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Bofferbrauer2 said:
KingofTrolls said:

United Kingdom's safety is determined by Belgian ground, France or Germany conquering Belgium/Holland is a lethal threat to UK. 

Also, this is why UK could not stay neutral in both wars. Nobody can live with a knife next to throat every day.

In fact, had the Germans not invaded Belgium and Luxembourg to circumvent the main French fortification line, the UK would most probably have stayed out of the conflict, at least for a while (Germany was still seen as the attacker and offender and thus in a more negative light, which both French and British propaganda during the War milked to death). But that while might have been long enough to beat the French decisively.

It would have been a much different world today if that would have happened. But that one decision to go by the Schlieffen plan and thus draw the British into the conflict has changed the world in so many ways - mostly bad ones for everybody involved.

To be fair, we weren't even aware Luxembourg was there. It's quite easy to miss!

Kidding of course, I love Luxembourg!



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

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konnichiwa said:

Stopthecoup is trending right now 

Demonstrators for democracy marching to #stopthecoup

Oh no, not a hashtag. Will you be lighting candles too? How ever will our ancient democracy survive? It is a coup and not a coop or coupe isn't it?

Please do us a favour and keep up with the #abolishthemonarchy crap, you're doing our side a massive service.

Team Democracy - PM, People + Her Majesty

v

Team Treason - Parliament, House of Lords, Nationalists, Anti-Semites, EU + Banks

I can't get over how badly the traitors have played this. At any point they could have supported a shitty, soft Brexit such that we all vote to stay under the terms of the EU. Instead you've took it down to the wire and now there's no 2nd ref, just the choice between 'No Deal Brexit' and 'Traitor Theresa's Treasonous Treaty'.

Thank You.

PS- 1. Please keep trying to paint us as racists who's only concern is immigration instead of protectionism and free trade.

2. Well done on fucking with our constitution and ancient protocol. Now we can stack the establishment with our guys and turn the tables on you.

3. Funny how the Left think Brexit heralds the rise of the far right, white supremacist, racist totalitarian state but still don't want firearms legalised.

Last edited by Pyro as Bill - on 30 August 2019

Nov 2016 - NES outsells PS1 (JP)

Don't Play Stationary 4 ever. Switch!

Pyro as Bill said:
konnichiwa said:

Stopthecoup is trending right now 

Demonstrators for democracy marching to #stopthecoup

Oh no, not a hashtag. Will you be lighting candles too? How ever will our ancient democracy survive? It is a coup and not a coop or coupe isn't it?

Please do us a favour and keep up with the #abolishthemonarchy crap, you're doing our side a massive service.

Team Democracy - PM, People + Her Majesty

v

Team Treason - Parliament, House of Lords, Nationalists, Anti-Semites, EU + Banks

I can't get over how badly the traitors have played this. At any point they could have supported a shitty, soft Brexit such that we all vote to stay under the terms of the EU. Instead you've took it down to the wire and now there's no 2nd ref, just the choice between 'No Deal Brexit' and 'Traitor Theresa's Treasonous Treaty'.

Thank You.

PS- 1. Please keep trying to paint us as racists who's only concern is immigration instead of protectionism and free trade.

2. Well done on fucking with our constitution and ancient protocol. Now we can stack the establishment with our guys and turn the tables on you.

3. Funny how the Left think Brexit heralds the rise of the far right, white supremacist, racist totalitarian state but still don't want firearms legalised.

I don't think you know what democracy means...



Pyro as Bill said:
konnichiwa said:

Team Democracy - PM, People + Her Majesty

v

Team Treason - Parliament, House of Lords, Nationalists, Anti-Semites, EU + Banks

I can't get over how badly the traitors have played this. At any point they could have supported a shitty, soft Brexit such that we all vote to stay under the terms of the EU. Instead you've took it down to the wire and now there's no 2nd ref, just the choice between 'No Deal Brexit' and 'Traitor Theresa's Treasonous Treaty'.

1) its over, theres going to be a hard brexit now (even if the UK delayed and delayed forever, and have had time to prepair now, so the blow wont be so bad)

2) Pyro bill, calling the "remainers" team treason, sounds stupid. 

Anyways, as said Boris is gonna run down the clock, and force through a hard brexit.
Respectfully I think thats a fine, its time to stop this circus show the UK have made of it.

Most of europe is probably thinking "good luck and good riddance", while the UK is thinking the same.
UK has a case of Super Ego, and honestly if you guys wanna go your own ways, just do that.

PS. secrely hopeing this means Scotland votes for independence, and wales for a reunification.



Pyro as Bill said:
konnichiwa said:

Stopthecoup is trending right now 

Demonstrators for democracy marching to #stopthecoup

Oh no, not a hashtag. Will you be lighting candles too? How ever will our ancient democracy survive? It is a coup and not a coop or coupe isn't it?

Please do us a favour and keep up with the #abolishthemonarchy crap, you're doing our side a massive service.

Team Democracy - PM, People + Her Majesty

v

Team Treason - Parliament, House of Lords, Nationalists, Anti-Semites, EU + Banks

I can't get over how badly the traitors have played this. At any point they could have supported a shitty, soft Brexit such that we all vote to stay under the terms of the EU. Instead you've took it down to the wire and now there's no 2nd ref, just the choice between 'No Deal Brexit' and 'Traitor Theresa's Treasonous Treaty'.

Thank You.

PS- 1. Please keep trying to paint us as racists who's only concern is immigration instead of protectionism and free trade.

2. Well done on fucking with our constitution and ancient protocol. Now we can stack the establishment with our guys and turn the tables on you.

3. Funny how the Left think Brexit heralds the rise of the far right, white supremacist, racist totalitarian state but still don't want firearms legalised.

A bit like the generalisation you complain about regarding 'all Brexiteers are racist', you make a fair few yourself - primarily about everyone not being on your side as traitors. For instance, May's WA was opposed by both remainers and many leavers, including the so-called ERG. Johnson himself votes against it twice and for it once, so one way or another it seems he would also meet your definition of a traitor.

And yes, while not all Brexiteers are racists by default, Brexit has emboldened many previously fringe far-right groups. I don't think Farage is a racist himself, but in his absence UKIP has morphed into a far-right party. It's also worth noting that one thing Brexiteers championed was the sovereign of our legal system, but are aghast that the far-right darling Tommy Robinson was imprisoned for contempt of court. It's rather ironic.

Also, I really don't get your firearms reference. You can own a firearm in the UK. My brother used to have a license and often went to a shooting club. The rules are just a lot stricter than they are in places like America. I don't see how having them more widespread would help. Ask both sides of the Brexit debate, one thing you will not get as a top response is 'we can fix this mess with more guns'.



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JRPGfan said:
Pyro as Bill said:

Team Democracy - PM, People + Her Majesty

v

Team Treason - Parliament, House of Lords, Nationalists, Anti-Semites, EU + Banks

I can't get over how badly the traitors have played this. At any point they could have supported a shitty, soft Brexit such that we all vote to stay under the terms of the EU. Instead you've took it down to the wire and now there's no 2nd ref, just the choice between 'No Deal Brexit' and 'Traitor Theresa's Treasonous Treaty'.

1) its over, theres going to be a hard brexit now (even if the UK delayed and delayed forever, and have had time to prepair now, so the blow wont be so bad)

2) Pyro bill, calling the "remainers" team treason, sounds stupid. 

Anyways, as said Boris is gonna run down the clock, and force through a hard brexit.
Respectfully I think thats a fine, its time to stop this circus show the UK have made of it.

Most of europe is probably thinking "good luck and good riddance", while the UK is thinking the same.
UK has a case of Super Ego, and honestly if you guys wanna go your own ways, just do that.

PS. secrely hopeing this means Scotland votes for independence, and wales for a reunification.

@bolded 1

The biggest misconception about no deal/hard brexit is people thinking that at least the "circus show" is over when it actually further drags out the whole process as the UK continues to argue exactly what form the trading relationship with the EU (as well as numerous other nations whose trade deals/agreements we'll have to renew, review and/or reformulate). The only difference is we'll have further weakened our hand and pissed a load of people off at the same time.

hard brexit/no deal will just drag the whole nightmare on for at least another decade.

@ bolded 2

You mean Ireland?



"You mean Ireland?"

Yeah.... that was a typo.



SpokenTruth said:

Winston Churchill's grandson, Sir Nicholas Soames, defected from the Conservative party thereby denying Boris Johnson the majority and the hard Brexit.

But at a cost.  He, along with 21 other defectors, will be expelled completely from the party.


UN has a report, by the trade organisation UNCTAD.
That estimates the Brits are about to lose out on atleast $17 billion dollars in exports, if they leave without a trade deal.
Thats around ~7-8% of their total trade with the EU.


If you include the "indirect" effects, its going to rise higher than that (cost wise).
Then you have to factor in expenses to boarder controll, ontop of that as well (another thing that ll rise costs).

I can respect Sir Nicholas Soames for doing this.
He's putting the country's intrest, ahead of his own or his parties, by doing what he believes is right.



I haven't weighed in on Brexit-related news in a while, but I think it's time.

I may be an American, but to be honest probably most of my friends online are British, so I wind up following developments in the UK a lot, on top of which the governmental chaos of this month has made headlines even here (outside of just the usual PBS News Hour coverage and American BBC broadcasts, I mean). Anyway, one theme I keep hearing is that there are likely to be new elections in the relatively near future, as in before Christmas. I'd like to weigh in on that today.

If a new election were to be held and I lived there, I'd vote for the Liberal Democrats. I was initially a big fan of Jeremy Corbyn's left wing, even quasi-socialist, ideas (I am a socialist), but have been underwhelmed by how he has navigated the age of Brexit so far. He clearly supports Brexit in principle and that's his main problem. He and the Labour Party have been remarkably unable to stake out a clear position on the most pressing issue of the day in the UK, which is precisely Brexit. If a no-deal Brexit comes to pass, we are seriously talking about shortages of food and medical supplies and the recolonization of Northern Ireland, with the possibility of resumed armed conflict that that could bring! No other issue can even compare in significance for the UK at this time. Because they can't decide their position on the most basic issue facing the country, Labour has instead focused on, you know, expanding the Gender Recognition Act (de-medicalizing gender identity transition for all legal purposes) and other shit I fail to sympathize with as their leading goals. They've been leading the way on this type of IMO reactionary social policy instead.

This is why the Remain Party came in second place in the British elections to the EU this summer, knocking the Labour Party into third place. The same type of thing could happen in a national election methinks, frankly, considering that the Liberal Democrats have managed to stake out a position of clear and definite opposition to this rolling disaster that has already sent Britain's economy into a state of contraction as of the last quarter and seriously threatens much, much worse. Any new election held in the near future will be a one-issue election essentially; a new referendum on Brexit. Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Party doesn't get that. Jo Swinson's Liberal Democrats do.

Jo Swinson's clear and straightforward position is that Article 50 should be revoked, halting the Brexit process. The somehow-governing Conservatives TRIED to make that sound like a scary proposition recently, but the effort backfired spectacularly. A petition to revoke Article 50 has acquired over 6 million signatures, making it the most signed petition in UK history.

(Incidentally, Scotland's highest court yesterday ruled that Boris Johnson's suspension of parliament was illegal. The Irish high court is expected to follow suit on different legal grounds today. I thought these developments were also worth noting as an aside.)

Frankly, Labour should be embarrassed that the neoliberals who run the Liberal Democratic Party, who once propped up a Conservative government themselves earlier this decade, have actually emerged as the main and most principled opposition to the isolationist far right that now governs Conservative Party politics and therefore the UK. They (Labour) can, and I suspect in fact probably will, pay a political price for their relative neutrality on the most important issue of the day.

Last edited by Jaicee - on 12 September 2019

I hope Bercow considers a job in political media.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.