mario Party Advance  (GBA), Mario Party DS, Mario Party: Island Tour (3ds) and Mario Party Star Rush. I will agree if these game don't exist. 

Finally, name me a home console that have screen, battery and can be played on the go anywhere at any time?

PS4/VITA combo with remote play, Nvidia Shield, Sega Nomad

 

Name me a handheld that plays current gen console games, has different performance setting based on being docked and undocked (since it is not just a handheld with an HDMI out), has even one game that cannot be played handheld, and recieves full support from 1st party CONSOLE IPs.

 

You got me on Mario Party, but you also kind of prove an earlier point I made...

 

Pokemon Stadium

Pokemon Snap

Pokken Tournament

Pokemon Lets Go (😉)

 

If those games do not exist, Pokemon games can be said to only be on handhelds.  Also let it be shown that wikipedia has the Switch listed as a Hybrid Console.  When you click the definition of Hyrbid Console it takes you to this page...

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_console#Eighth_generation

 

Where it is classified under HOME CONSOLE and grouped with the PS4, X1, and WiiU.  Right below it, it lists the handheld consoles of this generation as 3DS and VITA.

"PS4/VITA combo with remote play"? Need both ps4/vita and strong wifi as well as charge sockets, can't play anywhere at anytime, sorry

"Nvidia Shield"? the same, you need wifi with TV and charge sockets, also can't play anywhere at anytime

Sega Nomad is a portable, not home console. No one call Sega Nomad a home console outside you

"Pokemon Stadium

Pokemon Snap

Pokken Tournament

Pokemon Lets Go (😉)"

And none of them are mainline title except Let Go but i already claimed Switch is a true portable first so Let Go (Pokemon Yellow Remake) is on handheld. When it get gen 8, it will be truly a handheld at it's core.

Hybrid Console is not really a Home console, no matter what you think, especially when you can play it on the go at any place and anytime with it out screen and battery




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HoangNhatAnh said:
Shiken said:

PS4/VITA combo with remote play, Nvidia Shield, Sega Nomad

 

Name me a handheld that plays current gen console games, has different performance setting based on being docked and undocked (since it is not just a handheld with an HDMI out), has even one game that cannot be played handheld, and recieves full support from 1st party CONSOLE IPs.

 

You got me on Mario Party, but you also kind of prove an earlier point I made...

 

Pokemon Stadium

Pokemon Snap

Pokken Tournament

Pokemon Lets Go (😉)

 

If those games do not exist, Pokemon games can be said to only be on handhelds.  Also let it be shown that wikipedia has the Switch listed as a Hybrid Console.  When you click the definition of Hyrbid Console it takes you to this page...

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_console#Eighth_generation

 

Where it is classified under HOME CONSOLE and grouped with the PS4, X1, and WiiU.  Right below it, it lists the handheld consoles of this generation as 3DS and VITA.

"PS4/VITA combo with remote play"? Need both ps4/vita and strong wifi as well as charge sockets, can't play anywhere at anytime, sorry

"Nvidia Shield"? the same, you need wifi with TV and charge sockets, also can't play anywhere at anytime

Sega Nomad is a portable, not home console. No one call Sega Nomad a home console outside you

"Pokemon Stadium

Pokemon Snap

Pokken Tournament

Pokemon Lets Go (😉)"

And none of them are mainline title except Let Go but i already claimed Switch is a true portable first so Let Go (Pokemon Yellow Remake) is on handheld. When it get gen 8, it will be truly a handheld at it's core.

Hybrid Console is not really a Home console, no matter what you think, especially when you can play it on the go at any place and anytime with it out screen and battery


The Sega Nomad plays genesis games...console games.  It can also be connected to a TV and used as a Genesis, making it the first true hybrid console.

 

I can play my VITA remote play anywhere.  I played Persona 5 from my wifi hotspot on my phone without issue.

 

Zelda Breath of the Wild was released on the WiiU and Switch same day.  It was developed as a console game and plays the same on either the Switch on the WiiU.  It also runs smoother and at a higher resolution on the Switch, as the Switch is the next home console for Nintendo.  The Hybrid nature of the console is a feature that allows you to take those console experiences on the go.  It plays games designed for consoles that are festure complete such as DOOM, Wolfenstein 2, Warframe, Starkink, Valkeria Chronicles 4, NBA2k18, etc.

 

Historically speaking when a game has a portable counterpart, it is either not feature complete or has to run or a completely different engine.  In the case of the Switch however it just gets it's resolution cut back and maybe 30 fps if the game was initially 60 fps.  This kind of thing is similar to how the PS360 and X1/PS4 ports are handled.  Other than that, the same engine and assets are used.

 

So again, the Switch is a home console hybrid that allows you to play home console games on the go.  You can classify it as whatever you want, but when even Nintendo themselves are selling it as a Hybrid home console, there is little you can do to argue the fact.  When using logic alone, the discussion could go either way.  However given the fact that sales are compared to other consoles, it is developed for as a home console, and it is advertised as a home console that can be used on the go, it is classified as a home console.



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Shiken said:
HoangNhatAnh said:

"PS4/VITA combo with remote play"? Need both ps4/vita and strong wifi as well as charge sockets, can't play anywhere at anytime, sorry

"Nvidia Shield"? the same, you need wifi with TV and charge sockets, also can't play anywhere at anytime

Sega Nomad is a portable, not home console. No one call Sega Nomad a home console outside you

"Pokemon Stadium

Pokemon Snap

Pokken Tournament

Pokemon Lets Go (😉)"

And none of them are mainline title except Let Go but i already claimed Switch is a true portable first so Let Go (Pokemon Yellow Remake) is on handheld. When it get gen 8, it will be truly a handheld at it's core.

Hybrid Console is not really a Home console, no matter what you think, especially when you can play it on the go at any place and anytime with it out screen and battery


The Sega Nomad plays genesis games...console games.  It can also be connected to a TV and used as a Genesis, making it the first true hybrid console.

 

I can play my VITA remote play anywhere.  I played Persona 5 from my wifi hotspot on my phone without issue.

 

Zelda Breath of the Wild was released on the WiiU and Switch same day.  It was developed as a console game and plays the same on either the Switch on the WiiU.  It also runs smoother and at a higher resolution on the Switch, as the Switch is the next home console for Nintendo.  The Hybrid nature of the console is a feature that allows you to take those console experiences on the go.  It plays games designed for consoles that are festure complete such as DOOM, Wolfenstein 2, Warframe, Starkink, Valkeria Chronicles 4, NBA2k18, etc.

 

Historically speaking when a game has a portable counterpart, it is either not feature complete or has to run or a completely different engine.  In the case of the Switch however it just gets it's resolution cut back and maybe 30 fps if the game was initially 60 fps.  This kind of thing is similar to how the PS360 and X1/PS4 ports are handled.  Other than that, the same engine and assets are used.

 

So again, the Switch is a home console hybrid that allows you to play home console games on the go.  You can classify it as whatever you want, but when even Nintendo themselves are selling it as a Hybrid home console, there is little you can do to argue the fact.  When using logic alone, the discussion could go either way.  However given the fact that sales are compared to other consoles, it is developed for as a home console, and it is advertised as a home console that can be used on the go, it is classified as a home console.

And you can play Nomad anywhere also, not a home console.

"I can play my VITA remote play anywhere.  I played Persona 5 from my wifi hotspot on my phone without issue." You can, but not everyone can, not too many countries have strong wifi, that fact is undeniable

"Zelda Breath of the Wild was released on the WiiU and Switch same day" Yeah, Switch is also quite stronger than Wii U, like GBA also have SNES big games, doesn't make it become a home console

"Historically speaking when a game has a portable counterpart, it is either not feature complete or has to run or a completely different engine" Switch is 3 times stronger than Wii U. "a completely different engine" is mostly when the power gap is somehow too big or the portable is controls limited. Vita also run some ps2 games with different engine, so Vita is a home console?

In Japan and many countries in Asia, Switch is NOT a home console but portable console only. You can use it as a home console, but it won't change the view of people who live there



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Last edited by cycycychris - on 22 January 2019

Shiken said:

So again, the Switch is a home console hybrid that allows you to play home console games on the go. 

It really isn't - in essence it's a custom designed gaming tablet that comes with controllers and dock that enables it to connect to TV (which can be replaced with 3rd party cable bundles that do the same thing). Everything else is Nintendo's clever marketing....which obviously works.



HoloDust said:
Shiken said:

So again, the Switch is a home console hybrid that allows you to play home console games on the go. 

It really isn't - in essence it's a custom designed gaming tablet that comes with controllers and dock that enables it to connect to TV (which can be replaced with 3rd party cable bundles that do the same thing). Everything else is Nintendo's clever marketing....which obviously works.

Incorrect, as it actually functions differently based on being docked and undocked.  One can easily point out how it was designed as a console, but added the screen and the ability to downclock the CPU/GPU when undocked to allow for portability.  It is not capable of outputting docked performance in handheld mode as it was designed for console play.

 

If it was just a tablet with an HDMI out, then you might have a point.  But it isn't, as it actually changes what it does based on being dockdd/undocked.



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