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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Can MS & Sony just simply make next gen fully BC?

Pemalite said:

I don't think we will see Sony bother with Emulation, the Playstation 4 has affirmed that it really isn't necessary for good sales... So unless they can monetize it in someway, I doubt it will ever happen.

Happen to be proven wrong of course.

Well why did Sony bother with PS2 emulation and hundreds of PS3 games on PS Now? Because old games can be monetized.

BC isnt just about selling hardware and not every exclusive is gonna sell hardware either. But all of it combined is more notable content to access. And again, emulated content can also help push a Game Pass type of service or given out on PS+.

MS just gave out an OG Xbox game on GwG, I'm sure they will continue to do so. Meanwhile Sony is about to end PS3 free games because its useless on a PS4 even if it was notable content.



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DonFerrari said:
konnichiwa said:

Well it shows their is demand for it if anything.  MW2 used sales doesn't count so it is kind of impressive that a x360 game manages to make in the top 10 after the xone being 4- 5 yearish on the market

Sure it's impressive but still it isnt sold at 60 USD.

It is sold at 15-20 $ (gamestop as an example always raise prices of new bc games).

I don't really get trying to spin it in a negative way,  MS does the work and make it bc and Activision says yes you may make it BC Microsoft... and in the worst case Activision only made a million $ from it.  Gamers clearly wanted it and publishers make money with it.






Sony could do this on the PS5 in a heartbeat: It's called PS Now. Only "tech" they'd need to add to the Now service is to recognize a digital purchased PS4 game, or inserting a physical PS4 game disc, and then granting free access to that same title in PS Now running on the PS5. They could even keep their current PS Now sales model for all other devices and just give the PS5 an exclusive "backwards compatibility" feature by allowing free access to a PS Now game on a PS5 if the user already purchased a digital of physical PS4 copy.



forevercloud3000 said:
Correct me if I am wrong but Emulation is how you can be BC and not require Developer permissions.

Basically if the PS5 can emulate a PS4 via Software or partially Hardware wise it will be a piece of cake. It is largely considered that PS5 upgrade will be linear from PS4, meaning it shouldn't be difficult to do. PS3 started out with full BC because it used actual PS2 hardware inside to emulate. The later models lost that part of the chip to cut costs....but the PS1 games are actually still software emulated on all PS3s.

MS method of emulation can largely be the same as it is on XB1. Could actually be surprised if the huge power increase allows for more direct 360 emulation seeing as it isn't the drastically different like the PS3 was to PS4.

One revision of PS3 removed the HW but had SW BC, then they removed all BC.

https://support.playstation.com/s/article/Play-PSone-and-PlayStation-2-Games-on-a-PlayStation-3?language=en_US

Mr Puggsly said:
Pemalite said:

I don't think we will see Sony bother with Emulation, the Playstation 4 has affirmed that it really isn't necessary for good sales... So unless they can monetize it in someway, I doubt it will ever happen.

Happen to be proven wrong of course.

Well why did Sony bother with PS2 emulation and hundreds of PS3 games on PS Now? Because old games can be monetized.

BC isnt just about selling hardware and not every exclusive is gonna sell hardware either. But all of it combined is more notable content to access. And again, emulated content can also help push a Game Pass type of service or given out on PS+.

MS just gave out an OG Xbox game on GwG, I'm sure they will continue to do so. Meanwhile Sony is about to end PS3 free games because its useless on a PS4 even if it was notable content.

Old games can be monetized when you resell then either with same code or remastered/remade (much higher sales). Just giving free BC on PS5 won't grant much extra sales of SW (and probably a lot of second hand) though.

konnichiwa said:
DonFerrari said:

Sure it's impressive but still it isnt sold at 60 USD.

It is sold at 15-20 $ (gamestop as an example always raise prices of new bc games).

I don't really get trying to spin it in a negative way,  MS does the work and make it bc and Activision says yes you may make it BC Microsoft... and in the worst case Activision only made a million $ from it.  Gamers clearly wanted it and publishers make money with it.

Then I'm impressed.

I wasn't trying to spin in a negative way if that was the impression you had. I was trying to contextualize. Even more because the previous data we had from MS themselves on the usage of the BC didn't sound much impressive.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Mr Puggsly said:
Pemalite said:

I don't think we will see Sony bother with Emulation, the Playstation 4 has affirmed that it really isn't necessary for good sales... So unless they can monetize it in someway, I doubt it will ever happen.

Happen to be proven wrong of course.

Well why did Sony bother with PS2 emulation and hundreds of PS3 games on PS Now? Because old games can be monetized.

BC isnt just about selling hardware and not every exclusive is gonna sell hardware either. But all of it combined is more notable content to access. And again, emulated content can also help push a Game Pass type of service or given out on PS+.

MS just gave out an OG Xbox game on GwG, I'm sure they will continue to do so. Meanwhile Sony is about to end PS3 free games because its useless on a PS4 even if it was notable content.

Microsoft also gave out a game it has given out for free previously, this month.

Microsoft's Games with Gold is terrific, minus this months minor transgression... The fact they generally make all GWG games backwards compatible is what makes the service worthwhile. (Plus you actually own the Xbox Original/Xbox 360 games.)

It is certainly a shame that Sony hasn't taken note.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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Pemalite said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Well why did Sony bother with PS2 emulation and hundreds of PS3 games on PS Now? Because old games can be monetized.

BC isnt just about selling hardware and not every exclusive is gonna sell hardware either. But all of it combined is more notable content to access. And again, emulated content can also help push a Game Pass type of service or given out on PS+.

MS just gave out an OG Xbox game on GwG, I'm sure they will continue to do so. Meanwhile Sony is about to end PS3 free games because its useless on a PS4 even if it was notable content.

Microsoft also gave out a game it has given out for free previously, this month.

Microsoft's Games with Gold is terrific, minus this months minor transgression... The fact they generally make all GWG games backwards compatible is what makes the service worthwhile. (Plus you actually own the Xbox Original/Xbox 360 games.)

It is certainly a shame that Sony hasn't taken note.

Sony would need to see the revenue in it instead of just pleased fans. Perhaps if MS was more open with their numbers Sony would see the profit they could make by improving PS+ (they basically only remember that when PS+ gave good games they had 2M subs, when they had bad games but demand for online it grow to 40+M)



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Pemalite said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Well why did Sony bother with PS2 emulation and hundreds of PS3 games on PS Now? Because old games can be monetized.

BC isnt just about selling hardware and not every exclusive is gonna sell hardware either. But all of it combined is more notable content to access. And again, emulated content can also help push a Game Pass type of service or given out on PS+.

MS just gave out an OG Xbox game on GwG, I'm sure they will continue to do so. Meanwhile Sony is about to end PS3 free games because its useless on a PS4 even if it was notable content.

Microsoft also gave out a game it has given out for free previously, this month.

Microsoft's Games with Gold is terrific, minus this months minor transgression... The fact they generally make all GWG games backwards compatible is what makes the service worthwhile. (Plus you actually own the Xbox Original/Xbox 360 games.)

It is certainly a shame that Sony hasn't taken note.

I didnt realize that. I suppose you could argue many could have missed it years ago but it sucks for long time subscribers that grab everything. Very odd given there is 1st party content that would have been fine.

On PS3 I have to stay a subsciber to access my content I guess. It sucks but I guess it the same with X1. I wish they made a deal for retired platforms to be titles I now own.



Recently Completed
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for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Mr Puggsly said:
Pemalite said:

Microsoft also gave out a game it has given out for free previously, this month.

Microsoft's Games with Gold is terrific, minus this months minor transgression... The fact they generally make all GWG games backwards compatible is what makes the service worthwhile. (Plus you actually own the Xbox Original/Xbox 360 games.)

It is certainly a shame that Sony hasn't taken note.

I didnt realize that. I suppose you could argue many could have missed it years ago but it sucks for long time subscribers that grab everything. Very odd given there is 1st party content that would have been fine.

On PS3 I have to stay a subsciber to access my content I guess. It sucks but I guess it the same with X1. I wish they made a deal for retired platforms to be titles I now own.

PS+ games you got for free will be locked when your PS+ expire, but once you renew (so far no one have seem a limit on how long you can stay expired without losing the games, but seems like no limit exist) you can regain access - perhaps when PS3 server support is cut you'll have issues to download it on anything until they have BC on another platform and access for these unified.

On Xbox Games with Gold, all og and X360 were yours for life.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Kerotan said:
killeryoshis said:
You can make hardware completely Backwards compatible and not ask a single developer. When Nintendo made the Wii it was completely backward compatible with the Gamecube. You can play any Gamecube game on the Wii. Sony also did this with the PS2 as it was able to play PS1 games no problem. Developers can't legally stop the Xbox 4 and PS5 from being backward compatible like the Wii. However, Developers can pressure Sony and Microsoft to not do it by support means. Which means that they will treat the system with no backward compatibility with better support.

Honestly making a system backward compatible is a lot of work. You have to basically make two consoles in one. Which is why a lot of systems don't do it. Microsoft only has to ask developers to add a game to BC because digital rights are different from physical rights.

Thanks for the reply. I think ps5 will absolutely have BC because they don't want to give MS a selling point over them. Does digital BC work the same as physical? As in Sony don't need to ask devs to allow us to play our digital ps4 games on ps5? 

I know it took lots of effort in the past but if ps5 runs the same x86 architecture as the ps4 won't it be quite easy? 

You gave the awnser yourself, in the past BC was a hassle but with x86 becoming a standard it should be much easier to make Ps5 and Xbox Two "natively" backwards compatible.

As for your previous post, I believe MS has to ask publishers the permission to release thier BC games because technically those game are emulated and this could cause come legal issues. If you are playing an emulated game you aren't just running the original code but your also running the additional emulation code plus maybe some patch or fix to make it run properly. I believe this leaglly colud be seen as an alteration of intellectual property. It would also expalin why BC on Wii and PS2 did not need permissions, since in those cases you were playing just the original code.



freebs2 said:
Kerotan said:

Thanks for the reply. I think ps5 will absolutely have BC because they don't want to give MS a selling point over them. Does digital BC work the same as physical? As in Sony don't need to ask devs to allow us to play our digital ps4 games on ps5? 

I know it took lots of effort in the past but if ps5 runs the same x86 architecture as the ps4 won't it be quite easy? 

You gave the awnser yourself, in the past BC was a hassle but with x86 becoming a standard it should be much easier to make Ps5 and Xbox Two "natively" backwards compatible.

As for your previous post, I believe MS has to ask publishers the permission to release thier BC games because technically those game are emulated and this could cause come legal issues. If you are playing an emulated game you aren't just running the original code but your also running the additional emulation code plus maybe some patch or fix to make it run properly. I believe this leaglly colud be seen as an alteration of intellectual property. It would also expalin why BC on Wii and PS2 did not need permissions, since in those cases you were playing just the original code.

PS3 done SW BC on one of the versions both for PS1 and PS2 games.

The biggest problem imho is that on X1 you need to download the game on the XBL, so they need permission to make it available.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."