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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - DF : Ark Survival Evolved on Switch - 360p (docked) / 216p (handheld) goodness!

 

Would you be proud to launch a game like this?

yes 11 20.37%
 
no 43 79.63%
 
Total:54
curl-6 on 15 December 2018
Mr Puggsly said:
curl-6 said:

Snake Pass in its current form is a 864p/30fps game on base PS4/X1 though, so clearly it's not just 1080p/60fps games that can make the jump to Switch in good shape, was all I meant.

Honestly if Ark was programmed with any competence whatsoever it could probably be a solid 1080p/60fps on PS4, 900p/30fps on Xbone, and maybe a dynamic 720p-648p/30fps on Switch with some settings tuned down. But it was apparentlyu coded by concussed monkeys.

That mobile version though does look surprisingly good, can't see why for the Switch version at least that wasn't the base.

To hit 1080p/60 fps on PS4 or X1, a game really needs to be built around that. Some people think that means UE4 is out of the question, but it really just depends on the graphics, assets, etc. I mean Gears 4 could have been a 1080p/60 fps and still have graphics better than 7th gen Gears games. But they raised the graphics so high, doing 1080p/60 fps isn't possible with the base GPU.

For a game like Ark, even with the best optimization, 1080p and 60 fps is off the table because its an open world game, tons of foliage, demanding effects, etc. I can't really think of games really pushing 1080p and/or 60 fps with Ark's presentation with an open world on top of that. In theory the X1X is better capable of doing that, still wouldn't have an amazing resolution though.

That was a typo, I meant to write 1080p/30fps.



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DonFerrari on 15 December 2018
Mr Puggsly said:
curl-6 said:

Snake Pass in its current form is a 864p/30fps game on base PS4/X1 though, so clearly it's not just 1080p/60fps games that can make the jump to Switch in good shape, was all I meant.

Honestly if Ark was programmed with any competence whatsoever it could probably be a solid 1080p/60fps on PS4, 900p/30fps on Xbone, and maybe a dynamic 720p-648p/30fps on Switch with some settings tuned down. But it was apparentlyu coded by concussed monkeys.

That mobile version though does look surprisingly good, can't see why for the Switch version at least that wasn't the base.

To hit 1080p/60 fps on PS4 or X1, a game really needs to be built around that. Some people think that means UE4 is out of the question, but it really just depends on the graphics, assets, etc. I mean Gears 4 could have been a 1080p/60 fps and still have graphics better than 7th gen Gears games. But they raised the graphics so high, doing 1080p/60 fps isn't possible with the base GPU.

For a game like Ark, even with the best optimization, 1080p and 60 fps is off the table because its an open world game, tons of foliage, demanding effects, etc. I can't really think of games really pushing 1080p and/or 60 fps with Ark's presentation with an open world on top of that. In theory the X1X is better capable of doing that, still wouldn't have an amazing resolution though.

God of War, HZD and RDR2 would probably do it if they were aiming at the level of IQ of Ark. As was pretty much posted several times, Ark is a very badly optimized.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

curl-6 on 15 December 2018
DonFerrari said:
curl-6 said:

Yeah I think this is as bad as it gets honestly, it'd be tough to get any uglier than this muddy, buggy monstrosity. I'm still kinda shocked this was actually allowed to release like this in this day and age. Reminds me of when Life of Black Tiger hit PS4, that blew my mind too, that at no stage did somebody put their foot down and say "guys, no, this just won't fly."

And yeah, being 60fps on the stronger consoles definitely makes it easier to port to Switch.

I think Snake Pass is an interesting example of a cross-platform title, as another UE4 game. It's 864p/30fps on the base PS4/Xbone and 675p/30fps on Switch, though they make up the difference by parring back some of the game's more subtle effects like water caustics and depth of field, so that the basic look is quite similar while still closing the performance gap in ways that aren't super noticeable.

Yeah I thought so too, it just looks totally unfinished, like a super early build of a game filled with placeholder assets where half the code isn't working properly yet.

Life of the Black Tiger is atrocious, but isn't retail game is it?

About the resolution and fps of Snake Pass, it seems a game that a competent dev would make 1080p60fps on X1, and when you see the res and fps of Switch it makes it pretty evident (and of course it was used by some odd fans to show Switch wasn't much weaker than X1).

Sumo Digital are competent developers. Digital Foundry even said Snake Pass is a lot more demanding than it may seem due to how much it has going on under the hood. It has entirely realtime lighting with nothing baked or static, plenty of rich post-processing effects, lots of smooth rounded geometry that leads to a deceptively high polygon count, tons of dense grass with every single blade reactive and shadow-casting.

There's no way it could hit 1080p/60 on base hardware. If it could, it wouldn't be 864p/30.



DonFerrari on 15 December 2018
curl-6 said:
DonFerrari said:

Life of the Black Tiger is atrocious, but isn't retail game is it?

About the resolution and fps of Snake Pass, it seems a game that a competent dev would make 1080p60fps on X1, and when you see the res and fps of Switch it makes it pretty evident (and of course it was used by some odd fans to show Switch wasn't much weaker than X1).

Sumo Digital are competent developers. Digital Foundry even said Snake Pass is a lot more demanding than it may seem due to how much it has going on under the hood. It has entirely realtime lighting with nothing baked or static, tons of rich post-processing effects, lots of smooth rounded geometry that leads to a deceptively high polygon count, tons of dense grass with every single blade reactive and shadow-casting.

There's no way it could hit 1080p/60 on base hardware. If it could, it wouldn't be 864p/30.

And what competent dev would choose subtle (that you even don't notice) things to put their performance budget that they can only make a 675p30fps to 864p30fps? That is like 60% difference in processing power being very generous. While he have seem plenty of cases (like Doom) with differences over 720p30fps to 1080p60fps or 450%

Sorry but either you are being wrong on the difference in everything else being subtle or the small difference in pixelcount on same fps is very untelling of the difference among HW.

As I said, that was used to earth end as "evidence" that Switch is very near X1 processing power.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

curl-6 on 15 December 2018
DonFerrari said:
curl-6 said:

Sumo Digital are competent developers. Digital Foundry even said Snake Pass is a lot more demanding than it may seem due to how much it has going on under the hood. It has entirely realtime lighting with nothing baked or static, tons of rich post-processing effects, lots of smooth rounded geometry that leads to a deceptively high polygon count, tons of dense grass with every single blade reactive and shadow-casting.

There's no way it could hit 1080p/60 on base hardware. If it could, it wouldn't be 864p/30.

And what competent dev would choose subtle (that you even don't notice) things to put their performance budget that they can only make a 675p30fps to 864p30fps? That is like 60% difference in processing power being very generous. While he have seem plenty of cases (like Doom) with differences over 720p30fps to 1080p60fps or 450%

Sorry but either you are being wrong on the difference in everything else being subtle or the small difference in pixelcount on same fps is very untelling of the difference among HW.

As I said, that was used to earth end as "evidence" that Switch is very near X1 processing power.

I never said the differences weren't noticeable, but rather that they weren't super noticeable, like not to the degree that it looks like a totally different game. Many competent devs choose to invest into pretty niceties like depth of field or water caustics, (Naughty Dog for instance, surely we're not going to call them incompetent) stuff that can be parred back or removed to get a game running on Switch. Snake Pass is simply a good example of how to bring a game to Switch, namely make cuts in the places where they will be least missed.



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StuOhQ on 15 December 2018

Ouch. I was actually looking forward to this, but that's just unplayable considering what it is.

As a retro gamer, I'm fine with 240p on my early systems, but those are clean, simple graphics. On a game like this, with muddy textures and an inconsistent frame-rate - it's like the worst of the N64.



Retro Tech Select - My Youtube channel. Covers throwback consumer electronics with a focus on "vid'ya games."

Latest Video: Top 12: Best Games on the N64 - Special Features, Episode 7

DonFerrari on 15 December 2018
curl-6 said:
DonFerrari said:

And what competent dev would choose subtle (that you even don't notice) things to put their performance budget that they can only make a 675p30fps to 864p30fps? That is like 60% difference in processing power being very generous. While he have seem plenty of cases (like Doom) with differences over 720p30fps to 1080p60fps or 450%

Sorry but either you are being wrong on the difference in everything else being subtle or the small difference in pixelcount on same fps is very untelling of the difference among HW.

As I said, that was used to earth end as "evidence" that Switch is very near X1 processing power.

I never said the differences weren't noticeable, but rather that they weren't super noticeable, like not to the degree that it looks like a totally different game. Many competent devs choose to invest into pretty niceties like depth of field or water caustics, (Naughty Dog for instance, surely we're not going to call them incompetent) stuff that can be parred back or removed to get a game running on Switch. Snake Pass is simply a good example of how to bring a game to Switch, namely make cuts in the places where they will be least missed.

So basically you will push semantics? Do you think ND would trade in 1080p to 864p 56% pixel count to "not super noticeable" water caustics? Please define what is not noticeable and what is super noticeable. Because you either notice a difference or you don't.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

curl-6 on 15 December 2018
DonFerrari said:
curl-6 said:

I never said the differences weren't noticeable, but rather that they weren't super noticeable, like not to the degree that it looks like a totally different game. Many competent devs choose to invest into pretty niceties like depth of field or water caustics, (Naughty Dog for instance, surely we're not going to call them incompetent) stuff that can be parred back or removed to get a game running on Switch. Snake Pass is simply a good example of how to bring a game to Switch, namely make cuts in the places where they will be least missed.

So basically you will push semantics? Do you think ND would trade in 1080p to 864p 56% pixel count to "not super noticeable" water caustics? Please define what is not noticeable and what is super noticeable. Because you either notice a difference or you don't.

How "noticeable" something is, depends on the observer. It still looks like the same core game, just a softer version with some missing effects. 



DonFerrari on 15 December 2018
curl-6 said:
DonFerrari said:

So basically you will push semantics? Do you think ND would trade in 1080p to 864p 56% pixel count to "not super noticeable" water caustics? Please define what is not noticeable and what is super noticeable. Because you either notice a difference or you don't.

How "noticeable" something is, depends on the observer. It still looks like the same core game, just a softer version with some missing effects. 

So it is a very flexible definition to accomodate for a very big processing difference... because at the same time we have the claims of very easy to differentiate the X1X and PS4Pro version of a game from true 4K to checkerboard 4K, and a 50% difference in processing power.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

curl-6 on 15 December 2018
DonFerrari said:
curl-6 said:

How "noticeable" something is, depends on the observer. It still looks like the same core game, just a softer version with some missing effects. 

So it is a very flexible definition to accomodate for a very big processing difference... because at the same time we have the claims of very easy to differentiate the X1X and PS4Pro version of a game from true 4K to checkerboard 4K, and a 50% difference in processing power.

Well, you'll have trouble getting too many people to agree on what is a big difference versus a minor one, opinions vary. With something like depth of field, you can save a lot of processing power by switching it off, and the player will often be none the wiser as if you haven't seen a comparison you may just think it was always not there.