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Global Hardware 15 December 2018

Forums - Latest Charts - Global Hardware 15 December 2018

drinkandswim said:
CrazyGPU said:

Now on Sales again. Who is buying the Switch?

Let see the sales of Nintendo with Home Consoles (rounded numbers):

NES 62
SNES 49 - lost 13 million
N64 33 - lost 16 million
GC 22 - lost 11 million
Wii 102 - Bought by casuals and family a lot, sold at half the price than other consoles and introduced the controllers. Most hardcore gamers don´t like it.
Wii U 14 - lost 8 million from GC came back with the downward trend.

Gameboy 119
GB advance 81
Nintendo DS 155
Nintendo 3DS 74

Every Mobile console sold a lot, So as we can see if we take away the akward Wii and the novelty it brought (gone in nowadays consoles)
There was a Nintendo core between 10 a 20 million that would buy a new Home Console from them.
But millions and millions that were buying mobile consoles.
So Nintendo Develop the Switch, a handheld with tv connection with a dock that cools the thing, so it can run somewhat faster and connects to a TV.
They Smartly sell it as a Home Console that can be taken away. ( They needed Home Console buyers, they have plenty of mobile buyers). The smartest move of all.
And suddenly they sell a lot.
but when you see the numbers, the first year, the PS4 sells more, The second year, the PS4 sells more ( in it´s 5th year since launch). It´s pretty obvious that is not eating much sales from it or from XBOX. So, it´s pretty clear that it´s a secondary competitor.
What happend with the 3DS sales, They drop quickly!. So who is buying the Switch?
Mostly Nintendo fans, and mobile gamers that want to play on the go.
Who else?
Well, Nintendo has all the characters that you can buy in MC Donalds or at toy stores, So its a great present for Christmas. Also the catalog fits better for family than the other console catalog.
How can you prove that? Switch sudenly sells a lot more in November and December. That´s not hardcore fever. That´s holiday season.

What i´m trying to prove here is that it´s true that you have to choose between 3 console makers. But the target is completely different and the competition is mostly indirect between the switch and the other consoles. It´s designed as a mobile console and more are being bougth by mobile buyers than the rest of the customers.
So, if we compare console sales, you can compare it with the others, but when you compare home console sales, I think the comparision is a little misguided. And that´s why it matters if people call it a home console or not.

Now on a Personal note: I don´t mind if it sells tons more that a PS4 because as I said before , the more gamers play on Switch, the more gamers are going to buy PS or Xbox in the future.
Also The good is Switch is the best mobile console ever, and the most powerfull one. The bad is that it´s a underpowered Home Console that looks last gen compared with ps4 pro or XBox one X.
But for me, it´s kind of sad when Nintendo launched the most powerfull and first 64 bit console, Nintendo 64, codenamed proyect Reality for its graphics and named Machine of the year. Even Silicon Graphics was involved, the greatest graphic company of its time.
After that GameCube, designed by IBM for the CPU and ArtX , a team that form from Silicon Graphic engineers that made Flipper GPU, bougth by ATI and modified to make the awesome radeon 9700 pro.
Personally those were competitive Home Consoles from Nintendo, and not The Wii, or Wii U or Switch.
How can a Zelda or Mario be like with the same creativity but the hardware of Xbox One X... How big the worlds, How detailed those worlds, How a remake of Ocarina of Time or even A link to the past in 3D would be like....
Those who think I have dark intentions to downgrade Nintendo sales need a brain transplant.
But Nintendo feels like Valve making Dota 2 when they used to make Half Life, they are earning money for sure, but it´s not the same.

Its true Nintendo hasn’t been a direct competitor since the Gamecube. But they are still competiting and I would rather see Nintendo around then end up like Sega. Nintendo cant afford to take the same risks as Sony or Microsoft.

SO are you finally accepting that Switch isn't directly competing with PS4 and X1 and that the drop in sales is related to their age and saturation and not due to Switch doing great?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363


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When Nintendo has a successful console = Non direct! Doing their own thing!
When Nintendo has a less successful console = LOL can't compete with PS or Xbox LOL

It's pretty obvious that Nintendo having success is harmful and requires some mental gymnastics to cope.

Also, Switch has a core audience. You can't play the casual audience argument anymore.



DonFerrari said:
drinkandswim said:

Its true Nintendo hasn’t been a direct competitor since the Gamecube. But they are still competiting and I would rather see Nintendo around then end up like Sega. Nintendo cant afford to take the same risks as Sony or Microsoft.

SO are you finally accepting that Switch isn't directly competing with PS4 and X1 and that the drop in sales is related to their age and saturation and not due to Switch doing great?

I never thought they were a direct Competitor. I think they are a fringe competitor. That is why you only see a small impact. I mean obviously they can't be a direct competitor. They cant target the same exact market. And I agree that Switch has a greater impact on 3DS sales than PS4/Xbox Sales. However, that was necessary 3DS is way outdated hardware. 



DonFerrari said:
drinkandswim said:

Its true Nintendo hasn’t been a direct competitor since the Gamecube. But they are still competiting and I would rather see Nintendo around then end up like Sega. Nintendo cant afford to take the same risks as Sony or Microsoft.

SO are you finally accepting that Switch isn't directly competing with PS4 and X1 and that the drop in sales is related to their age and saturation and not due to Switch doing great?

I never thought they were a direct competitor, as in targeting the exact same audience. But I do believe there is a small impact on the fringe markets surrounding PS4 and Xbox One. 



OTBWY said:
When Nintendo has a successful console = Non direct! Doing their own thing!
When Nintendo has a less successful console = LOL can't compete with PS or Xbox LOL

It's pretty obvious that Nintendo having success is harmful and requires some mental gymnastics to cope.

Also, Switch has a core audience. You can't play the casual audience argument anymore.

Not this.

Nintendo saw they wouldn't be able to directly compete with Sony during PS1 and 2, then they started going for a market of their own since Wii and at the same time MS that started well in Xbox grow and made it even harder.

The flip flop you are putting is more to do with your interpretation to try and label others as Nintendo haters.

drinkandswim said:
DonFerrari said:

SO are you finally accepting that Switch isn't directly competing with PS4 and X1 and that the drop in sales is related to their age and saturation and not due to Switch doing great?

I never thought they were a direct Competitor. I think they are a fringe competitor. That is why you only see a small impact. I mean obviously they can't be a direct competitor. They cant target the same exact market. And I agree that Switch has a greater impact on 3DS sales than PS4/Xbox Sales. However, that was necessary 3DS is way outdated hardware. 

Ok thank you. All your posts on Switch making PS4 and X1 market shrinking seemed to indicate otherwise.

And of course there is some impact, indirect competitors and substitute products impact the market you are analyzing.

Also are you now more ready to accept that the YOY drop PS4 and X1 will get in 2019 and 2020 have more to do with their age and saturation than the success of Switch? (sure if Switch didn't exist the drop could be smaller, but not much).



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363


Around the Network
DonFerrari said:
OTBWY said:
When Nintendo has a successful console = Non direct! Doing their own thing!
When Nintendo has a less successful console = LOL can't compete with PS or Xbox LOL

It's pretty obvious that Nintendo having success is harmful and requires some mental gymnastics to cope.

Also, Switch has a core audience. You can't play the casual audience argument anymore.

Not this.

Nintendo saw they wouldn't be able to directly compete with Sony during PS1 and 2, then they started going for a market of their own since Wii and at the same time MS that started well in Xbox grow and made it even harder.

The flip flop you are putting is more to do with your interpretation to try and label others as Nintendo haters.

What market is that Don? Movies? Books? Or ... Video Games? In what market is the Switch killing it?



DonFerrari said:
OTBWY said:
When Nintendo has a successful console = Non direct! Doing their own thing!
When Nintendo has a less successful console = LOL can't compete with PS or Xbox LOL

It's pretty obvious that Nintendo having success is harmful and requires some mental gymnastics to cope.

Also, Switch has a core audience. You can't play the casual audience argument anymore.

Not this.

Nintendo saw they wouldn't be able to directly compete with Sony during PS1 and 2, then they started going for a market of their own since Wii and at the same time MS that started well in Xbox grow and made it even harder.

The flip flop you are putting is more to do with your interpretation to try and label others as Nintendo haters.

drinkandswim said:

I never thought they were a direct Competitor. I think they are a fringe competitor. That is why you only see a small impact. I mean obviously they can't be a direct competitor. They cant target the same exact market. And I agree that Switch has a greater impact on 3DS sales than PS4/Xbox Sales. However, that was necessary 3DS is way outdated hardware. 

Ok thank you. All your posts on Switch making PS4 and X1 market shrinking seemed to indicate otherwise.

And of course there is some impact, indirect competitors and substitute products impact the market you are analyzing.

Also are you now more ready to accept that the YOY drop PS4 and X1 will get in 2019 and 2020 have more to do with their age and saturation than the success of Switch? (sure if Switch didn't exist the drop could be smaller, but not much).

Well age and saturation definitely has an impact. So will people expecting next gen in 2020. I know I am holding off for that. I dont expect a huge drop for PS4 or Xbox One if they drop their prices. With a price drop maybe 10-15% drop. Xbox could see a bigger drop. I still think PS4 has a strong place in the Market due to their amazing library of games. 



Every time I enter this thread I hope there's some actual on topic discussion going on to take part in.

Once again leaving dissapointed



OTBWY said:
DonFerrari said:

Not this.

Nintendo saw they wouldn't be able to directly compete with Sony during PS1 and 2, then they started going for a market of their own since Wii and at the same time MS that started well in Xbox grow and made it even harder.

The flip flop you are putting is more to do with your interpretation to try and label others as Nintendo haters.

What market is that Don? Movies? Books? Or ... Video Games? In what market is the Switch killing it?

So all books are direct competitors with same public? All videos? All Cars? Smartphones and Consoles?

drinkandswim said:
DonFerrari said:

Not this.

Nintendo saw they wouldn't be able to directly compete with Sony during PS1 and 2, then they started going for a market of their own since Wii and at the same time MS that started well in Xbox grow and made it even harder.

The flip flop you are putting is more to do with your interpretation to try and label others as Nintendo haters.

Ok thank you. All your posts on Switch making PS4 and X1 market shrinking seemed to indicate otherwise.

And of course there is some impact, indirect competitors and substitute products impact the market you are analyzing.

Also are you now more ready to accept that the YOY drop PS4 and X1 will get in 2019 and 2020 have more to do with their age and saturation than the success of Switch? (sure if Switch didn't exist the drop could be smaller, but not much).

Well age and saturation definitely has an impact. So will people expecting next gen in 2020. I know I am holding off for that. I dont expect a huge drop for PS4 or Xbox One if they drop their prices. With a price drop maybe 10-15% drop. Xbox could see a bigger drop. I still think PS4 has a strong place in the Market due to their amazing library of games. 

Well you are on the minority as usually the people who buy late on the gen aren't the same that buy on the start, usually due to cost. You can get X1 or PS4 by 199 on promotions and have a big library with a lot of good games costing 5-10 instead of 400+ consoles with few games and all costing 60.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363


DonFerrari said:
OTBWY said:

What market is that Don? Movies? Books? Or ... Video Games? In what market is the Switch killing it?

So all books are direct competitors with same public? All videos? All Cars? Smartphones and Consoles?

Switch, PS4 and Xbox all play games, mostly the same games. A book and a movie are both part of the entertainment market, thus compete indirectly. However, this distinction is nowhere to be found between the current consoles. So if you're basing indirect competition in the range of focus group (which is wrong), what is the difference between the audiences? What goalpost do you have in mind?