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Forums - Politics Discussion - 13 Dead in Shooting in Thousand Oaks California

Snoopy on 08 November 2018
JRPGfan said:
Snoopy said:

Apparently, the person who committed the mass shooting doesn't have a criminal record outside of speeding tickets. If this is true, I don't know how we could've restricted his gun rights. We could say anyone who had ptsd can't have a gun, but that will result in people not getting any help and probably cause more mass shootings.

the OP links to a cnn page, where theres articles related to this situation.

articles like :

Neighbor said shooter's mother "lived in fear"  (police had been called to home a few times)
Hes even had mental health specialists with them out to the house to talk to him before.
They cleared him (he wasnt crazy enough for them to do anything about it, I guess).

I think there was something about domestic violence too...  cant find atm.
So its not true he just had speeding tickets.
His family + police knew he wasnt "quite" right in the head, yet he still got to keep his gun.

 

"We could say anyone who had ptsd can't have a gun, but that will result in people not getting any help and probably cause more mass shootings."

That makes alot of sense actually imo.
People who have had mental break downs before, probably shouldnt own a gun.
Even if its been years without them haveing another break down.

Just because you get the police called on you doesn't mean it will be on your criminal record. I got the police called on me before because a neighbor thought I was putting my trash on her lawn which wasn't true or one time when I was younger a neighbor called the police on my dad because he was yelling at me and my sister (we did something stupid that I regret to this day). The police officer actually yelled a little at us for doing it.



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pokoko on 08 November 2018
outlawauron said:
Jumpin said:

So you want to use the gang-ridden state of third world countries as the bar for acceptability for the United States?

No, not at all. Please don't put words in mouth.

The hyperbole from people who don't live in the US is tiring. There's never any genuine conversation.

This is true.  Many of the comments I usually see about this are either useless sarcasm, ridiculous comparisons, or unrealistic proclamations.  



JRPGfan on 08 November 2018
Snoopy said:
JRPGfan said:

Just because you get the police called on you doesn't mean it will be on your criminal record. I got the police called on me before because a neighbor thought I was putting my trash on her lawn which wasn't true or one time when I was younger a neighbor called the police on my dad because he was yelling at me and my sister (we did something stupid that I regret to this day). The police officer actually yelled a little at us for doing it.

Then lets say your Mom/dad or your Wife, calls the cops on you and tell them your haveing a mental break down.
It doesnt go on your record.... but do you think you should be allowed to keep a gun afterwards?

Like if your mom,dad or wife, feared for their saftey or yours, and called cops because of it..... shouldnt they take your fire arm away from you?

Thats what happend right? and thats very differnt than a neighbor complaining about someone potentially putting their trash the wrong place.



HintHRO on 08 November 2018
pokoko said:

Meanwhile, in my state, the NRA is trying to get mental health requirements dropped for gun ownership.  Three cheers for the NRA.

However, people yelling to "ban all guns" should just stop.  It's not going to happen and it wouldn't be a very good idea, anyway, not unless there is some magic wand they can wave to suddenly remove all 70 million guns from the country.  Concentrate on more realistic measures.

LiquorandGunFun said:

he was cleared by mental health "experts" after some calls about domestic violence and the police responded. this was a system failure in kalifornia.

how about some threads every time someone is stabbed in london? or is that not on the propaganda agenda?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/nov/06/london-stabbings-tributes-paid-to-fifth-victim-in-six-days

"But people get killed with other things!" is such a ridiculous argument.  With that kind of nonsense logic, nuclear bombs and chemical weapons should be legal.  

Eh, if you want to realize banning all guns from an entire country, obviously banning them is the very first step in accomplishing that... Just because it will be a slow process doesn't mean the US should keep selling guns to random people. The next step will be arresting people who still possess guns after banning them. People will stop using them or deliver them to the police. It's about taking that first step. Right now the US is only talking about regulations (which will never work in the first place) while thousands of innocent people die. 



Snoopy on 08 November 2018
JRPGfan said:
Snoopy said:

Just because you get the police called on you doesn't mean it will be on your criminal record. I got the police called on me before because a neighbor thought I was putting my trash on her lawn which wasn't true or one time when I was younger a neighbor called the police on my dad because he was yelling at me and my sister (we did something stupid that I regret to this day). The police officer actually yelled a little at us for doing it.

Then lets say your Mom/dad or your Wife, calls the cops on you and tell them your haveing a mental break down.
It doesnt go on your record.... but do you think you should be allowed to keep a gun afterwards?

Like if your mom,dad or wife, feared for their saftey or yours, and called cops because of it..... shouldnt they take your fire arm away from you?

Thats what happend right? and thats very differnt than a neighbor complaining about someone potentially putting their trash the wrong place.

You have to have proof that he is unstable which is probably why he got evaluated. Granted, the people who cleared him might've done a bad job, but you can't punish someone automatically without evidence.



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Wyrdness on 08 November 2018

I'm in utter disbelief that the worst year we've had in the UK in decades with violent crime still doesn't even compare to the US like we're not even close even after years of police cuts, the last two reported shootings in the US have even had cops killed highlighting no amount of training or weapons can prevent these events as long as easy access to guns exist.



JRPGfan on 08 November 2018
Snoopy said:
JRPGfan said:

Then lets say your Mom/dad or your Wife, calls the cops on you and tell them your haveing a mental break down.
It doesnt go on your record.... but do you think you should be allowed to keep a gun afterwards?

Like if your mom,dad or wife, feared for their saftey or yours, and called cops because of it..... shouldnt they take your fire arm away from you?

Thats what happend right? and thats very differnt than a neighbor complaining about someone potentially putting their trash the wrong place.

You have to have proof that he is unstable which is probably why he got evaluated. Granted, the people who cleared him might've done a bad job, but you can't punish someone automatically without evidence.

Thats when I say you listen to the family members & wife.

LIke if they fear for your safety or theirs, and call the cops because of it...... I dont care if someone gets cleared from a evaluation.
I think the cops should take your weapon just to be on the safe side.

You listen to the people that know the person best, and/or live with them.

 

"Granted, the people who cleared him might've done a bad job, but you can't punish someone automatically without evidence."

Obviously they did, or 13 people would be alive today instead of dead.
If they had taken his gun form him, this probably wouldnt have happend.



o_O.Q on 08 November 2018
OlfinBedwere said:
LiquorandGunFun said:

he was cleared by mental health "experts" after some calls about domestic violence and the police responded. this was a system failure in kalifornia.

how about some threads every time someone is stabbed in london? or is that not on the propaganda agenda?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/nov/06/london-stabbings-tributes-paid-to-fifth-victim-in-six-days

Dude, find me an incident where a person stabbed 13 people to death in one go, then we can talk.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/33-dead-130-injured-china-knife-wielding-spree-n41966

 

33 dead, 130 injured in a knifing spree



HintHRO on 08 November 2018
outlawauron said:
Jumpin said:

So you want to use the gang-ridden state of third world countries as the bar for acceptability for the United States?

No, not at all. Please don't put words in mouth.

The hyperbole from people who don't live in the US is tiring. There's never any genuine conversation.

Actually we (Europe, Australia, Asia etc) can say exactly the same about people living in the US. The solution is so simple we can't believe the US hasn't done anything about it: Just. Ban. The. Fucking. Guns. You can call us ignorant, stupid or hyperbole, but we live in countries where school shootings actually never happen and that is because guns are not allowed. Allow guns and many innocent people die, or ban guns and way less innocent people die. For us it's not that hard a choice, but apparently for America it is.



o_O.Q on 08 November 2018
SpokenTruth said:
OlfinBedwere said:

Dude, find me an incident where a person stabbed 13 people to death in one go, then we can talk.

And have it happen every other week.

it happens in china at about the same frequency but with knives