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Brexit

RIP another 6 months of wasted time, I'm confident the British MPs will end up in the same situation they were in the past few weeks, they are fully aware of the immense stain for their CV being an MP that allowed Brexit to happen will be so they aren't able to make any deal. They just gifted populist partiess across Europe another 6 months of time to blame the EU for pointless arguments



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EU again decided to be kind to them, so they dont crash out totally unprepaired for anything, and gave them another 6months to figour things out.
Mean while Trump is tweeting "EU is treating the UK so badly ect ect"

I honestly think at this point EU should have not given them another extension, and just said "goodbye" to them.



Number of days to reach 50M from 40M : 198 days
Number of days to reach 60M from 50M : 187 days
Number of days to reach 70M from 60M : 175 days
Number of days to reach 80M from 70M : 227 days

Necro-bump this 2020: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=229249

Biggerboat1 said:
RolStoppable said:

My favorite part about the Brexit is the stance that it would be anti-democratic to let the people of the UK vote again three years later.

Meanwhile, it's the norm in democracies that the people get to vote for new governments every 4-6 years depending on the country. But for the Brexit it's apparently a betrayal of democratic principles to ask the people if their opinions have changed since three years ago.

In addition to a 2nd referendum taking into account changed opinions, I think it's also important as it allows us to weigh up remain against an actual, tangible deal.

The first referendum was a flawed in my opinion as it gave the option of 1 remain option against the entire spectrum of Brexit options, and we now know that people's ideas of what Brexit should actually be vary widely.

It's almost like getting a room of people to vote for what carry-out they want, with the question being structured as - 'ok guys, who wants Thai & who doesn't want Thai? If Thai loses then we'll vote on what non-Thai option we want' Thai gets 48% and loses, but when it's time to decide on what actual cuisine people want they can't agree and Chinese / Italian / Indian all fail to pull more than the 48% Thai lost by...

But it's all political manoeuvring now - I don't think any decision-makers actually care what's fair anymore - it's a race to the bottom...

I'm Scottish so I fear if Brexit does indeed go ahead it'll all but guarantee an independent Scotland (if Westminster approves another ref). The concern I have with this is the same one I have with leaving the EU - it'll make trade with our biggest market more difficult... Scotland exports most of it's good to the rest of the UK, just as the UK exports most of it's good to the EU...

It's all a complete cluster-fuck... And to think, that as a Scot, I may be looking at 1 or possibly 2 more referendums... I'm exhausted just thinking about it!

The really horrible mistake you Scots committed has been to trust again the English (as if they hadn't f*kd you off enough times in the past) just when you had your most important choice to take in the last seven centuries.



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JRPGfan said:
EU again decided to be kind to them, so they dont crash out totally unprepaired for anything, and gave them another 6months to figour things out.
Mean while Trump is tweeting "EU is treating the UK so badly ect ect"

I honestly think at this point EU should have not given them another extension, and just said "goodbye" to them.

Well, at least Macron could limit it to October.

And it looks like Nicola Sturgeon will try to use that extension to get an independence vote done in the meantime. At this rate they could be out of the UK and back in the EU before the rest of the UK ever leaves.

The Local elections on May 4 will be interesting to see. Both for the development of the parties in England, but also the balance of power in Northern Ireland (Wales and Scotland do not vote that day). I just fear that May might be the end of... May, the Force will most probably not be with her that day.



vivster said:
fatslob-:O said:

...all current polls show that the majority now wants to stay.

So, the same as every poll (telephone) in the week leading up to the referendum then? The 'poll of polls' never once had Leave winning even when adjusted for those likely to vote.

The most recent poll I saw had it 55-45 in favour of Remain. That's the same as the Populus poll done the day before the referendum.

As long as our treasonous politicians don't remove the World Trade Brexit option from the next referendum, Leave will win again.



Nov 2016 - NES outsells PS1 (JP)

Don't Play Stationary 4 ever. Switch!

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vivster said:

The thing you're talking about is the exact reason why a direct Democracy is an inherently bad thing. I mean Democracy to begin with is just a flimsy compromise but a direct democracy is just a pure clusterfuck. That's why we have a representative democracy so that elected officials have a bit of wiggle room against moronic voters. And apparently the voters are moronic because all current polls show that the majority now wants to stay. That's why you don't let the masses decide policy directly. The vote should've never been anything binding to begin with, let alone using simple majority.

The fighting we have currently going on between the elected officials is exactly working as designed. It's not a great system but it's better than a direct democracy.

If you're own nation isn't prepared to 'share' power in a real democracy whether that's either direct or representative then do your own nation a favour and don't proclaim it to be democratic since otherwise they're no better than regimes like North Korea which hosts their own 'elections'. It's also these very same representatives that decided THEMSELVES to sanction the referendum itself in the first place that these so called 'moronic' voters participated in ... 

Polls do NOT serve as a justification for reneging an actual democratic mandate ... 

@Bold Oh really ? So you're arguing that the Scottish independence vote SHOULDN'T have been binding with a simple majority as well ? In the future, if Northern Ireland ever decides to hold a vote on reunification and it came out positive does that mean that you would insist on reneging that result as well along with breaking the provision within the Good Friday Agreement as well ?! 



Pyro as Bill said:
vivster said:

...all current polls show that the majority now wants to stay.

So, the same as every poll (telephone) in the week leading up to the referendum then? The 'poll of polls' never once had Leave winning even when adjusted for those likely to vote.

The most recent poll I saw had it 55-45 in favour of Remain. That's the same as the Populus poll done the day before the referendum.

As long as our treasonous politicians don't remove the World Trade Brexit option from the next referendum, Leave will win again.

That wasn't nearly as clear cut as you make it out to be. In fact, in most polls leading up to the vote, leave was going to win and not, like you state, never did so:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum#2016

As you can see, there's more on the leave side than on the remain side. The last week was dominated from the murder of a remain MP (I think it was an MP, correct if I'm wrong on it), which let it seem to swing back at the last second on the polls.

Now however?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum#Remain/Leave

Leave is getting soundly beaten and the last poll where leave was in front is from March 2018, so over a year old though they managed to get equal shares at times since. It's even worse if you ask a 3-way question between remaining, leaving with a deal, or leaving without a deal:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum#Three-option_referendum

remain wins every single vote there by a landslide. Especially young voters (18-24 years old) votes only up to 19% for leave, less than even those without an opinion. I do wish they had continued the question after January though, as leaving with and without a deal, taken together, had a major surge at the end, it would be interesting if that all continued or got killed with Mays deal.

fatslob-:O said:
vivster said:

The thing you're talking about is the exact reason why a direct Democracy is an inherently bad thing. I mean Democracy to begin with is just a flimsy compromise but a direct democracy is just a pure clusterfuck. That's why we have a representative democracy so that elected officials have a bit of wiggle room against moronic voters. And apparently the voters are moronic because all current polls show that the majority now wants to stay. That's why you don't let the masses decide policy directly. The vote should've never been anything binding to begin with, let alone using simple majority.

The fighting we have currently going on between the elected officials is exactly working as designed. It's not a great system but it's better than a direct democracy.

If you're own nation isn't prepared to 'share' power in a real democracy whether that's either direct or representative then do your own nation a favour and don't proclaim it to be democratic since otherwise they're no better than regimes like North Korea which hosts their own 'elections'. It's also these very same representatives that decided THEMSELVES to sanction the referendum itself in the first place that these so called 'moronic' voters participated in ... 

Polls do NOT serve as a justification for reneging an actual democratic mandate ... 

@Bold Oh really ? So you're arguing that the Scottish independence vote SHOULDN'T have been binding with a simple majority as well ? In the future, if Northern Ireland ever decides to hold a vote on reunification and it came out positive does that mean that you would insist on reneging that result as well along with breaking the provision within the Good Friday Agreement as well ?! 

I actually believe that such a vote should have an absolute majority (=2/3 majority). It is a big vote with very far-reaching consequences after all.

However, since Brexit was binding with a simple majority, I don't see why Scottish and Northern Ireland independence votes should be treated differently. Since Brexit got through with a simple majority, so should they now.

Last edited by Bofferbrauer2 - on 12 April 2019

I've just seen a talk about Brexit on the German television channel Phönix and one person mentioned something very interesting.
"The Tories are probably the only conservative party in the world to make policies against their own economy"
That's very true I think.



Bofferbrauer2 said:
Pyro as Bill said:

So, the same as every poll (telephone) in the week leading up to the referendum then? The 'poll of polls' never once had Leave winning even when adjusted for those likely to vote.

The most recent poll I saw had it 55-45 in favour of Remain. That's the same as the Populus poll done the day before the referendum.

As long as our treasonous politicians don't remove the World Trade Brexit option from the next referendum, Leave will win again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum#2016

You need to re-order the results based on whether they were telephone or online. Online was closest to the actual result but their methodology was shit.

Remain might be the most popular answer but like with the original ref, you have to take into account those who are likely to actually vote and for the next ref, those who would prefer to see a democratic result enacted regardless of what their personal preference is. Unlike remainers, many leavers voted to help the poorest in our own society instead of looking after their own immediate interest. We're playing the long game.

Remainocrats will make the Leave win even bigger. Foreigners understand less than we do the powers at play.



Nov 2016 - NES outsells PS1 (JP)

Don't Play Stationary 4 ever. Switch!

England has a 2 million majority in favour of leave. The Brits might end up staying in the EU but it's only a matter of time before England leaves.

An EU without England is a joke.

It's England, not the UK or Europe that has directed history and humanity for the past 300-1000 years.



Nov 2016 - NES outsells PS1 (JP)

Don't Play Stationary 4 ever. Switch!