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Forums - Sales Discussion - Global Hardware 17 November 2018

Mummelmann said:
zorg1000 said:

This isn't entirely true, the year headstart certainly helped but Sony's own missteps helped 360 just as much, if not more, than anything Microsoft did in those first few years.

It's going to take a hell of a lot more than releasing earlier to take back marketshare from Sony, they pretty much have to rely on Sony repeating what they did with PS3 to do that.

True, Sony really dropped the ball with the PS3, but even still; it won't hurt MS to try to get ahead into next gen. More cross development with PC using their newly acquired studios could help them lift them into a decent start. Remaining where they are right now could seriously harm the Xbox brand. The biggest issue I see is the will to spend the funds to try a head start, the Xbox division has been hanging more or less by a thread for some time from MS corporation centrally, and plenty of higher ups want to axe it and put focus elsewhere. 

If you ask me, the biggest ball ever dropped has been by MS. They really should have thought of a more centralized approach for apps running on their operating system.

PC gaming and nearly every sold software on the planet yet MS makes practically nothing from any of that. Imagine a world where MS made like 10% of every software sold to be used on  windows operating system........ if they have that they wouldn't even bother with the XBox.



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Dr.Vita said:
PS4 is doing amazing, even though this was the Pokemon release week the Switch still couldn't destroy the PS4. Actually the only reason why Switch won this week is Japan.

I love this narrative change. It's pretty much the exact opposite as it is most weeks ("PS4 destroyed the Switch, because of Europe"). 



Mummelmann said:
zorg1000 said:

This isn't entirely true, the year headstart certainly helped but Sony's own missteps helped 360 just as much, if not more, than anything Microsoft did in those first few years.

It's going to take a hell of a lot more than releasing earlier to take back marketshare from Sony, they pretty much have to rely on Sony repeating what they did with PS3 to do that.

True, Sony really dropped the ball with the PS3, but even still; it won't hurt MS to try to get ahead into next gen. More cross development with PC using their newly acquired studios could help them lift them into a decent start. Remaining where they are right now could seriously harm the Xbox brand. The biggest issue I see is the will to spend the funds to try a head start, the Xbox division has been hanging more or less by a thread for some time from MS corporation centrally, and plenty of higher ups want to axe it and put focus elsewhere. 

Their newly acquired studios arent likely to have new titles for the launch window of a 2019 release though.

inXile & Obsidian released both released games this year and both have multiplat titles coming next year.

Undead Labs, Playground & Compulsion all released games this year.

I don't see any of these studios having big titles ready for late 2019/early 2020.

Same goes for their other studios. Rare released a game this year, Turn 10 confirmed they are skipping next year, The Coalition has an XBO game next year.

 

That doesnt leave them with many options for games to release during the year headstart outside of ports and cross-gen titles which I dont think will be enough to gain take sales away from Sony.

It seems like a holiday 2020 release for the new Xbox fits better for their 1st party studios to get exclusive games out at launch and during the first year.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

AngryLittleAlchemist said:
Dr.Vita said:
PS4 is doing amazing, even though this was the Pokemon release week the Switch still couldn't destroy the PS4. Actually the only reason why Switch won this week is Japan.

I love this narrative change. It's pretty much the exact opposite as it is most weeks ("PS4 destroyed the Switch, because of Europe"). 

Won and destroyed are two different things tho.

But I don't get what the big deal is anyway. The switch did great and I think any PS fan that has a problem with that is delusional. The way I would see it is like "yh, they won a week.... so that makes it how may now in the year?"



zorg1000 said:
Mummelmann said:

True, Sony really dropped the ball with the PS3, but even still; it won't hurt MS to try to get ahead into next gen. More cross development with PC using their newly acquired studios could help them lift them into a decent start. Remaining where they are right now could seriously harm the Xbox brand. The biggest issue I see is the will to spend the funds to try a head start, the Xbox division has been hanging more or less by a thread for some time from MS corporation centrally, and plenty of higher ups want to axe it and put focus elsewhere. 

Their newly acquired studios arent likely to have new titles for the launch window of a 2019 release though.

inXile & Obsidian released both released games this year and both have multiplat titles coming next year.

Undead Labs, Playground & Compulsion all released games this year.

I don't see any of these studios having big titles ready for late 2019/early 2020.

Same goes for their other studios. Rare released a game this year, Turn 10 confirmed they are skipping next year, The Coalition has an XBO game next year.

 

That doesnt leave them with many options for games to release during the year headstart outside of ports and cross-gen titles which I dont think will be enough to gain take sales away from Sony.

It seems like a holiday 2020 release for the new Xbox fits better for their 1st party studios to get exclusive games out at launch and during the first year.

That's fair, but I don't see much of an option if they want to avoid obscurity in the near future. Both the PS3 and Xbox 360 had pitiful launch titles, and even the PS4 and Xbox One had some pretty paltry offerings from the beginning. Remakes, multiplats and smaller 1st party fare dictated the start (Killzone is hardly a huge franchise, Knack was a flop, Flower was niche). AC IV: Black Flag, CoD: Ghosts and FIFA + Madden and Battefield 4 were the main hooks at launch, all of which were available on the previous/current gen as well.

My point is, most consoles have some pretty shit software, or decent shared software, to begin with. We all remember Lair (*shudders*) and Perfect Dark Zero as well. Cross-gen titles and remakes/remasters were pretty much all the PS4 and Xbox One at the start of their lives as well, the few exclusives did fairly poorly, like Ryse: Son of Rome and Beyond: Two Souls. 2014 was better, naturally, but not incredible by any measure. InFamous: Second Son did well, but the meat and potatoes for the PS4 that year was Destiny and a slew of multiplats and two very popular remasters (GTA V and TLoU). The Xbox One had Titanfall, which sold about on par with InFamous, a good outing from Destiny (shared with PS4, of course), an under performing Sunset Overdrive and then a slew of multiplats and some collections and remakes/remasters. Call of Duty, FIFA, Madden and the like were main driving forces for sales in most cases, along with re-release of GTA V, this is hardly a magical feat to copy for anyone in a console's first 12-15 months.

I agree with the sentiment that poor software won't help them that much in taking customers from Sony, but keeping on chugging with the Xbox One will net them even less influence, and that's more or less my entire point in all this. Besides, Sony has more or less blown their load with the PS4 and launched most of its heavy-hitters, launching a year ahead could make some difference in that it would put stress on Sony and make the PS4 seem like a fairly dull choice, especially in the Xbox' traditionally strongest markets. Having technically superior versions of multiplats helps a whole lot, the 360 was known for having better versions of multiplats, the PS4 has that reputation this gen, it makes a whole lot of difference if one party is left playing catch-up in this regard.

But hey, I could be talking out of my ass and be dead wrong. I'm open to that possibility, at the very least.  



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AngryLittleAlchemist said:
Dr.Vita said:
PS4 is doing amazing, even though this was the Pokemon release week the Switch still couldn't destroy the PS4. Actually the only reason why Switch won this week is Japan.

I love this narrative change. It's pretty much the exact opposite as it is most weeks ("PS4 destroyed the Switch, because of Europe"). 

Most weeks the PS4 does not have a global phenomenon such as Pokemon launching. Nor is it the week before a gigantic sale where you could get a PS4 + Spider-Man for $200.To treat this week as "most weeks" shows an almost hilarious lack of judgment.



Mummelmann said:
zorg1000 said:

Their newly acquired studios arent likely to have new titles for the launch window of a 2019 release though.

inXile & Obsidian released both released games this year and both have multiplat titles coming next year.

Undead Labs, Playground & Compulsion all released games this year.

I don't see any of these studios having big titles ready for late 2019/early 2020.

Same goes for their other studios. Rare released a game this year, Turn 10 confirmed they are skipping next year, The Coalition has an XBO game next year.

 

That doesnt leave them with many options for games to release during the year headstart outside of ports and cross-gen titles which I dont think will be enough to gain take sales away from Sony.

It seems like a holiday 2020 release for the new Xbox fits better for their 1st party studios to get exclusive games out at launch and during the first year.

That's fair, but I don't see much of an option if they want to avoid obscurity in the near future. Both the PS3 and Xbox 360 had pitiful launch titles, and even the PS4 and Xbox One had some pretty paltry offerings from the beginning. Remakes, multiplats and smaller 1st party fare dictated the start (Killzone is hardly a huge franchise, Knack was a flop, Flower was niche). AC IV: Black Flag, CoD: Ghosts and FIFA + Madden and Battefield 4 were the main hooks at launch, all of which were available on the previous/current gen as well.

My point is, most consoles have some pretty shit software, or decent shared software, to begin with. We all remember Lair (*shudders*) and Perfect Dark Zero as well. Cross-gen titles and remakes/remasters were pretty much all the PS4 and Xbox One at the start of their lives as well, the few exclusives did fairly poorly, like Ryse: Son of Rome and Beyond: Two Souls. 2014 was better, naturally, but not incredible by any measure. InFamous: Second Son did well, but the meat and potatoes for the PS4 that year was Destiny and a slew of multiplats and two very popular remasters (GTA V and TLoU). The Xbox One had Titanfall, which sold about on par with InFamous, a good outing from Destiny (shared with PS4, of course), an under performing Sunset Overdrive and then a slew of multiplats and some collections and remakes/remasters. Call of Duty, FIFA, Madden and the like were main driving forces for sales in most cases, along with re-release of GTA V, this is hardly a magical feat to copy for anyone in a console's first 12-15 months.

I agree with the sentiment that poor software won't help them that much in taking customers from Sony, but keeping on chugging with the Xbox One will net them even less influence, and that's more or less my entire point in all this. Besides, Sony has more or less blown their load with the PS4 and launched most of its heavy-hitters, launching a year ahead could make some difference in that it would put stress on Sony and make the PS4 seem like a fairly dull choice, especially in the Xbox' traditionally strongest markets. Having technically superior versions of multiplats helps a whole lot, the 360 was known for having better versions of multiplats, the PS4 has that reputation this gen, it makes a whole lot of difference if one party is left playing catch-up in this regard.

But hey, I could be talking out of my ass and be dead wrong. I'm open to that possibility, at the very least.  

The bigger problem Microsoft has to contend with and I am not sure they can succeed is in stalling the PS5 hype. The PS4 has been such a massive success that I am not sure Sony can lose next gen unless they drop the ball big-time. Remember back in 1999-2000 the dreamcast had a larger more varied library of games than the PS2 did at launch. It didn't matter no one cared about the DC because PS owners waited out until the PS2 arrived at store shelves they didn't even give Sega a try. I think MS is in for a similar struggle here. People  will wait for the PS5 even if XBOX 2 launches first.



Megiddo said:
AngryLittleAlchemist said:

I love this narrative change. It's pretty much the exact opposite as it is most weeks ("PS4 destroyed the Switch, because of Europe"). 

Most weeks the PS4 does not have a global phenomenon such as Pokemon launching. Nor is it the week before a gigantic sale where you could get a PS4 + Spider-Man for $200.To treat this week as "most weeks" shows an almost hilarious lack of judgment.

Thats even putting it lightly.

I personally think the main takeaway from nintendo is that its doing well. And at least much better than MS. 

Its kinda hilarious when the NS wins a week and somehow some almost make it seem like its some sort of major accomplishment. I would consider it an accomplishment if outside major releases and holiday windows the NS at the same price was beating the PS4 most weeks. Cause that at least shows that it has a baseline that is higher than that of the PS4. 

These great sales amount to nothing if the following week or weeks its right back to losing every week again. Or if come next year the PS4 continues being ahead of it. And remember, this is against a console at the tail end of its life. S what happens when its $199? Or when the PS5 is released?



Switch has done pretty amazing for both NVIDIA and Nintendo, I mean... this one week alone the system has outsold the total sales of the Sega 32X over the 3 years it was on the market.



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Mummelmann said:
zorg1000 said:

Their newly acquired studios arent likely to have new titles for the launch window of a 2019 release though.

inXile & Obsidian released both released games this year and both have multiplat titles coming next year.

Undead Labs, Playground & Compulsion all released games this year.

I don't see any of these studios having big titles ready for late 2019/early 2020.

Same goes for their other studios. Rare released a game this year, Turn 10 confirmed they are skipping next year, The Coalition has an XBO game next year.

 

That doesnt leave them with many options for games to release during the year headstart outside of ports and cross-gen titles which I dont think will be enough to gain take sales away from Sony.

It seems like a holiday 2020 release for the new Xbox fits better for their 1st party studios to get exclusive games out at launch and during the first year.

That's fair, but I don't see much of an option if they want to avoid obscurity in the near future. Both the PS3 and Xbox 360 had pitiful launch titles, and even the PS4 and Xbox One had some pretty paltry offerings from the beginning. Remakes, multiplats and smaller 1st party fare dictated the start (Killzone is hardly a huge franchise, Knack was a flop, Flower was niche). AC IV: Black Flag, CoD: Ghosts and FIFA + Madden and Battefield 4 were the main hooks at launch, all of which were available on the previous/current gen as well.

My point is, most consoles have some pretty shit software, or decent shared software, to begin with. We all remember Lair (*shudders*) and Perfect Dark Zero as well. Cross-gen titles and remakes/remasters were pretty much all the PS4 and Xbox One at the start of their lives as well, the few exclusives did fairly poorly, like Ryse: Son of Rome and Beyond: Two Souls. 2014 was better, naturally, but not incredible by any measure. InFamous: Second Son did well, but the meat and potatoes for the PS4 that year was Destiny and a slew of multiplats and two very popular remasters (GTA V and TLoU). The Xbox One had Titanfall, which sold about on par with InFamous, a good outing from Destiny (shared with PS4, of course), an under performing Sunset Overdrive and then a slew of multiplats and some collections and remakes/remasters. Call of Duty, FIFA, Madden and the like were main driving forces for sales in most cases, along with re-release of GTA V, this is hardly a magical feat to copy for anyone in a console's first 12-15 months.

I agree with the sentiment that poor software won't help them that much in taking customers from Sony, but keeping on chugging with the Xbox One will net them even less influence, and that's more or less my entire point in all this. Besides, Sony has more or less blown their load with the PS4 and launched most of its heavy-hitters, launching a year ahead could make some difference in that it would put stress on Sony and make the PS4 seem like a fairly dull choice, especially in the Xbox' traditionally strongest markets. Having technically superior versions of multiplats helps a whole lot, the 360 was known for having better versions of multiplats, the PS4 has that reputation this gen, it makes a whole lot of difference if one party is left playing catch-up in this regard.

But hey, I could be talking out of my ass and be dead wrong. I'm open to that possibility, at the very least.  

Microsoft has struggled this gen because of lack of a constant flow of great games to play (not lack of power) Do you really think it would be a good idea to already release another console version without much content, especially when they are already in the weakest market position and this time won’t even have exclusives anymore? Remember everything will not only be on PC, but also on X1 (we’ll see abt that and X1X, at least if they stick to their “generations are over” promise.