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Why did Jesus Christ sacrifice his self for you?

Forums - General Discussion - Why did Jesus Christ sacrifice his self for you?

d21lewis said:
Jesus is A-okay in my book.

Is it the good book?



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Chris Hu said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

There is good evidence that he existed. Just not proof beyond a shadow of a doubt. Josephus is one such piece of evidence. Paul never knew Jesus but met Jesus' birth brother. And that alone is equal in evidence to a first person account of Jesus. If we know somebody's brother existed, then we know that somebody also existed as well. Finally, we have Tacitus a Roman Senator and Historian saying that Jesus existed, and was killed. 

Now what about evidence for Jesus Mythicism? There isn't any. It's all speculation, and theory. 

So even though the evidence isn't an absolute slam dunk of irrefutable proof, I have to side with Jesus being a historical figure. Few things in history are ever proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. For that we would need archaeology. But most of history relies on the written word. 

Nope, there is zero evidence that Jesus ever existed.  Of course if you believe in some or even most of the ancient myth and fair tales in the book that also contains Jesus then its pretty easy to convince yourself that he actually existed.  With most historical real people from the past there are numerous sources of evidence that they actually existed. 

There's indeed no conclusive evidence for his existence. However, it's more likely that he did than that he didn't. It wouldn't have made much sense for Paul to just completely make up this guy.

That said, even if we assume that Jesus is real, there are very few things we actually know about him. The vast majority was obviously made up by Paul to fit his ideology - in fact, Paul never really says that any of his proto-Christian beliefs were supported by Jesus (he didn't care about what Jesus said, he only cared about his alleged resurrection). Basically, the only things we can tell about him from Paul's texts is that he was some guy that had some alternative/rebellious religious and political views, and that he may have had a certain following, and that he got executed for that by the Romans (which didn't really make him special or unique, I assume that happened quite often).



He died because of our sins, simple as that.

But I knew this thread would only devolve on jokes or "he did not exist", completely deviating from the topic at hand, like all other threads with religious topics...



Chris Hu said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

There is good evidence that he existed. Just not proof beyond a shadow of a doubt. Josephus is one such piece of evidence. Paul never knew Jesus but met Jesus' birth brother. And that alone is equal in evidence to a first person account of Jesus. If we know somebody's brother existed, then we know that somebody also existed as well. Finally, we have Tacitus a Roman Senator and Historian saying that Jesus existed, and was killed. 

Now what about evidence for Jesus Mythicism? There isn't any. It's all speculation, and theory. 

So even though the evidence isn't an absolute slam dunk of irrefutable proof, I have to side with Jesus being a historical figure. Few things in history are ever proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. For that we would need archaeology. But most of history relies on the written word. 

Nope, there is zero evidence that Jesus ever existed.  Of course if you believe in some or even most of the ancient myth and fair tales in the book that also contains Jesus then its pretty easy to convince yourself that he actually existed.  With most historical real people from the past there are numerous sources of evidence that they actually existed. 

That isn't a rebuttal though. I keep giving you evidence that he existed, and you keep simply stating that there is no evidence, without dealing with what I actually said. 



The sentence below is false. 
The sentence above is true. 

Mr_No said:
He died because of our sins, simple as that.

But I knew this thread would only devolve on jokes or "he did not exist", completely deviating from the topic at hand, like all other threads with religious topics...

As it deserves to. The thread title is a rigged question to begin with. Its like asking somebody why they beat their wife (despite the fact that they don't). 



The sentence below is false. 
The sentence above is true. 

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Cerebralbore101 said:
Mr_No said:
He died because of our sins, simple as that.

But I knew this thread would only devolve on jokes or "he did not exist", completely deviating from the topic at hand, like all other threads with religious topics...

As it deserves to. The thread title is a rigged question to begin with. Its like asking somebody why they beat their wife (despite the fact that they don't). 

Yeah true,it looks like the OP mildly used it as an offensive against nonbelievers.



All praise Odin.



Jesus was an honorable man with the knowledge of the Secret teachings from sumer and Egypt. He got that knowledge from the Magi of the east which were originaly 12 but only 3 of Them come to find Jesus and Bless him with the Secret teachings of Osiris but thats another Story.

The Church itself is nothing more as a liying Killing psychopathic organization. This counts for catholics and protestants alike. Since when does god need money? Jesus Said its easier to cure a persons Body as the persons mind. When is the Last Time a Priester healed anyones cancer? They are Scharlatans Using Jesus Name to spit on Master jesus. Day by day. Since 2000 years. Disgusting.



Cerebralbore101 said:
Chris Hu said:

Nope, there is zero evidence that Jesus ever existed.  Of course if you believe in some or even most of the ancient myth and fair tales in the book that also contains Jesus then its pretty easy to convince yourself that he actually existed.  With most historical real people from the past there are numerous sources of evidence that they actually existed. 

That isn't a rebuttal though. I keep giving you evidence that he existed, and you keep simply stating that there is no evidence, without dealing with what I actually said. 

I don't think the evidence is very strong.  I don't believe that Paul necessarily met the birth brother of Jesus.  It may have been the case that James was his birth brother, but the word brother (or its translation) is also used in other contexts, like a follower or close friend.  

As for Josephus, he was born in 37 AD, so he wouldn't have been an eye witness and there is speculation that the passages on Jesus may have been later interpolations.  I really don't have the scholarship to address that, but it's not a fringe view.

Overall, the evidence is very limited.  I tend to side with historicity, because it honestly doesn't matter too much to my beliefs, and I think arguing his non-existence is more difficult than addressing the way more obvious flaws.  But I would tenuously agree that there is no good evidence.

Mr_No said:
He died because of our sins, simple as that.

But I knew this thread would only devolve on jokes or "he did not exist", completely deviating from the topic at hand, like all other threads with religious topics...

It's not deviating from the topic at hand.  It is directly addressing it.  For a claim with no evidence "that didn't happen" is a perfectly valid response.  For a ridiculous claim ridicule is appropriate. 



JWeinCom said:

As for Josephus, he was born in 37 AD, so he wouldn't have been an eye witness and there is speculation that the passages on Jesus may have been later interpolations.  I really don't have the scholarship to address that, but it's not a fringe view.

All Scholars agree that "the Jesus text" in Josephus people still use as proof is a later christian addition/forgery and was not in the original text. There is no argument or speculation about that. Also there are several Jesuses mentioned in various parts of the original texts, none of which match "the" Jesus. Whether Jesus actually existed at all is open to debate. A luxury we actually have in the Christian world. Try that with Mohammed and the Quran in the Islamic world.....