So derived from humans, not God?

Not towards you.  It's related to the debate Eric is pushing. I want him to see it and respond.

@EricHiggin

Sorry to lead you in the dark that way.

No no no, not that.   And they don't often apologize either.

Hehe, like a priest would say. 

Ontopic: I do know some good people that are Christian but most of them kinda worry for what happens to me after i die,part of me wants to be kinda offended by it,another feels pity for them and the last part is semi gratefull that they care for me.

"The difference between science and religion is that it doesn't care about yours or anyones feelings."

This is such a silly understanding of what science is

science is only as beneficial to humanity as its practitioners will allow it to be and its practitioners have routinely demonstrated that quite often it is not rationality that wins out in the end

"Science doesn't have any of this bullshit.
If science is used for "bad deeds" it's not the fault of science"

Isn't gun control requested, for example, because the type of science that has gone into creating guns has facilitated the ability to kill people more easily?

how is that not the fault of the types of experimentation that has lead to perfecting guns as killing weapons?

science is a practice, its something that someone does to solve a particular problem and if the problem is to say kill people, then experimentation is done to refine technology used for killing

Hehe, like a priest would say. 

Ontopic: I do know some good people that are Christian but most of them kinda worry for what happens to me after i die,part of me wants to be kinda offended by it,another feels pity for them and the last part is semi gratefull that they care for me.

The difference between science and religion is that it doesn't care about yours or anyones feelings.
Science isn't "Good or Evil" it is an explanation of the natural world.

For example... Science unlike religion...

* Is not telling you to kill Homosexuals.
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.” - Leviticus 20:13 NAB

* Kill children.
"Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword.  Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes.  Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes.  For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off.  The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows.  They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children." - Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT

* Again... More killing of Children.
“For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.” - Leviticus 20:9

* Your God demanding child sacrifices.
"Jephthah killed his young daughter (his only child) by burning her alive as a burnt sacrifice to the lord for he commanded it." - Judges 11:30-40

* Forcing men to marry their Rape victims.
"If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father.  Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her." - Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NAB

* Death to rape victim.
"If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife." - Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB

* Supports Slavery.
"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear.  Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. " - Ephesians 6:5 NLT

And before you claim that some of that is "old testament". - The new Testament also has horrific shit in it also.

Not to mention... The Old Testament is still binding which is supported by many Christian denominations and literal interpretations and the Bible itself.
I.E.
* Old Testament is to be obeyed until the end of human existence itself. Jesus said so.
“For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished.  Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” - Matthew 5:18-19 RSV

* Old Testament laws are binding forever.
“It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.” - Luke 16:17 NAB

I could list more.

Science doesn't have any of this bullshit.
If science is used for "bad deeds" it's not the fault of science, because science has never told someone they need to marry their rape victim.

I am happy to accept evidence in "religious form". - Whatever that means. But if it doesn't conform to the scientific method, it will be discarded.

Science doesn't need to prove itself, because science is built on evidence and is the explanation of the natural world.

Remember, Science flies us to other planets... Religion flies us into buildings.

I am not debating to change your mind and accept anything, I am debating for those who are sitting on the fence and hopefully see the logic in the arguments put forth.

And false, if you have evidence that your particular exists, then I will believe it... But considering Christianity has had over 6,000+ years and haven't done so... I don't hold much hope in a random forum dweller on the internet to be able to come up with anything legitimate.

And answer me this, how do you know you have picked the right God instead of one of the other thousands littered all through history who claims the exact same thing?

If you try to commit suicide, then you are going against the human condition. - We have pain receptors, we have hormones which instill emotions such as fear in order to avoid such scenarios from occurring.

I have already explained the logic behind this.

The burden of proof lays upon the claimant. If I claimed the tooth fairy exists, then I need to prove it. But I haven't.

You have claimed God exists... So you need to prove it, not me.

Upset? No. Disgusted is what I am.

Sending "thoughts and prayers" is just feel-good bullshit so the Prime Minister could feel good about himself whilst he went on holiday and had the time of his life whilst property, life and the environment was destroyed in a national emergency.

Thoughts and Prayers in short... Does fuck all.

Do you know who saved lives? People like myself who had the motivation to get out there, give up months of our lives, potentially putting our own lives at risk and assisting our communities in times of need.
I did that. Not thoughts and prayers. - Religion is an insult to the hard-work I did.
Sending thoughts and prayers is an insult to any free-thinking individual who is struggling and the hard work us firefighters put forth for weeks/months on end.

Religion is a waste of time and space in any modern society.

If their hypothetical God was all loving... They wouldn't need to threaten billions of people with eternal torture to gain peoples fake-love and acceptance.
It's using the power of fear and uncertainty.

Hell hasn't been proven to exist anymore than heaven or God itself.. So there is that nugget of comfort.

You cannot tie Science to morality. They are completely different.

The scientific method gave us gunpowder, which originally was used for medical purposes.. It was later that it was used in warfare by those with less than honorable ideas.
Science doesn't control how something gets used, science is about explaining how it works.

Religion is the opposite, it dictates how we should treat others... And like the Bible verses I provided earlier... It doesn't care if it makes statements like telling  men to marry their rape victims. Science doesn't partake in any of that. It doesn't care about morality.

People need to stop trying to tie science to human emotion.

The power of fear does some crazy shit to people, it can throw all rationality out the window.

Take the current Corona virus issue for example.

Science is never used for the military? Does every country and it's military only fight other nations based on religion? Does the fighting ever happen simply due to political differences, resources, etc. Is militarized self defense to prolong citizens lives a specific ridiculous religious belief?

Science and global warming? We're all screwed in a decades time? Then another decade? Then another? Why the fear mongering? If that's not science, why isn't science doing what's necessary to make things clear and get the proper message out? Is the public fear useful perhaps? Someone else's problem now?

Not all religion becomes useful, just like science. Not all unnecessary religion goes away forever, like science.

You do see the problem here right? A religious person can use that right back against you. 'I will accept evidence in scientific form, but if it doesn't conform to the biblical method, it will be discarded'. Do you not see the problem with the ONE and ONLY viewpoint from both sides?

Then religion doesn't need to prove itself. Religion is based on the spiritual world, which is also somewhat tied to the natural world.

Don't Forget, Science blows up space shuttles, killing the people on board. It also suggests people should remain on other planets with no return.

Neither am I.

So does science have to fully explain the big bang, or maybe black holes, in that time frame then? Maybe less because it's so much more useful?

Same reason you don't truly know if science is everything and God is nothing.

Has the human condition ever changed over time? Have we always been exactly the same as we are now? Will we always be the same?

As I mentioned before, more help wouldn't have hurt on top of the hopes and prayers. Your efforts weren't for nothing, and no doubt are appreciated by many people in many ways, including religious. I've been told stories by local firefighters who are religious, who have thanked God for allowing their, or victims lives to be spared in specific incidents. Everyone has a different outlook on things. I'd say those individuals are extremely useful and not a waste. Without their beliefs, they very well may not be firefighters.

An all loving God, who creates a perfect universe and beings, almost has to remove free will. There can only be one path, because two different paths mean one will be seen as better than the other, if beings have free will and free thought. Why are some beings on the 'bad' path, as good as it may unknowingly be? All you have to do is look at the world today for proof. It's so much better than it was not all that long ago, more so the further back you go, and yet people in general still think the world is a horrible place. Once something get's bettered and becomes a positive, it becomes the norm, then becomes negative again eventually after enough time. You can never please all beings unless they have no thought or choice. Then you've simply created mindless robots.

If you don't believe, sure. Neither has the matrix, but science is studying that, and apparently thinks there's some reason to believe this all could potentially be fake. If we're all really just brains in a jar, does any of this matter?

Is it moral to help/treat people with illness if we can using science? Is it moral to use science to better our weapons for self defense?

Do people ever have (life threatening) negative reactions to medical treatments? Do weapons end human lives when used for self defense?

So we have only religion to thank for hospitals and the national guard?

Science is the explanation of the natural world. It doesn't care how something is used... How are you not understanding this? It's basic logic.

And often... The American military hides behind the 'guise of religion to justify it's wars... Pretty sure we have never seen a country enter a war with the slogan "FOR SCIENCE!".

Science doesn't care if someone uses a tool to kill someone, that has nothing to do with science.

Science has no emotion. How are you not able to understand this?

Science is just the explanation of the natural world, it is human beings that inject emotion into it.

Science again... Does not care about your feelings, it's all about facts, logic and evidence. - If the world is warming and science empirically proves it... Then so be it. It isn't propagating baseless fear, it is propagating the truth.

Science doesn't care if something is useful or not. Again... You are placing "feelings" into the scientific method.
Science is all about explaining the natural world through repeatable scientific testing, functional models that define a theory.

Religion is all about "what-if" hypotheticals and touchy-feely feel-good bullshit so people can sleep better at night.

Because the Scientific method is a PROVEN method to finding the Truth.

Religion is NOT a PROVEN method to finding the Truth.

When religion can prove it's assertions like... I dunno. Their God existing, then we can have a proper discussion.

Science however has proven it's assertions like the Big Bang and Evolution... Which religion will decry at every turn because it comes into conflict with it's indoctrination.

Science has explained the big bang and black holes.

The Big Bang is supported by evidence... Such as the Cosmic Microwave Background or CMB.

Black holes are also supported by observable evidence...

The evidence is then used to construct a functional model which is then used in scientific theories.

Science doesn't give two shits if it's useful or not, science is about explaining the natural world, the big-bang and black holes are part of the natural world, science doesn't claim to "know everything". - But it does claim to try and find out over time.

Since recorded history, yes.

Feel free to give up every single modern comfort you enjoy if that is your line of thinking.
The materials used to construct your home? Science.
Medicines to cure your ailments? Science.
Vehicles that get you to work? Science.
The video games you play? Science.

Even the books that religious texts are written on... Is thanks to science.

I never said my efforts weren't for nothing.

The point I am trying to convey is that idiots who are in a position to assist others... And do not and thus only sends thoughts and prayers are an insult to mine and every other first-responders efforts.

In short... What I am trying to say is... Throw the stupid religious book out the window, jump on a fire truck and go save a life, touchy-feel good bullshit does nothing... And that is why our Prime Minister is a joke, religion came first before the lives of others.

Religion was a waste while Australia burned, thoughts and prayers didn't put the fire out, hard work in conjunction with the right sequence of weather events did.

If the universe was perfect I wouldn't be cutting a child out of a car.
I wouldn't have to watch my best mate spend months fighting cancer.
I wouldn't have had to scale down a cliff to try and rescue a woman for 12+ hours only for her to die in my arms.

This isn't free-will, no one chooses these things.

If your God exists... Then your God allows for these things to happen... And it is entirely your Gods fault... And thus your God is an evil, immoral, disgusting monster not worthy of worship.

It's the power of science and the individuals that put in the hard work that saves lives and makes the world a better place, not your God.

It's a hypothesis, not a functional model based on a scientific theory or fact.

Science explains how we can cure the illness... After that, it is entirely up to human beings on how that is used.
Science has nothing to do with morality, feelings or anything else, it's just an explanation of how something works.