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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Why do people get upset by OPTIONAL difficult assists?

DonFerrari said:

Sorry but that is BS. Movies, books, comics and series have it all the time, even more with SJW and "representation" demands. To the point when a midia cross happens it also change the public intended with the changes they do to the material.

Yeah, it happens, but not all the time. And it's usually not the done at the demand of the consumer.In fact, most of the time, a large group of consumers are complaining about these changes (just look at a Witcher Series thread on this very site about the casting of a black female in an intended white female role). That's the key difference with video games. Consumers are so entitled they think can demand creatives make a custom experience for them.

I personally think creatives should put out what they want and we vote on whether we like the art or not through our wallets just as it is in EVERY OTHER MEDIUM. It's not like entertainment should be ordered ala cart unless that's how the creative is selling it. Otherwise, if consumers are dictating what the art should be, the artistry is sucked out of it.



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DonFerrari said:

I'll tell you that the only thing I felt from Souls and Bloodborne was utter boredom from the choir repeat of the same level until memorizing route, movements and timing. About 0 enjoyment and pride after clearing the boses. Even Nioh felt similar. Now GoW I felt pleasure in retrying several times some of the boses and clearing half the game on level 1 on Gime Fod of War. But if masochism is a form of pleasure for some, who am I to judge?

You tried it, you didn't like it. That's a fair assessment. There is no single game that everyone likes.

Does that mean you think the devs should change the game to suit your needs as a gamer? Or can you just say to yourself "this type of game isn't for me" and move onto something like GoW?



danasider said:
DonFerrari said:

Sorry but that is BS. Movies, books, comics and series have it all the time, even more with SJW and "representation" demands. To the point when a midia cross happens it also change the public intended with the changes they do to the material.

Yeah, it happens, but not all the time. And it's usually not the done at the demand of the consumer.In fact, most of the time, a large group of consumers are complaining about these changes (just look at a Witcher Series thread on this very site about the casting of a black female in an intended white female role). That's the key difference with video games. Consumers are so entitled they think can demand creatives make a custom experience for them.

I personally think creatives should put out what they want and we vote on whether we like the art or not through our wallets just as it is in EVERY OTHER MEDIUM. It's not like entertainment should be ordered ala cart unless that's how the creative is selling it. Otherwise, if consumers are dictating what the art should be, the artistry is sucked out of it.

Did you miss the upset over some minor changes to the Star wars movies, or the direction of the new SW movies or the new Star Trek series. Every art form has demanding fans, in music, tv shows, movies, even books. We're just more exposed to video game news.



It's people being petty and thinking that somehow it diminishes their accomplishment of beating a 'video game'

I mean imagine if book readers starting bitching about people not reading but listening to the audio book. Be funny hearing book readers go "they didn't earn that story. They just listened to it. They need to read it. Fucking casuals" Lol.



danasider said:
DonFerrari said:

Sorry but that is BS. Movies, books, comics and series have it all the time, even more with SJW and "representation" demands. To the point when a midia cross happens it also change the public intended with the changes they do to the material.

Yeah, it happens, but not all the time. And it's usually not the done at the demand of the consumer.In fact, most of the time, a large group of consumers are complaining about these changes (just look at a Witcher Series thread on this very site about the casting of a black female in an intended white female role). That's the key difference with video games. Consumers are so entitled they think can demand creatives make a custom experience for them.

I personally think creatives should put out what they want and we vote on whether we like the art or not through our wallets just as it is in EVERY OTHER MEDIUM. It's not like entertainment should be ordered ala cart unless that's how the creative is selling it. Otherwise, if consumers are dictating what the art should be, the artistry is sucked out of it.

Sorry but I don't agree with you. It's not DEMANDING. It's people that can't get into the experience they offer and are REQUESTING changes. The dev may or may not listen and that may or may not make it a better product.

But the bad part is other gamers attacking people requesting it as if they were inferior gamers because of their request.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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SvennoJ said:

Yet how do optional difficulty options ruin your sense of pride when playing at the highest or recommended difficulty level. Why would it bother you that other people can start at a lower difficulty. Personally I didn't feel and pride or sense of achievement getting past that ridiculous boss guarding the path to the under city. It was simply frustrating having to come back from firelink shrine every time, or the other bon fire later. I don't enjoy repeating the same action over and over just to get to where I left off before. It does not heighten my adrenaline, just my frustration level. Difficulty options can also mean more checkpoints.

I enjoyed exploring the world in Dark Souls, sparring with Tower knights, going places I wasn't really equipped for yet. I did not enjoy the bosses much at all. Yet I grinded the spider queen for a while in co-op to meet the level requirement for equipment I wanted to use to continue exploration.

Anyway what wa the developer's vision when it comes to dying a lot. Nobody knows, yet not everyone has the same skill level or understanding of game mechanics. 10 deaths, 100 deaths, 1000 deaths to get to the next bonfire? What is the optimal number of deaths to 'enjoy' the game as intended. It's all flexible, as in any rpg. They always depend on how much time you have to put into it. Is it sensible to say that if you don't have 60 hours to dedicate on a game that you should not buy it? Is there an optimal time you should spend on a game to appreciate it as intended? Some people will finish it much faster than others, who gets the intended experience? Flexible difficulty options are never a bad thing imo. Better yet if the game slightly adjusts the difficulty behind the scenes to serve each player the intended number of deaths and game length.

These things are all somewhat arbitrary so I can't speak for the dev with specifics. More of understanding the game design where death is imminent (the first creature you face in just about every game kills you) and knowing the slogan "Prepare to Die" does it make it obvious to me that the devs intend for you to get used to the idea of using failure as a learning device.

And with people, any game can be conquered and made "easy." Does that mean the SoulsBorne games are easy games simply because some people can go on 0 damage runs? No, because the general population of gamers that try it die a lot more than they do in other games. So yeah, the challenge is intentional and an obvious part of the game.

Additionally, many RPGs are super long. Should people demand that there be less content so they can get through it? I think not. If you don't have the time for it, there are plenty of other games to play. That's the point I am making with SoulsBorne games.



danasider said:
SvennoJ said:

Yet how do optional difficulty options ruin your sense of pride when playing at the highest or recommended difficulty level. Why would it bother you that other people can start at a lower difficulty. Personally I didn't feel and pride or sense of achievement getting past that ridiculous boss guarding the path to the under city. It was simply frustrating having to come back from firelink shrine every time, or the other bon fire later. I don't enjoy repeating the same action over and over just to get to where I left off before. It does not heighten my adrenaline, just my frustration level. Difficulty options can also mean more checkpoints.

I enjoyed exploring the world in Dark Souls, sparring with Tower knights, going places I wasn't really equipped for yet. I did not enjoy the bosses much at all. Yet I grinded the spider queen for a while in co-op to meet the level requirement for equipment I wanted to use to continue exploration.

Anyway what wa the developer's vision when it comes to dying a lot. Nobody knows, yet not everyone has the same skill level or understanding of game mechanics. 10 deaths, 100 deaths, 1000 deaths to get to the next bonfire? What is the optimal number of deaths to 'enjoy' the game as intended. It's all flexible, as in any rpg. They always depend on how much time you have to put into it. Is it sensible to say that if you don't have 60 hours to dedicate on a game that you should not buy it? Is there an optimal time you should spend on a game to appreciate it as intended? Some people will finish it much faster than others, who gets the intended experience? Flexible difficulty options are never a bad thing imo. Better yet if the game slightly adjusts the difficulty behind the scenes to serve each player the intended number of deaths and game length.

These things are all somewhat arbitrary so I can't speak for the dev with specifics. More of understanding the game design where death is imminent (the first creature you face in just about every game kills you) and knowing the slogan "Prepare to Die" does it make it obvious to me that the devs intend for you to get used to the idea of using failure as a learning device.

And with people, any game can be conquered and made "easy." Does that mean the SoulsBorne games are easy games simply because some people can go on 0 damage runs? No, because the general population of gamers that try it die a lot more than they do in other games. So yeah, the challenge is intentional and an obvious part of the game.

Additionally, many RPGs are super long. Should people demand that there be less content so they can get through it? I think not. If you don't have the time for it, there are plenty of other games to play. That's the point I am making with SoulsBorne games.

Still even the biggest RPGs have some mechanics for you to finish it super fast.

I have finished my second run of persona in 50h (and took all that because I need 100% quests and relationship), I could probably do 30h run if I tried that way. My first run was 99h. Speedrun is 17h.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

SvennoJ said:

Did you miss the upset over some minor changes to the Star wars movies, or the direction of the new SW movies or the new Star Trek series. Every art form has demanding fans, in music, tv shows, movies, even books. We're just more exposed to video game news.

Yes, but all those changes were done by the content creators (directors, writers, etc), not by the consumer.

Fans bitch and moan in every medium, and that's expected. It's good even.

But it's not a reactive thing in video games. Gamers believe devs should make their game liked by every type of gamer, even at the expense of ruining the dev's vision, and that's just not possible. Like we're ordering custom creations when games can't please every type of consumer.



DonFerrari said:

Still even the biggest RPGs have some mechanics for you to finish it super fast.

I have finished my second run of persona in 50h (and took all that because I need 100% quests and relationship), I could probably do 30h run if I tried that way. My first run was 99h. Speedrun is 17h.

I finished a BB run in 6 hours, and I am by no means a gud player lol. There are ways to play the game the way it was made and get through it easier. There are plenty of options. But the options are there without sacrificing the experience the devs intended for the players to have through meticulous design and balancing of gameplay systems.



danasider said:
SvennoJ said:

Did you miss the upset over some minor changes to the Star wars movies, or the direction of the new SW movies or the new Star Trek series. Every art form has demanding fans, in music, tv shows, movies, even books. We're just more exposed to video game news.

Yes, but all those changes were done by the content creators (directors, writers, etc), not by the consumer.

Fans bitch and moan in every medium, and that's expected. It's good even.

But it's not a reactive thing in video games. Gamers believe devs should make their game liked by every type of gamer, even at the expense of ruining the dev's vision, and that's just not possible. Like we're ordering custom creations when games can't please every type of consumer.

It isn't requesting that it please EVERY type of consumer. It is one implementation that would please a lot of customers though. You are being disingenuous because your argument didn't achieve the point you wanted.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."