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Forums - Politics Discussion - 13 Dead in Shooting in Thousand Oaks California

o_O.Q said: 

if any of those chinese citizens had a gun in their possession they would have been able to stop that attack i'd think

Or if the attackers had guns then the victims would have been a lot more, so thank god for gun control. This narrative of good guys with guns is just stupid because those good guy guns will do nothing when they're already dead because they naturally do not see the first shots coming.

It's about reducing victims and a knife isn't as efficient as an automatic killing machine designed to kill as many people as possible as fast as possible. How can that simple logic not get into certain people's thick skulls. It's the same reason why you don't sell flame throwers and tanks to ordinary citizens.



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Diogo said:

If only the bartender had a gun... I guess it's time for our thoughts and prayers.

There where off duty cops there.... didnt make a differnce.

Marine + smoke grenade > off duty cops > bartender with a gun.

The solution isnt more guns but less, bartender would probably have paniced and shot some innocent college student in his confusion.



JRPGfan said:
Diogo said:

If only the bartender had a gun... I guess it's time for our thoughts and prayers.

There where off duty cops there.... didnt make a differnce.

Marine + smoke grenade > off duty cops > bartender with a gun.

The solution isnt more guns but less, bartender would probably have paniced and shot some innocent college student in his confusion.

I know it was a serious matter, but I was being ironic. I do not agree, at all, with the idea that more guns would solve the problem. 



HintHRO said:
outlawauron said:

No, not at all. Please don't put words in mouth.

The hyperbole from people who don't live in the US is tiring. There's never any genuine conversation.

Actually we (Europe, Australia, Asia etc) can say exactly the same about people living in the US. The solution is so simple we can't believe the US hasn't done anything about it: Just. Ban. The. Fucking. Guns. You can call us ignorant, stupid or hyperbole, but we live in countries where school shootings actually never happen and that is because guns are not allowed. Allow guns and many innocent people die, or ban guns and way less innocent people die. For us it's not that hard a choice, but apparently for America it is.

So what is your actual suggestion? Go from home to home and seize all guns from every person? Ban all guns from being sold? Ban all guns from sale except those designated for hunting? Ban all guns in populated areas, but allow them in rural areas?

You don't publicly display your country, but there isn't a straight ban across the world as various countries have different levels of gun control.

Pemalite said:
Hiku said:



Where did you get your info?

As for Australia, between 1996 (the year they began implementing the gun law change) and 2007, there was a ~20% decline in homicides.


https://www.factcheck.org/2017/10/gun-control-australia-updated/

And moving on, between 2008 - 2013, it has remained lower than any year before 2007, even marking 3 new record lows, below the previous in 1997 (282).



Also, all this time Australia's population has steadily increased, but the nation’s homicide incident rate has fallen even more than the number of homicides — from 1.6 per 100,000 in 1995-96 to 1 per 100,000 in 2013-2014, according to a government report on crime trends.

But regarding non-familicide mass shootings (where 5 or more were killed), which is what we're mainly talking about here and not regular homicides, they had 11 in the 10 years that lead up to the Port Arthur massacre in 1996. And after they implemented strict gun reform, they had 0 in the 20 years that followed.
There were a few familicide/arson incidents, but familicide is impossible to regulate, as access to family members that trust you allows a pillowcase to become a deadly weapon when they're sleeping. Such a pillow can however not easily kill people you don't know at a rock concert, which is the point here.

 

Should also mention that Gun Ownership in Australia has also been rising.

Guns per capita has been decreasing, but the total amount of guns in the country has increased.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-44105129

We simply don't allow idiots to have guns... Where-as the USA it's more like a free-for-all.

Violent crime and homicides are decreasing in the US as well. The above data shows that the gun ban did nothing to decrease homicides.



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Well, just imagine if everyone else wore a weapon there as well, according to many republicans everything would have turned out great then.



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The US either goes back to the Wild Wild West with everyone carrying a gun into any type of establishment, school, church, hospital you name it or armed security at every establishment or no guns at all. Anything in the middle has very little chance of getting through. The US loves it guns and they will also find an excuse to keep their guns.



Another shooting and another day nothing will be done.



vivster said:
o_O.Q said: 

if any of those chinese citizens had a gun in their possession they would have been able to stop that attack i'd think

Or if the attackers had guns then the victims would have been a lot more, so thank god for gun control. This narrative of good guys with guns is just stupid because those good guy guns will do nothing when they're already dead because they naturally do not see the first shots coming.

It's about reducing victims and a knife isn't as efficient as an automatic killing machine designed to kill as many people as possible as fast as possible. How can that simple logic not get into certain people's thick skulls. It's the same reason why you don't sell flame throwers and tanks to ordinary citizens.

Exactly this. ^

I'm gonna use this for every argument I get into over this issue.



outlawauron said:
HintHRO said:

Actually we (Europe, Australia, Asia etc) can say exactly the same about people living in the US. The solution is so simple we can't believe the US hasn't done anything about it: Just. Ban. The. Fucking. Guns. You can call us ignorant, stupid or hyperbole, but we live in countries where school shootings actually never happen and that is because guns are not allowed. Allow guns and many innocent people die, or ban guns and way less innocent people die. For us it's not that hard a choice, but apparently for America it is.

So what is your actual suggestion? Go from home to home and seize all guns from every person? Ban all guns from being sold? Ban all guns from sale except those designated for hunting? Ban all guns in populated areas, but allow them in rural areas?

You don't publicly display your country, but there isn't a straight ban across the world as various countries have different levels of gun control.

Pemalite said:

Should also mention that Gun Ownership in Australia has also been rising.

Guns per capita has been decreasing, but the total amount of guns in the country has increased.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-44105129

We simply don't allow idiots to have guns... Where-as the USA it's more like a free-for-all.

Violent crime and homicides are decreasing in the US as well. The above data shows that the gun ban did nothing to decrease homicides.

That isn't what the evidence Hiku or myself has provided has said.
But feel free to provide evidence to substantiate your claims.

In short however... Australia didn't have a gun massacre for decades... Where-as before it was a common occurrence just like the USA.

Gun control works.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Ban guns in America, and you'll still have (mass) shootings from time to time, and you'll have your weekly mass stabbings, even if that means there are plenty of stabbings, just not in totals to meet "mass" designation as it stands now. There is of course the point to be made that only some American's have guns, while every household has a knife, which typically isn't locked away in a cabinet. I also don't know about you, but while they could very well miss while shooting at you, they won't miss with a knife.

Let's get rid of horses in cities because they keep defecating and that's unhealthy and unsafe. Let's replace them with automobiles and crashes and CO2 emissions...

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UK=America or Australia=America or Japan=America is like saying 2=1. Which of course would be incorrect, because 1=1 and America=America.

Skyscrapers and bridges in Tokyo are quite safe for the most part, other than in extreme situations. Let's take a NY skyscraper and bridge design and build it in Tokyo...