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Forums - PC Discussion - Nvidia Gets SALTY

fatslob-:O said:
vivster said:

And you're telling me AMD isn't able to beat that on a smaller node without "useless" crap on the chip? The last time I checked the goal was to beat your competition and not to dally around in the lower high end.

A smaller node is useless if they don't decide to go the full way which is approaching towards the reticle limit. I would say your constraints are pretty similar in expecting a GTX 1060 to come out on top of a GTX 980 Ti ... 

I don't think you think you know what exactly AMD's goals are in mind. They only have political will to remain in the gaming market, not to dominate it like how Nvidia rolls out large specialized gaming GPUs. Technological superiority plays a role but at the end of the day what separates AMD and Nvidia is pure political will in which one will always use the bigger die. Just as gladiators live and die by their sword so too do the chips within their silicon but more specifically the size of it in many cases ... 

With Radeon VII, their main objective wasn't the gaming market but it was high end compute in deep learning. The Radeon VII is the exact same chip design found in their MI50/60 line of compute cards so AMD is obviously in it to make a quick buck for it in the gaming market despite a couple of flaws like half rate FP64 which only makes power consumption worse, disabled PCIE 4.0 which is still built into the chip, and then we have deep learning specific instructions which are somewhat similar to what Nvidia calls their "Tensor Cores" except baked into the instruction set as special instructions instead of a separate unit like Nvidia's implementation ... 

With AMD there are a several flaws with their approach when it comes to gaming like either not using a big die size or catering to the wrong market so without hitting these two notes properly they practically never are able to take the performance crown ... 

The fact that their policy is to make an underwhelming product doesn't really change that it's underwhelming.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

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vivster said:

The fact that their policy is to make an underwhelming product doesn't really change that it's underwhelming.

Never argued that but your expectations are highly distorted if you think changing a node is enough to grant a chip designer technical superiority ... 



Oh there's no doubt it's true, even AMD wouldn't tell you their new card is in the same league as the 2080.  I like the attitude, when you're so much better than your competition, own it, call a spade a spade.



CGI-Quality said:

That analogy doesn't work, since the Ti series is a pretty serious one and many many people buy them. If you were talking Titans vs an AMD equivalent, then yeah, I'd probably agree, even as a Titan buyer.

One link, please? I kinda did a research and "concrete GPU " if this is just normal GPUs, are in decline in sales.



shikamaru317 said:

Yeah, I just checked the December 2018 Steam Hardware survey, and the 780, 980, 980m, 980ti, 1080, 1080 ti, and 2080 add up to just 6.21% of GPU's used by gamers on Steam. Titan V, Titan RTX, Titan X, Titan XP,  2080ti, and Vega 64 percentages are too low to even show up on Steam, so we're talking less than 0.15% on each of those models. It's clear to me why AMD just doesn't care about competing at the high end anymore when the total high-end marketshare across multiple generations of models from AMD and Nvidia is less than 10%.

That being said, AMD does need to try harder on mid-high end, the combined marketshare for Nvidia's "70" tier models, 1070 ti, 1070, 970, 770, 970m, and 2070 is 9.42%, while AMD's current marketshare in that mid-high end tier is less than 1%, and their most recent mid-high end chipset, the Vega 56, is at less than 0.15%, too low to even show up on the Steam Hardware survey.

THIS is what I wanted, kudos for u and thanks for ur support!

Seriously, this is behind hilarious what they say in the reports, I kinda checked over 10 sites and no single number!



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CGI-Quality said:

Which sites?

Basically I have typed NVIDIA GPU sales, AMD GPU sales or just PC GPU sales in Google and got reports with revenues, trends, new releases, %s, but never units sold, 

for example anandtech reports AMD up 6%, Intel up 11% and NV up 4% or something like that, and of course many kinds of GPUS, you know me well that I'm " old bag " if we talk these topics, and I care only about units sold bc this is the only real deal here.

Hell, this is the site about sales and predictions so with the data we got already, I predict PS5 to be more powerful than Scarlett in PS4/X1 style. You heard it here first folks.



derpysquirtle64 said:
freebs2 said:

For their prospective probably while ps and xb move a lot of units, console chips have very thin margins compared to graphics cards and laptops gpus.

Mind me, I don't have anything against AMD, but PS and Xbox use their chips not because they're superior to Nividia's but only because they're chepaer.

Not only because it's cheaper. I guess both Sony and Microsoft doesn't really want to work with Nvidia at this point. Nvidia screwed both companies in the past. They screwed Microsoft with GPU prices for original Xbox which led to a lawsuit. And they made the worse GPU for PS3 than what was inside Xbox360 which came out a year before. I guess it costed more for Sony than X360 GPU as well.

Don't really care of being Nvidia's defence force, but this is not very accurate.

Yes, the original XB GPU was more expensive but it was largely superior to other consoles and yes, they (Nvidia) wanted and still want a larger cut of profits (that's what I'm saying from the beginning). As for PS3, the reason why the GPU was weaker is mostly due to the fact that until the later stages of HDW development Sony planned to use the Cell to render games instead of a regular GPU. The RSX was inferior simply because it was engeneered on a short notice.



The Vega VII is an absolutely stunning card to look at, considering that it's a reference design.
Honestly, I think it's a better looking card than the reference RTX 2080.

Now the Vega VII will probably beat the RTX 2080 in a few tasks, given that it has so much bandwidth, and isn't based on the Turing architecture (so there is just going to be some differences).
It admirable to see AMD stick to HBM for this card, as that's a really cool technology.

The RTX 2080 may very well beat AMD Radeon's card in gaming, especially so if Nvidia's able to support their gaming line like usual.
In terms of modern titles running rasterisation, at high framerates DLSS on the RTX line will stomp AMD.
No amount of brute force from the Vega VII can compete with that.
Luckily for AMD, DLSS isn't something that can be just enabled for a game, as it has to be done on a game by game basis.
So on older titles, and modern titles, that don't have DLSS support, the Vega VII may be able to compete.

Turing has other technology that hasn't been leveraged fully yet, like mesh shading, and VRS.
So who knows what the future holds, and what card will actually be a better buy.
Honestly though, Nvidia has to come out with a 7nm card eventually (though, they don't have to), and AMD have Navi coming.
So for the vast majority of consumers, both cards aren't at all worth it.

Jensen isn't being salty, he's just being rude.



KingofTrolls said:
Chazore said:

There wasn't a doubt they won this console gen, because they were the ones who signed the one time deal (One time, as in, who is going to swap from AMD to NV mid gen). I don't see how AMD is going to absolutely slaughter everyone for all of time, going forward, when their current GPU lineup is underwhelming. If they do a deal with Navi, that means it;ll be a one time deal with Sony, meaning Nvidia can just release a newer chip before or after Navi, and then another one, but you can't do that with a closed off box, which isn't meant to be tampered with constantly. 

Don't forget, NV also has their deal with Nintendo, and the Switch has been rising in popularity and sales over a short period of time. 

Looks like u have not read the Forbes leak about Navi GPU/Sony, there is stated that Vega development team was just decimated by Lisa Su for Navi, because she bets more on partners ( good idea!!! ) than their own products. And we have it offical, VII is Vega on lower die shrink, thats all. But it is only one battle, the war is already in AMD's pocket.

The fact that MS has just confirmed the next Xbox will use AMD, simply put, is that they ( MS ) prefer inferior AMD's solution than NV. This is ... a knock down, or something.

It's not a knockdown or something though. You guys, who aren't in the complete tech know how, somehow think that AMD is absolutely decimating and slaughtering absolutely everyone, that they will somehow be the dominant GPU/chip rulers on this planet for many years to come. it's like a childhood fantasy, but it doesn't mesh well with our current reality. AMD aren't going to outright slaughter NV in the GPU market.



Step right up come on in, feel the buzz in your veins, I'm like an chemical electrical right into your brain and I'm the one who killed the Radio, soon you'll all see

So pay up motherfuckers you belong to "V"

KingofTrolls said:

All the trails leads to Navi/Vega in next gens what is good enough. i dont believe it was just a coincidence that Phil announecs collab on next Xbox at the VII presentation. Basically, it is Vega on 7nm, what is what next gens will have to, and  Vega was never planned to hit 7nm, Navi was, so...

Navi, is rumored to be developed with close collab with Sony. AMD has rich story with semi-custom things.

Oh dear God.
There was a booth during an Xbox One X leak ages ago... Where AMD was using Ryzen... And people thought the Xbox One X was going to be Ryzen powered.

Just because there was a collaboration announcement between Microsoft and AMD... Doesn't mean that the next Xbox is going to be using outdated Vega technology.

Die-shrinks also do not happen overnight, obviously things have changed since AMD's last released product roadmap, but if you think it was an overnight decision to have Vega at 7nm... Then I am not sure what to tell you.

shikamaru317 said:

AMD does try a bit harder on the low-mid range though, Polaris for instance. When Polaris released, it's top of the line chipset, RX 480, roughly traded blows with Nvidia's 1060 in performance, beating the 1060 in games that were optimized for AMD cards and losing to it in games that were optimized for Nvidia GPU's (RX 480 also won on Vulkan games like Doom). And the best thing was the Rx 480 could usually be found for lower prices than the 1060, sometimes as much as $50 lower.

Polaris was okay. It wasn't great.
AMD could have probably named it something more fitting... I.E. The Radeon RX 480 could have been a RX 460 or something.

It's a mid-range part... AMD needed to offer something better.

CGI-Quality said:

If you were talking Titans vs an AMD equivalent, then yeah, I'd probably agree, even as a Titan buyer.

AMD's answer to Titan was actually Fury. - Obviously that didn't reach the required heights.
Fury's successor is of course... Vega 64. - Which also didn't hit the required heights.

AMD right now doesn't have an answer in the high-end, but that has been that way for what feels like half a decade now.

shikamaru317 said:
KingofTrolls said:

One link, please? I kinda did a research and "concrete GPU " if this is just normal GPUs, are in decline in sales.

Yeah, I just checked the December 2018 Steam Hardware survey, and the 780, 980, 980m, 980ti, 1080, 1080 ti, and 2080 add up to just 6.21% of GPU's used by gamers on Steam. Titan V, Titan RTX, Titan X, Titan XP,  2080ti, and Vega 64 percentages are too low to even show up on Steam, so we're talking less than 0.15% on each of those models. It's clear to me why AMD just doesn't care about competing at the high end anymore when the total high-end marketshare across multiple generations of models from AMD and Nvidia is less than 10%.

That being said, AMD does need to try harder on mid-high end, the combined marketshare for Nvidia's "70" tier models, 1070 ti, 1070, 970, 770, 970m, and 2070 is 9.42%, while AMD's current marketshare in that mid-high end tier is less than 1%, and their most recent mid-high end chipset, the Vega 56, is at less than 0.15%, too low to even show up on the Steam Hardware survey.

The point of their existence isn't to shift extreme volumes... They are Halo products.
It's no coincidence that since AMD has not had a decisive high-end GPU in years that their Marketshare has been in serious decline... People forget that at one point Radeon had almost 60% of discreet GPU sales at it's height... Now it's 20% or less of the market.

Besides, high-end products generally have higher profit margins to accompany their performance, which makes up for smaller sales... (Outside of Cryptocurrency booms of course.)

freebs2 said:

As for PS3, the reason why the GPU was weaker is mostly due to the fact that until the later stages of HDW development Sony planned to use the Cell to render games instead of a regular GPU. The RSX was inferior simply because it was engeneered on a short notice.

Nah.



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