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Forums - General Discussion - Why did Jesus Christ sacrifice his self for you?

Why is this thread even a thing? OP is just proselytizing with low effort nonsense.

OP, learn logic, learn science, abandon superstition. Your life will improve dramatically.

Tons of humans have "sacrificed" themselves. What do you think war is, exactly? Mind-boggling how a story from the bronze age captivates adults in 2019 while we've just discovered the key to fusion power.

I only imagine you literally live under a rock, completely isolated from any redeeming thoughts that controvert your incredibly sophomoric positions on life.



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Cerebralbore101 said:
sethnintendo said:
All praise Odin.

Found the one guy that hasn't yet played God of War. ;)

Guilty as charged.  Do I need to update my Norse beliefs based off a video game?



Eagle367 said:
In my religion, he didn't because in my religion the sole person who can take on your sins is you, yourself and you alone. And God has the power to forgive your sins if you ask for forgiveness from the bottom of your heart without any sacrifice. There is no original sin nor does anyone bear the sins of their ancestors or descendants. Jesus was a prophet in my religion and a remarkable one but no where close to God. And the entire mythos of Jesus is long to explain here in my religion

"Sin" is a religious invention... And I am of the belief that if said religions aren't able to substantiate their various religious assertions with actual empirical evidence... Then we can discard all of said claims with zero evidence... And Sin can go away with it.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:
Eagle367 said:
In my religion, he didn't because in my religion the sole person who can take on your sins is you, yourself and you alone. And God has the power to forgive your sins if you ask for forgiveness from the bottom of your heart without any sacrifice. There is no original sin nor does anyone bear the sins of their ancestors or descendants. Jesus was a prophet in my religion and a remarkable one but no where close to God. And the entire mythos of Jesus is long to explain here in my religion

"Sin" is a religious invention... And I am of the belief that if said religions aren't able to substantiate their various religious assertions with actual empirical evidence... Then we can discard all of said claims with zero evidence... And Sin can go away with it.

That is a very abstract and philosophical conversation, not a scientific one. You can't shoehorn science into everything. Because science can measure the physical, not the abstract. Is murder wrong because it's an evolutionary advantage and is in our genes or is there actually a soul and a set morality that is ingrained in us not biologically but metaphysically. Is morality the consequence of our time or is there an absolute morality that we are following or not. These are questions beyond science. Science has a lot of advantages but can't do everything. All intellectuals including atheists acknowledge that. Try asking people at the top of their scientific fields and they will tell you the same



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

Eagle367 said:
Pemalite said:

"Sin" is a religious invention... And I am of the belief that if said religions aren't able to substantiate their various religious assertions with actual empirical evidence... Then we can discard all of said claims with zero evidence... And Sin can go away with it.

That is a very abstract and philosophical conversation, not a scientific one. You can't shoehorn science into everything. Because science can measure the physical, not the abstract. Is murder wrong because it's an evolutionary advantage and is in our genes or is there actually a soul and a set morality that is ingrained in us not biologically but metaphysically. Is morality the consequence of our time or is there an absolute morality that we are following or not. These are questions beyond science. Science has a lot of advantages but can't do everything. All intellectuals including atheists acknowledge that. Try asking people at the top of their scientific fields and they will tell you the same

It's actually very pragmatic.
If assertions cannot be justified with empirical evidence.... I.E. Sin, God, Hell and so on, then they can be discarded.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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Cerebralbore101 said:
Chris Hu said:

Did I miss something here you didn't present any decent evidence of Jesus existence to me.  The overwhelming evidence brought fourth in the last 20 years all supports the fact that Jesus never existed or at best he was just some regular guy that got turned into a legend after his death.  Anyway if you want some deep insides of how flawed Christianity is I'm not the guy to asked since I never considered myself to be true believer anyway I always believed that the Bible is nothing more then a loose collection of myth and fair tales and not a very good one either since it borrowed many of its myth from other religions.  I suggest you watch some videos from Seth Andrews.

So you don't think that the three Josephus passages, the Tacitus passage, or Paul's letter are good evidence? Why not? 

Any Seth Andrews videos you would like me to watch? Point them out, and I'll watch them. 

I'm an Atheist, but I think that Jesus Mythicism is almost as intellectually devoid as young earth creationism. Almost

Earl Doherty (the guy who originally put forth the Christ-Myth theory) doesn't have an actual degree in history as far as I can tell. He claims to have a degree in history, but when asked for proof, he dances around the subject. 

Richard Carrier (another Mythicist) doesn't have a degree in history either. 

Nearly all ancient historians and bible scholars agree that Jesus was a historical person. 

I mean, trust me man, if there were real evidence pointing to Jesus just being a myth, I'd jump all over it. I'd absolutely love to have such ammo to throw in the faces of proselytizerslike the OP of this thread. But sadly it isn't so. All the evidence points towards Jesus having existed. But I promise I'll watch any videos you link to, and keep an open mind. 

Bart Erhman 

Nope none of the evidence points towards Jesus having existed.  Nothing written about Jesus was written during his lifetime.  Everything written about Jesus was written by people that actually didn't know Jesus.  And if Jesus really was this awesome miracle worker as described in the New Testament somebody would have wrote something about him during his lifetime.



Chris Hu said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

So you don't think that the three Josephus passages, the Tacitus passage, or Paul's letter are good evidence? Why not? 

Any Seth Andrews videos you would like me to watch? Point them out, and I'll watch them. 

I'm an Atheist, but I think that Jesus Mythicism is almost as intellectually devoid as young earth creationism. Almost

Earl Doherty (the guy who originally put forth the Christ-Myth theory) doesn't have an actual degree in history as far as I can tell. He claims to have a degree in history, but when asked for proof, he dances around the subject. 

Richard Carrier (another Mythicist) doesn't have a degree in history either. 

Nearly all ancient historians and bible scholars agree that Jesus was a historical person. 

I mean, trust me man, if there were real evidence pointing to Jesus just being a myth, I'd jump all over it. I'd absolutely love to have such ammo to throw in the faces of proselytizerslike the OP of this thread. But sadly it isn't so. All the evidence points towards Jesus having existed. But I promise I'll watch any videos you link to, and keep an open mind. 

Bart Erhman 

Nope none of the evidence points towards Jesus having existed.  Nothing written about Jesus was written during his lifetime.  Everything written about Jesus was written by people that actually didn't know Jesus.  And if Jesus really was this awesome miracle worker as described in the New Testament somebody would have wrote something about him during his lifetime.

Josephus and Tacitus were almost certainly working from official government documents, which would have been written during Jesus' lifetime. Paul never met Jesus but he knew Jesus' literal brother as well as many of the original Apostles. So did all of the apostles that Paul met, just up and lie to him about how they spent a large portion of their lives with Jesus? Keep in mind that the Apostles Paul met were not the authors of the Gospels. The Gospels were written pseudoanonymously in their names. 

And if Jesus really was this awesome miracle worker as described in the New Testament somebody would have wrote something about him during his lifetime. 

True. But that just means he wasn't an awesome miracle worker. Not that he never even existed. He was just a man teaching parables out in a dusty corner of the Roman Empire. His followers were fanatics and made up a bunch of junk about him to the point that we'll never truly know what the real man was like. Some scholars have gone as far as to deconstruct the Gospels, finding a book within them that predates Mark. Said book only contains saying of Jesus, and no miracle stuff. It is called the book of Q, but scholars argue over whether it truly existed, or whether Mark, Luke, and Mathew's authors just copied most of Mark. But it is pretty interesting. Just a little side note I guess. 

 



Thing is ,if Jesus did exist and he knew how his name has been used as a tool for might and violence he most likely would have been very disgusted with it.
There is a good chance he existed but not in the way he is written down and used as.



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Cerebralbore101 said:

Richard Carrier (another Mythicist) doesn't have a degree in history either. 

Wow, someone better call Columbia University, as

Richard Carrier has a Ph.D. from Columbia University in ancient history

And calling him "another Mysthicist" instantly disqualifies you in this discussion.



drkohler said:
...

Wow, someone better call Columbia University, as

Richard Carrier has a Ph.D. from Columbia University in ancient history

And calling him "another Mysthicist" instantly disqualifies you in this discussion.

And also ,a university degree is a good base to build on to but most knowledge comes from experience afterwards.