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The Division 2 is skipping Steam

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Chazore said:
Raven722 said:

We'll see how well Epic Games does with this. If the Epic Games Store fails to provide meaningful sales overall then this will probably be a very short lived run of exclusive titles. I can understand publishers wanting to make their own games exclusive to their own stores but this is something different. If games like The Division 2 end up with poor PC sales and it gets determined they would have been much better off letting the game be sold on Steam as well then this practice might not last. It may also just be something that Epic Games is paying a good deal of money for upfront to help get their own store off the ground and they stop doing it later. I'm not even sure these store exclusivity deals are something permanent. On the flip side, if the Epic Games Store does well, then Valve will be forced to respond somehow. I'd say a good start would be cleaning up their mess of a store. Way too much garbage on it with few methods of effectively filtering it out.

Well seeing as how it's been seen and talked about, that buying up exclusivity on PC isn't a good practice, it really isn't to be counted as a good one.

 

In the console space, you need to sell those plastic boxes, but on PC you don't need to sell hw, you don't even need to sell a storefront as signing up for one costs literally nothing. ALl this does is force people back and forth in a game of musical chairs, only they get yanked around with less and less benefits each time, while publishers and studios reap more and more. That's not a good thing, it's never a good thing for the consumer to lose out,m even in the slightest. Why should the consumer ever have to lose out in any sort of deal?.

What exactly would Valve do to gain back the likes of Ubisoft?, a company that still thinks PC gamers as pirates (their 4 layer DRM and Uplay requirement state this boldy) and wants more and more money. You can't pull the "develop more games" tactic, because they are already making games and have released one recently. They already have tools on Steam for you to use in order to filter out games you don't like as well.

 

Also another thing, since when has your idea (or anyone else's for that matter) of "curation" been objectively better for me?. I ask this, because every time someone mentions that X store needs "curation", they seemingly forget that said "curation" requires subjective input and subjective action to be taken. You're effectively using a small group, or single person's bias, in determining what I should play, vs what we all could play.

I've seen Jim sterling argue about curation and how it mucks things up. We've also seen how this rolled over on GoG, when a moderator disallowed a game onto their storefront, simply because they thought it was a mobile game, when in reality it was a puzzle game from a known puzzle game dev. Curation is subjective, it is also very flawed on it's own. It's never objective and it always serves for one particular groups tastes. 

If Steam was to heavily or even "lightly" curate itself, we wouldn't get one hit wonders like Undertale or Stardew Valley, simply because they look like a typical RPG maker game. 

 

I do not agree with Epic doing this, and I absolutely hate Tencent with a passion. I strongly feel that Tencent just wants to own everything and control what they can get a hold of. Has Chinese gaming ever truly cared about what th West wants?. Have they been totally legit fair on their side of the games industry, with zero MT's in their games, and plenty of fully fledged, well written SP games, ones that aren't complete and utter copyrighted ripoffs?. 

What I want are more effective filters for me to use so I don't have to search through tons of shovelware games when looking for deals. If there is a method where I can ignore these on their lists then by all means tell me. I would be thrilled. That being said, there is nothing wrong with someone wanting to not see a ton of these little games. I'm not advocating that Steam block or make these games hard to find. I simply want a tool I can use to not have to sift through hundreds of "Oppai Girl" or "Elder Killer" games. I don't have any issue with these games existing. Hell I was fine with AIDS Simulator or Active Shooter. They just don't have any relevance to my interests and it's a pain in the ass for me to browse their lists because of it.



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Raven722 said:

What I want are more effective filters for me to use so I don't have to search through tons of shovelware games when looking for deals. If there is a method where I can ignore these on their lists then by all means tell me. I would be thrilled. That being said, there is nothing wrong with someone wanting to not see a ton of these little games. I'm not advocating that Steam block or make these games hard to find. I simply want a tool I can use to not have to sift through hundreds of "Oppai Girl" or "Elder Killer" games. I don't have any issue with these games existing. Hell I was fine with AIDS Simulator or Active Shooter. They just don't have any relevance to my interests and it's a pain in the ass for me to browse their lists because of it.

Steam has the ability to to click on a not interested button which makes that game not come up in pages in which you do not specifically search for that game. Not only that, but most of steam's search results and ads for games are tailored to the user ....



AngryLittleAlchemist said:
Raven722 said:

What I want are more effective filters for me to use so I don't have to search through tons of shovelware games when looking for deals. If there is a method where I can ignore these on their lists then by all means tell me. I would be thrilled. That being said, there is nothing wrong with someone wanting to not see a ton of these little games. I'm not advocating that Steam block or make these games hard to find. I simply want a tool I can use to not have to sift through hundreds of "Oppai Girl" or "Elder Killer" games. I don't have any issue with these games existing. Hell I was fine with AIDS Simulator or Active Shooter. They just don't have any relevance to my interests and it's a pain in the ass for me to browse their lists because of it.

Steam has the ability to to click on a not interested button which makes that game not come up in pages in which you do not specifically search for that game. Not only that, but most of steam's search results and ads for games are tailored to the user ....

I did not know that! Thank you!

As far as being tailored to me in search results, I don't think that works when I'm just browsing all the deals. Even when I have it set to sort by relevance it gives me a ton of games that are certainly not relevant to me.



Raven722 said:

What I want are more effective filters for me to use so I don't have to search through tons of shovelware games when looking for deals. If there is a method where I can ignore these on their lists then by all means tell me. I would be thrilled. That being said, there is nothing wrong with someone wanting to not see a ton of these little games. I'm not advocating that Steam block or make these games hard to find. I simply want a tool I can use to not have to sift through hundreds of "Oppai Girl" or "Elder Killer" games. I don't have any issue with these games existing. Hell I was fine with AIDS Simulator or Active Shooter. They just don't have any relevance to my interests and it's a pain in the ass for me to browse their lists because of it.

I'm aware that Alchy has pointed this out to you, but Steam definitely does give you various options to remove what you dislike seeing on the storefront. You can use tags to block, click on "not interested" to never see the game again, or simply use the discovery queue each time you get a chance to make use of it, effectively tailoring the storefront to show more of what you want to see, and less of what you don't want to see.

It's thanks to the queue primarily, as well as the tagging system, that I am able to completely filter out any upcoming or current early access title, meaning I only see complete games, or games that are due to release. 

Steam gives us these options that their competitors don't bother dabbling with. No other storefront gives us multiple options like that to filter what we want to see, while people act brainlets in championing Epic, a company who hasn't really cared for PC gaming in a very long time, and only now do they do small steps because we scream at them for it, not because they want to, but because they have zero choice. They either do what Steam does, or they face getting slapped by consumers (at this point they seem to care more for devs, while some devs are actually trying to tell Epic to care about consumers).



                                       

Chazore said:
Raven722 said:

What I want are more effective filters for me to use so I don't have to search through tons of shovelware games when looking for deals. If there is a method where I can ignore these on their lists then by all means tell me. I would be thrilled. That being said, there is nothing wrong with someone wanting to not see a ton of these little games. I'm not advocating that Steam block or make these games hard to find. I simply want a tool I can use to not have to sift through hundreds of "Oppai Girl" or "Elder Killer" games. I don't have any issue with these games existing. Hell I was fine with AIDS Simulator or Active Shooter. They just don't have any relevance to my interests and it's a pain in the ass for me to browse their lists because of it.

I'm aware that Alchy has pointed this out to you, but Steam definitely does give you various options to remove what you dislike seeing on the storefront. You can use tags to block, click on "not interested" to never see the game again, or simply use the discovery queue each time you get a chance to make use of it, effectively tailoring the storefront to show more of what you want to see, and less of what you don't want to see.

It's thanks to the queue primarily, as well as the tagging system, that I am able to completely filter out any upcoming or current early access title, meaning I only see complete games, or games that are due to release. 

Steam gives us these options that their competitors don't bother dabbling with. No other storefront gives us multiple options like that to filter what we want to see, while people act brainlets in championing Epic, a company who hasn't really cared for PC gaming in a very long time, and only now do they do small steps because we scream at them for it, not because they want to, but because they have zero choice. They either do what Steam does, or they face getting slapped by consumers (at this point they seem to care more for devs, while some devs are actually trying to tell Epic to care about consumers).

Thank you both for this. I was unaware of this despite having used Steam for years. This certainly changes my opinion on how Steam handles itself. As far as Epic Games Store goes, my hope is that exclusivity doesn't work and Epic has to find a new angle to try and break into the market. That Ubisoft tries this and it doesn't work out and serves as a warning to other companies that making your games exclusive to certain platforms, at least those that are not your own, isn't a profitable endeavor. None of these other stores seem to have the features Steam does. Epic Games Store itself is rather bare bones by comparison. 



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Raven722 said:

Thank you both for this. I was unaware of this despite having used Steam for years. This certainly changes my opinion on how Steam handles itself. As far as Epic Games Store goes, my hope is that exclusivity doesn't work and Epic has to find a new angle to try and break into the market. That Ubisoft tries this and it doesn't work out and serves as a warning to other companies that making your games exclusive to certain platforms, at least those that are not your own, isn't a profitable endeavor. None of these other stores seem to have the features Steam does. Epic Games Store itself is rather bare bones by comparison. 

It's my pleasure. I just want to make sure people on here know that Steam definitely does provide you with the means to wipe away what you don't want to see, vs what you want to see more of. People just have to try it and see what they can do with what they will/want.


See, while some think Epic is "healthy" competition, in reality it is, just for devs, but for us, no, we're actually going to be offsetting the bulk of the costs that devs/Steam would normally pay onto us, rather than entirely onto Epic:

 

If you read the rest of that tweet chain, you'll spot a dev noticing howm this will affect the consumer, and that they do not wish for us to suffer for it. While Epic has to match Steam for regional sector pricing, they seemingly do not want to offset costs on their own end, rather instead that they want to hand it over to us, the consumer. This means that we won't be seeing old Steam level sales all around on their storefront, if anything the prices will either be the same as Steam's, or higher (Like with Origin/Uplay for example with other games, even EA's owned games).

 

Also, I've spoken to a dev behind Rebel Galaxy Outlaw, and he's stated that the price that they launch with on Epic, will remain exactly the same price that they will launch with when it lands on Steam, meaning that they don't want to price according to time passed (because time affects everything, yet Nintendo and this dev seem to think a year shouldn't even lower the price of their game), which naturally would benefit the consumer as well as generate some goodwill and sales (especially when you're exclusively locking yourself to an unpopular storefront).

Don't forget that Epic is still sorely missing in many a thing, from features to consumer support practices to general library size and quality. They already have a few early access games on there, so that must mean they will support all ea games right?, because if they don't, they are being very hypocritical about supporting the devs. They have to support what people call garbage, by allowing ea games to flood their storefront like they flood Steam's, or they risk being called out (and rightfully so, because if you support devs, you should and shall support them all) for not supporting them.

As much as I dislike how many devs are abusing the ea system, I strongly feel like holding Epic to their word, to the tip of their sword. If they don't follow through and support all devs, let alone their obvious venture with ea, then they deserve what comes their way. Had they not boasted about wanting to aid devs, they could have approached selective support easily (which I wouldn't vouch for, since that actually means less good games for us). 

I think the idea with Ubisoft moving over to Epic, is that Ubisoft doesn't like user reviews, as well as how their refund system works. Having and being able to see less is good for Ubisoft, bad for us. At the same time though, they'll make more money with that 88/12 cut from Epic. Meaning they will make 100% from Uplay and 88% from Epic. Ubisoft is just plain greedy though. It's not about what you and I want, it's about more money. 

 

Epic has to shape ship before years end though. They definitely have an assload of cash and power to afford it with. They also have a mega corp like Tencent backing them up and controlling 40% of their company shares, so really, they've zero excuse to not be on, if not above Steam's level by this dec. We should not give them the whole "see you in 5-10yrs time" gig. They've got time and money, but more money and available R&D out there, that time shouldn't even come into the equation.