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Forums - Politics Discussion - Sam Harris Drops Patreon - Other Creators Follow

Jumpin said:
collint0101 said:

Conservatives are the ones that cry the loudest. Either way everyone deserves the right to speak but no one has the right to a megaphone

Conservatives are ridiculous whiners. Like saying “Happy holidays” instead of “Merry Christmas” is the equivalent to warfare against Christmas. If you don’t use the correct words to wish a conservative a good day, you’re then basically seen as a terrorist.

Extremes on both sides can be extreme whiners so its very one sided and tribalistic to only put the conservatives stamp on it.



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SpokenTruth said:
o_O.Q said:

yes of course because i don't ideologically resemble what you expect of black people 

which is of course fucking racist as fuck but you'll just ignore that of course

Actually, no.  I'll try to track down the thread but you said you were white in one of them.

o_O.Q said:

 

people in this thread have used the n word, are they racists? spokentruth couldn't answer this question of course

I did answer this.  Several times.  I said it's all about the context.  I'll repost it below:

"Uh, no.  Because black people using the word has a different meaning, purpose and function.  Again, context is crucial. 

Words take on different meaning depending on who says them.  In England, chips means the same thing as fries to an American yet chips to them mean crisps to the English.  This is imply meant to be an example of context of speaker. Here, it's a geographical divide that denotes context.  For the N-word, it's a racial divide that denotes context.

You're almost there.  The race of the user is part of the context.  It takes on a completely different connotation depending on who uses it and how.  See what I wrote above.

That said, of course it can used by white people under a set of given circumstances.  For social research, historical re-enactments, art,....again, context is crucial.  I keep saying that. "

thismeintiel said:

Oh, I get it. He can't be black because he doesn't fit your narrow view of how black people should feel and think.

Not racist at all. /s

See above.  He alluded to being white in a prior thread.  I'm trying to find it.

"Actually, no."

lol its just amazing to me how you are the most racist person i've interacted with for a while but you're either too ignorant or dishonest to see your bullshit for what it is

 

'Words take on different meaning depending on who says them."

so race determines what words mean? and this isn't racism?

how can you ever hope to end racism when every single argument you make is predicated on division along race? are you serious?

what really matters to anyone actually thinking critically is INTENT

 

"In England, chips means the same thing as fries to an American yet chips to them mean crisps to the English"

a stupid argument, again i'll repeat white people in this thread have used the n word, are they automatically racists who think black people are inferior or some shit like that as a result? what is your answer?

 

"again, context is crucial."

the context that matters is whether the user is hostile towards black people or not because otherwise just about everyone is a racist since, for example, many people recite the n word to rap lyrics for example

 

but one thing i must say is that its truly ironic and amusing to me that you, fighting for social justice or some shit like that are trying to justify racism to a black man while claiming ( even though you don't know a single thing about me ) that i'm not black because i don't behave like black people are supposed to



o_O.Q said:
SpokenTruth said:

Actually, no.  I'll try to track down the thread but you said you were white in one of them.

I did answer this.  Several times.  I said it's all about the context.  I'll repost it below:

"Uh, no.  Because black people using the word has a different meaning, purpose and function.  Again, context is crucial. 

Words take on different meaning depending on who says them.  In England, chips means the same thing as fries to an American yet chips to them mean crisps to the English.  This is imply meant to be an example of context of speaker. Here, it's a geographical divide that denotes context.  For the N-word, it's a racial divide that denotes context.

You're almost there.  The race of the user is part of the context.  It takes on a completely different connotation depending on who uses it and how.  See what I wrote above.

That said, of course it can used by white people under a set of given circumstances.  For social research, historical re-enactments, art,....again, context is crucial.  I keep saying that. "

See above.  He alluded to being white in a prior thread.  I'm trying to find it.

"Actually, no."

lol its just amazing to me how you are the most racist person i've interacted with for a while but you're either too ignorant or dishonest to see your bullshit for what it is

 

'Words take on different meaning depending on who says them."

so race determines what words mean? and this isn't racism?

how can you ever hope to end racism when every single argument you make is predicated on division along race? are you serious?

what really matters to anyone actually thinking critically is INTENT

 

"In England, chips means the same thing as fries to an American yet chips to them mean crisps to the English"

a stupid argument, again i'll repeat white people in this thread have used the n word, are they automatically racists who think black people are inferior or some shit like that as a result? what is your answer?

 

"again, context is crucial."

the context that matters is whether the user is hostile towards black people or not because otherwise just about everyone is a racist since, for example, many people recite the n word to rap lyrics for example

 

but one thing i must say is that its truly ironic and amusing to me that you, fighting for social justice or some shit like that are trying to justify racism to a black man while claiming ( even though you don't know a single thing about me ) that i'm not black because i don't behave like black people are supposed to

I agree with you on this,my whole life has been affected by people being racist so it should be clear im against it but here they seem to attach a skincolour to racism or hold different meanings for racism depending on skincolour and sadly that is the thing they should be fighting against cause thinking like that IS racism.

Its almost like people want to pull others towards the side of extremism and it is overlooked because left racism is more accepted ?



SpokenTruth said:
Immersiveunreality said:

I agree with you on this,my whole life has been affected by people being racist so it should be clear im against it but here they seem to attach a skincolour to racism or hold different meanings for racism depending on skincolour and sadly that is the thing they should be fighting against cause thinking like that IS racism.

Its almost like people want to pull others towards the side of extremism and it is overlooked because left racism is more accepted ?

Both of you have a misunderstanding of what racism is.  Saying blacks can use the N-word but whites can't isn't racism.  Does that really need to be explained?  Seriously?

______________

rac·ism
/ˈrāˌsizəm/
noun
Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
"a program to combat racism"
synonyms: racial discrimination, racialism, racial prejudice, xenophobia, chauvinism, bigotry, casteism
"Aborigines are the main victims of racism in Australia"
The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
_______________

But you use racial discrimination considering the N word because you think the word is racist in itself if it is spoken by a white person  that knows it meaning with different political views than you, you speak of intend and context yet you do not need it whenever a white person speaks the doomed word so yeah you discriminate a whole skincolour in this case.



SpokenTruth said:
Immersiveunreality said:

But you use racial discrimination considering the N word because you think the word is racist in itself if it is spoken by a white person  that knows it meaning with different political views than you, you speak of intend and context yet you do not need it whenever a white person speaks the doomed word so yeah you discriminate a whole skincolour in this case.

Looks like I'll have to post these for the 4th time.  Do you guys even read?

"That said, of course it can used by white people under a set of given circumstances.  For social research, historical re-enactments, art,....again, context is crucial.  I keep saying that. "

"Who he called a N-word is irrelevant. It's the underlying connotation of the word itself. The word is a term of disparagement of the black race. Period. When used by the race that brought it into the English lexicon knowing and being fully aware of its function, history, relevancy, context...you then are ignoring the pejorative nature of the word and it is that willful ignorance that does not absolve you from being called racist.

To sum up....you know it's wrong and you do it anyway = racist."

Oh yes we read and we fully disagree that knowing the meaning of the word makes you racist even when its use is not intented to be racist,to you the spoken intend is tied to the definition of the word in a very extreme way and no not everyone thinks so black or white.

You can call people dumb or rude for the way that sargon was using it but not racist,and you can react to this with trying to be condescending for a 5th time but it does not make you right and do not expect us to follow this same onesided track you are on .

Last edited by Immersiveunreality - on 26 December 2018

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SpokenTruth said:
o_O.Q said:

"Actually, no."

lol its just amazing to me how you are the most racist person i've interacted with for a while but you're either too ignorant or dishonest to see your bullshit for what it is

 

'Words take on different meaning depending on who says them."

so race determines what words mean? and this isn't racism?

how can you ever hope to end racism when every single argument you make is predicated on division along race? are you serious?

what really matters to anyone actually thinking critically is INTENT

 

"In England, chips means the same thing as fries to an American yet chips to them mean crisps to the English"

a stupid argument, again i'll repeat white people in this thread have used the n word, are they automatically racists who think black people are inferior or some shit like that as a result? what is your answer?

 

"again, context is crucial."

the context that matters is whether the user is hostile towards black people or not because otherwise just about everyone is a racist since, for example, many people recite the n word to rap lyrics for example

 

but one thing i must say is that its truly ironic and amusing to me that you, fighting for social justice or some shit like that are trying to justify racism to a black man while claiming ( even though you don't know a single thing about me ) that i'm not black because i don't behave like black people are supposed to

You didn't read anything I wrote.  You just blabbed on while ignoring parts I'm going to have to repost all over again.

"again i'll repeat white people in this thread have used the n word, are they automatically racists who think black people are inferior or some shit like that as a result? what is your answer?"

Allow  me to repost my answer that I've stated twice for you before.  This is the 3rd time.  Don't ignore it again. 

"That said, of course it can used by white people under a set of given circumstances.  For social research, historical re-enactments, art,....again, context is crucial.  I keep saying that. "

while claiming ( even though you don't know a single thing about me ) that i'm not black because i don't behave like black people are supposed to

I just told you and another poster that my presumption of your race is not based on your behavior but a mention from you in a previous thread.  The fact you have ignored this twice suggests you are intentionally leaving out aspects of a post so you can mischaracterize their posts to befit your argument. 

I'd ask for a pic but....

what really matters to anyone actually thinking critically is INTENT

the context that matters is whether the user is hostile towards black people or not because otherwise just about everyone is a racist since, for example, many people recite the n word to rap lyrics for example

So a white guy can call black people the N-word so long as he's friendly about it and means no ill intent?  Good luck with that.  And regarding rap lyrics.  Everyone one of them will tell you don't say it when the word comes up. Go look up what happened at a Kendrick Lamar concert.

But, again....geez....again, I have to repost something because you keep ignoring things.

"Who he called a N-word is irrelevant. It's the underlying connotation of the word itself. The word is a term of disparagement of the black race. Period. When used by the race that brought it into the English lexicon knowing and being fully aware of its function, history, relevancy, context...you then are ignoring the pejorative nature of the word and it is that willful ignorance that does not absolve you from being called racist.

To sum up....you know it's wrong and you do it anyway = racist."

If you can not grasp this, we have nothing further to discuss.

"For social research, historical re-enactments, art,....again, context is crucial."

ok so the word itself is not a justification for calling someone a racist, but its the word and an indication of hostility towards another race

can you detail for me how exactly sargon indicated hostility towards black people?

 

"but a mention from you in a previous thread. "

which is bullshit you pulled out of your ass to justify your racism of course, if i'm wrong produce the claim i've made stating i'm white

 

"The fact you have ignored this twice suggests you are intentionally leaving out aspects of a post so you can mischaracterize their posts to befit your argument.  "

i ignored it because its bullshit, again if i'm wrong produce the post with me saying so

 

"So a white guy can call black people the N-word"

sargon did not do this and sargon is the topic of discussion correct? so why are you creating this strawman?

again if i'm wrong indicate how his comments were directed towards a black person

 

" And regarding rap lyrics.  Everyone one of them will tell you don't say it when the word comes up."

again bullshit 

 

"Who he called a N-word is irrelevant. It's the underlying connotation of the word itself"

wow so you're basically talking in circles?

did you not just post this?

"That said, of course it can used by white people under a set of given circumstances.  For social research, historical re-enactments, art,....again, context is crucial."

 

"If you can not grasp this"

i can't grasp it because you're contradicting yourself lol

this is what the religion of the left does to your perception of reality



Immersiveunreality said:
o_O.Q said:

"Actually, no."

lol its just amazing to me how you are the most racist person i've interacted with for a while but you're either too ignorant or dishonest to see your bullshit for what it is

 

'Words take on different meaning depending on who says them."

so race determines what words mean? and this isn't racism?

how can you ever hope to end racism when every single argument you make is predicated on division along race? are you serious?

what really matters to anyone actually thinking critically is INTENT

 

"In England, chips means the same thing as fries to an American yet chips to them mean crisps to the English"

a stupid argument, again i'll repeat white people in this thread have used the n word, are they automatically racists who think black people are inferior or some shit like that as a result? what is your answer?

 

"again, context is crucial."

the context that matters is whether the user is hostile towards black people or not because otherwise just about everyone is a racist since, for example, many people recite the n word to rap lyrics for example

 

but one thing i must say is that its truly ironic and amusing to me that you, fighting for social justice or some shit like that are trying to justify racism to a black man while claiming ( even though you don't know a single thing about me ) that i'm not black because i don't behave like black people are supposed to

I agree with you on this,my whole life has been affected by people being racist so it should be clear im against it but here they seem to attach a skincolour to racism or hold different meanings for racism depending on skincolour and sadly that is the thing they should be fighting against cause thinking like that IS racism.

Its almost like people want to pull others towards the side of extremism and it is overlooked because left racism is more accepted ?

of course its racism and what should be obvious is that you cannot end racism by perpetuating racism

what people like that do not understand is that all these double standards result in is the weakening of the group they claim to be trying to protect ( by infantilising them ) and they encourage the group they are discriminating against to be more contemptuous of the protected group for some people

i'm seeing many white people stating that the increasing discrimination they are experiencing is making them feel like they need to be less open to other races and more protective of their own... that's not the case with all obviously but it is happening

i think the goal going forwards should be that we don't think its ok to discriminate against minorities but in addition to that we don't discriminate against majorities simply because they as a group are perceived as being more powerful

if we want to end discrimination then it has to be uniform across a community, but beyond that it depends on what type of discrimination you are referring to, should we look at poor people and try to give them more aid than rich people? well yes obviously and that is a form of discrimination, so some discrimination is warranted obviously

but when you say that someone simply stating a word is a racist regardless of their intent, that's just fucking stupid, you should obviously try to ascertain whether the person had a hostile intent before hand instead of just jumping to the conclusion based on only a word



SpokenTruth said:
o_O.Q said:

"For social research, historical re-enactments, art,....again, context is crucial."

ok so the word itself is not a justification for calling someone a racist, but its the word and an indication of hostility towards another race

can you detail for me how exactly sargon indicated hostility towards black people?

Again?  OK.  Reposting to show you....again.  because I've already said this exact thing to you.

"And it's made worse because he is basically saying white people are superior to black people. He said a white person of poor action/thought is a white N-word. He was calling them white-black people. As though being black is a bad thing to be."

Do you understand this now?  Do I need to break this down even further?

"So a white guy can call black people the N-word"

sargon did not do this and sargon is the topic of discussion correct? so why are you creating this strawman?

again if i'm wrong indicate how his comments were directed towards a black person

That's not the context from which I was answering you.  You said, "the context that matters is whether the user is hostile towards black people or not because otherwise just about everyone is a racist since, for example, many people recite the n word to rap lyrics for example."  Don't change your context when responding to others.

i ignored it because its bullshit, again if i'm wrong produce the post with me saying so

Patience.  You have 5,000 posts to track through.  I'm willing to admit my recollection may be for a different poster.  But again, you can quickly prove me wrong with a pic while I keep searching.

" And regarding rap lyrics.  Everyone one of them will tell you don't say it when the word comes up."

again bullshit

You can prove they are OK with white people saying the N-word when rapping their lyrics?  Did you even look into the Kendrick Lamar concert incident I told you about?

Do you see white rappers using it?  Ever wonder why?

"Who he called a N-word is irrelevant. It's the underlying connotation of the word itself"

wow so you're basically talking in circles?

did you not just post this?

"That said, of course it can used by white people under a set of given circumstances.  For social research, historical re-enactments, art,....again, context is crucial."

How precisely do those contradict each other? 

Basically, you're not grasping it.  And we have nothing further to discuss.

Immersiveunreality said:

Oh yes we read and we fully disagree that knowing the meaning of the word makes you racist even when its use is not intented to be racist,to you the spoken intend is tied to the definition of the word in a very extreme way and no not everyone thinks so black or white.

I didn't just say knowing the meaning, I said knowing it's wrong and using it anyway.  See that last line again.  And I'm sorry but the pejorative and derogatory nature of the word is not up for you to determine.  You don't get to decide whether using it wrong or not.  That's already been decided long ago.  But go ahead and use it with wild abandon and let me know how that goes for you.

"And it's made worse because he is basically saying white people are superior to black people. He said a white person of poor action/thought is a white N-word. "

he said a white person is a white person, why are you bringing black people into it?

give me the exact phrase that is targeting a black person

 

"He was calling them white-black people."

this does not make sense, i think to any person not fishing for something to virtue signal with its obvious he's referring to white people who are behaving in his opinion in a negative way, furthermore he clarified his intent but of course that doesn't matter since as i've said this isn't about him or even black people, its about fishing for something to virtue signal with right?

 

"That's not the context from which I was answering you"

uh wtf? the context is that i'm claiming that sargon did not target a black person AND he did not indicate hostility towards black people, how did my context change?

 

"But again, you can quickly prove me wrong with a pic while I keep searching."

i suppose i could but its funny to me to watch you try to justify your racist bullshit

btw how would you ascertain whether i'm a black man or not from my picture?

 

"Do you see white rappers using it?"

yes constantly

here is one example

https://www.eminem.com/music/marshall-mathers-lp/bitch-please-ii

and you are aware that white people go to black rapper concerts right? i mean do you exist in this reality?

 

"How precisely do those contradict each other? "

at one point you say that the word itself is the problem when used by white people

""Who he called a N-word is irrelevant. It's the underlying connotation of the word itself"" 

then at another point you state that context can absolve white people of racism

""That said, of course it can used by white people under a set of given circumstances.  For social research, historical re-enactments, art,....again, context is crucial.""

if context is an important part then you cannot back the previous assertion since obviously in the latter part you are claiming that the connotation of the word becomes irrelevant depending on the context



SpokenTruth said






I didn't just say knowing the meaning, I said knowing it's wrong and using it anyway.  See that last line again.  And I'm sorry but the pejorative and derogatory nature of the word is not up for you to determine.  You don't get to decide whether using it wrong or not.  That's already been decided long ago.  But go ahead and use it with wild abandon and let me know how that goes for you.

No its not up to me to determine but i aint for people to start using that word more and its also not up to you to determine it is racist, words can be used for different things even when something like a dictonary exists that you really implement badly for this and depending on sentence and further context words can be manipulated.

I would never tell you that i like people using that word but that counts for everyone and i do my research to determine whether its use was racist and not base it solely from definitions out of the dictonary cause thats a flawed and incomplete way to look at it.

" But go ahead and use it with wild abandon and let me know how that goes for you"

You really see a speck of prove in that a slur cannot be used freely among the masses,you make a connection to racism because of that?

I am a polite person so i do not use it like you suggest me doing but even if i did it should not make me racist.

 

Edit: Also outside of the mildly negative back and forth, have a great Christmas!

Last edited by Immersiveunreality - on 28 December 2018

SpokenTruth said




Edit: Also outside of the mildly negative back and forth, have a great Christmas!

To you and yours, I hope it was merry as well

For you the word was born our of racism and i agree on that but it has branched into different meanings and uses since then so for me that pulls away the racism partly but we will most likely never agree on this matter so lets agree to disagree :p

Your intend is good as most people on here that i disagree with on this topic so its not such a tremendous blockade.