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Bofferbrauer2 said:

Johnson has to allow a vote here, not the SNP. And Johnson has been adamant not to allow a vote on scottish independence. He's too afraid of loosing Scotland.

Also, I find it funny how you point at a poll while you argued in the past that the polls were false and didn't show the will of the people. If that was true for the brexit polls, then the same is true for the scottish independence polls, too.

The poll on the day of Brexit was 52-48 in favour of staying. Recent polls have shown it at 53 in favour of staying if there was a 2nd ref but the majority of the population is against a 2nd ref. Polls have barely moved in regards to Brexit and Scottish independence.

One thing that the polls also reflect is the fact that the way forward had not been clear. There hasn't been a poll since the election - but the ones since Johnson came to power show that the resistance against independence is waning even in the polls, something that your link also acknowledges to a degree. The difference between staying and leaving had been over 10% since May came into power, but after Johnson did so, it shrank down closer to 5%. And I'm very sure than when the Brexit finally actually happens, support will soar way above the 50%.

The poll I posted shows a 12pt lead with Boris in power.



Nov 2016 - NES outsells PS1 (JP)

Don't Play Stationary 4 ever. Switch!

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Pyro as Bill said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

Johnson has to allow a vote here, not the SNP. And Johnson has been adamant not to allow a vote on scottish independence. He's too afraid of loosing Scotland.

Also, I find it funny how you point at a poll while you argued in the past that the polls were false and didn't show the will of the people. If that was true for the brexit polls, then the same is true for the scottish independence polls, too.

The poll on the day of Brexit was 52-48 in favour of staying. Recent polls have shown it at 53 in favour of staying if there was a 2nd ref but the majority of the population is against a 2nd ref. Polls have barely moved in regards to Brexit and Scottish independence.

One thing that the polls also reflect is the fact that the way forward had not been clear. There hasn't been a poll since the election - but the ones since Johnson came to power show that the resistance against independence is waning even in the polls, something that your link also acknowledges to a degree. The difference between staying and leaving had been over 10% since May came into power, but after Johnson did so, it shrank down closer to 5%. And I'm very sure than when the Brexit finally actually happens, support will soar way above the 50%.

The poll I posted shows a 12pt lead with Boris in power.

Yes, I know, though the real result was 38-48 if we don't exclude the undecided: https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/9f359xvq6w/TheTimes_191206_Scotland_Results_IndependenceW.pdf

Also, it's a complete outliner right now, most polls are getting close to break even now:

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/politics/scottish-politics/1039926/exclusive-courier-poll-showing-rise-in-support-for-independence-gives-election-day-boost-to-snp/ 1% difference

https://www.drg.global/wp-content/uploads/W1781w24-Tables-for-publication-061219.pdf 6% difference, outside of the one you posted the one with the biggest win for stay in the UK in the last 2 months

https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2019-11/ipsos-mori-scotland-election-2019-pm-tables.pdf break even

https://www.drg.global/wp-content/uploads/W1781w23-Tables-for-publication-221119.pdf 2% difference

https://www.drg.global/wp-content/uploads/Sunday-Times-Tables-for-publication-111019.pdf 1% difference

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_on_Scottish_independence a little overview

And that's all before the general election. With the conservatives gaining the absolute majority and can now Brexit for sure, I'm very sure the independence movement will gain even more traction.



Bofferbrauer2 said:
Pyro as Bill said:

Yes, I know, though the real result was 38-48 if we don't exclude the undecided: https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/9f359xvq6w/TheTimes_191206_Scotland_Results_IndependenceW.pdf

Also, it's a complete outliner right now, most polls are getting close to break even now:

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/politics/scottish-politics/1039926/exclusive-courier-poll-showing-rise-in-support-for-independence-gives-election-day-boost-to-snp/ 1% difference

https://www.drg.global/wp-content/uploads/W1781w24-Tables-for-publication-061219.pdf 6% difference, outside of the one you posted the one with the biggest win for stay in the UK in the last 2 months

https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2019-11/ipsos-mori-scotland-election-2019-pm-tables.pdf break even

https://www.drg.global/wp-content/uploads/W1781w23-Tables-for-publication-221119.pdf 2% difference

https://www.drg.global/wp-content/uploads/Sunday-Times-Tables-for-publication-111019.pdf 1% difference

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_on_Scottish_independence a little overview

And that's all before the general election. With the conservatives gaining the absolute majority and can now Brexit for sure, I'm very sure the independence movement will gain even more traction.

'Do you think Scotland should be independent? isn't the same as 'How will you vote in a referendum?'. Everybody learned this lesson in the first indy ref.
The last poll that asked people how they actually intend to vote had 'Remain' with a 17pt lead.
Given your past flawed analysis of UK politics, I'd happily bet you that Scotland will remain in the UK after the next referendum (it'll be in the next parliament if the SNP keep their current support).
"The Tories rose to high 30's after Johnson got elected but are coming crashing down since he humiliated himself in Luxembourg, his failed Prorogation, not being able to win any votes in Parliament..."
"And a new election will just make it worse and solve nothing, as both the big parties loose a lot while the smaller ones win quite a bit, making the balance of powers even more even than they were before."

Honestly, i'm tired of arguing with echo-chamber folk. I don't get why the losing side would rather invent nonsense and play it back to each other instead of engaging with the other side and working out how to improve/compromise/win.

To win an election/referendum, you have to win votes from the opposing team. Playing to your own crowd doesn't work.

Trump is gonna win the next election. Boris will win the next election too and the Left will continue to freak out and act surprised when they lose.

I'm starting to think the Koch Brothers or whoever the rightwing bad guys are these days are secretly funding the Left knowing that any airtime they get results in votes for the opposing team.



Nov 2016 - NES outsells PS1 (JP)

Don't Play Stationary 4 ever. Switch!

Pyro as Bill said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

Yes, I know, though the real result was 38-48 if we don't exclude the undecided: https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/9f359xvq6w/TheTimes_191206_Scotland_Results_IndependenceW.pdf

Also, it's a complete outliner right now, most polls are getting close to break even now:

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/politics/scottish-politics/1039926/exclusive-courier-poll-showing-rise-in-support-for-independence-gives-election-day-boost-to-snp/ 1% difference

https://www.drg.global/wp-content/uploads/W1781w24-Tables-for-publication-061219.pdf 6% difference, outside of the one you posted the one with the biggest win for stay in the UK in the last 2 months

https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2019-11/ipsos-mori-scotland-election-2019-pm-tables.pdf break even

https://www.drg.global/wp-content/uploads/W1781w23-Tables-for-publication-221119.pdf 2% difference

https://www.drg.global/wp-content/uploads/Sunday-Times-Tables-for-publication-111019.pdf 1% difference

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_on_Scottish_independence a little overview

And that's all before the general election. With the conservatives gaining the absolute majority and can now Brexit for sure, I'm very sure the independence movement will gain even more traction.

'Do you think Scotland should be independent? isn't the same as 'How will you vote in a referendum?'. Everybody learned this lesson in the first indy ref.
The last poll that asked people how they actually intend to vote had 'Remain' with a 17pt lead.
Given your past flawed analysis of UK politics, I'd happily bet you that Scotland will remain in the UK after the next referendum (it'll be in the next parliament if the SNP keep their current support).
"The Tories rose to high 30's after Johnson got elected but are coming crashing down since he humiliated himself in Luxembourg, his failed Prorogation, not being able to win any votes in Parliament..."
"And a new election will just make it worse and solve nothing, as both the big parties loose a lot while the smaller ones win quite a bit, making the balance of powers even more even than they were before."

Honestly, i'm tired of arguing with echo-chamber folk. I don't get why the losing side would rather invent nonsense and play it back to each other instead of engaging with the other side and working out how to improve/compromise/win.

To win an election/referendum, you have to win votes from the opposing team. Playing to your own crowd doesn't work.

Trump is gonna win the next election. Boris will win the next election too and the Left will continue to freak out and act surprised when they lose.

I'm starting to think the Koch Brothers or whoever the rightwing bad guys are these days are secretly funding the Left knowing that any airtime they get results in votes for the opposing team.

WTF??? I backed up everything I said here, linked proofs for everything. The problem is more that you dismissed everything, as if you were saying "I reject your reality and substitute my own!" about anything that proves the wrongs from Trump, the leave campaign, etc...

I do expect Boris to win the next election, too, unless he fucks up royally or Labour reinvents itself. Trump, on the other hand, is far from safe.





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Farewell, Nigel! You will be remembered. 



LurkerJ said:

Farewell, Nigel! You will be remembered. 

He did this well... and its okay to go out like this imo.
However often he was a right prick.

"I know you ll miss us"  (which was actually said by alot from the EU side of things, they would miss the UK)

However the truth of the matter is, like Nigel admitted, they never saw themselves as citizens of the EU, or apart of the collective.
The result was often the UK would be like a little kid or trouble maker in class.

Honestly I think alot are just as happy their gone.
Its hard to work with someone thats almost actively trying to trip you, everytime you want to get something done.

Watch this:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37iHSwA1SwE

^ dark humor, very true.



It's finally happening in about 30 hours from now :)



Radek said:
It's finally happening in about 30 hours from now :)

Its already happend right? now they just have 11months, until the effects of leaveing show.
(they have a 11month grace periode, where rules remain the same as always, even after leaveing, so they can get their ducks in row)

Come 2021, we ll see if theres actually any impact economically ect from leaveing.
UK also got alot of funds from the EU for research + Study + Education... I doubt those will carry over.



JRPGfan said:
Radek said:
It's finally happening in about 30 hours from now :)

Its already happend right? now they just have 11months, until the effects of leaveing show.
(they have a 11month grace periode, where rules remain the same as always, even after leaveing, so they can get their ducks in row)

Come 2021, we ll see if theres actually any impact economically ect from leaveing.
UK also got alot of funds from the EU for research + Study + Education... I doubt those will carry over.

No, it happens in 12 hours 35 minutes from now. They are leaving on 11 PM their time.