By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Why is the Switch still not getting big games from 3rd parties? October edition

It's still pretty early on, and these games take time. This is why we're mostly seeing ports and remasters at the moment - they're quicker to churn out, and like the Wii, these devs were caught off guard by the console's success, and hell, it probably took a year or more just to convince many to even START developing for the Switch after the sales didn't drop off a cliff like they expected, which means Q2 of this year at the EARLIEST, just for BEGINNING development.

So it'll probably won't be until late '19-'20 when we start seeing announcements for new major AAA stuff built for the platform. Remember, the vast majority of these developers probably assumed this console was going to be a massive flop, and games these days can take 3-5 years to develop with the monstrous projects they've ballooned into. Still, even when devs start jumping on board, I don't think Nintendo will ever get the support the other consoles get simply because it's just tough for these companies to compete with Nintendo (or at least many devs have that perception that fans of the console will opt for Nintendo games over theirs). This may sound arrogant as a Nintendo fan, but I really think there's truth to it.



 

"We hold these truths to be self-evident - all men and women created by the, go-you know.. you know the thing!" - Joe Biden

Around the Network
Miyamotoo said:
First, some people need to realise that Switch is a quite different compared to XB1/PS4 in plenty of aspects, going from hybrid concept, to power and architecture, time of release and install base (that's rapidly shrinking when we talking to XB1, and next year probably Switch will have bigger install base), and point that most of 3rd party didnt released their big 3rd party games on Nintendo platform from SNES. So, only with that on mind its very obvious why Switch still dont have strong 3rd party support when we talking about big 3rd party games, and why most likely never will have strong 3rd party support when we talking about big 3rd party games.
With all that on mind, its obvious that Switch is not best suited for current gen big 3rd party games, that doent mean that Switch will not have any current gen big 3rd party game, it means that people need to have realistic expectations when we talking about big 3rd party games on Switch,


Saying that, actually Switch for now has solid and positive 3rd party support for Nintendo platform, for instance we never before (or very long ago) had games like Skyrim, Doom, Wolf2, Diablo, CiV, mainline Final Fantasy games (even if we talk about last gens ports)..

Also, some people need to realise that big 3rd party games takes time for development, all this years big 3rd party games were way back in development before it was very obvious that Switch will be successful platform with strong install base (IMO that become obvious at beginning of this year), for instance RDR2 is something like 7 years in development, so that's definitely one of reasons why Switch still dont have some big 3rd party games.
Second reason is that current size/availability/costs of Switch carts are problem for some 3rd parties, especially when we talk about big 3rd party games that would need 32GB or even 64GB carts, Vern (know insider from Resetera that knows plenty inside informations when comes to 3rd party project for Switch) said that he know that some unannounced 3rd party games are delayed because problem of size/availability/costs of carts, but luckily, WSJ reported that Switch will receive 64GB cards in 2019. and logically in same time we can expect that prices for 32GB and lower sizes will go down also.

So with all that on mind, Switch continue getting increased 3rd party support and I expecting more big 3rd party games that we had this year in any case.
I actually made a thread before, that Switch will have best 3rd party support than any Nintendo platform after SNES, and I still stand behind that.

Great post, at the bolded though... GBA had a lot of those games :D Doom, Doom 2, Wolfenstein, Final Fantasy's mainline and tactics. No elder scrolls though! But still... the much loved

Was on there.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/dlAAAOSwv0tVbmdO/s-l300.jpg

https://i.ebayimg.com/09/!!e!VJ6Q!mM~$(KGrHqR,!hYE0e35PrTFBNP4H4pl0w~~_1.JPG?set_id=89040003C1

https://i.ebayimg.com/02/!!e!T+mgB2M~$(KGrHqN,!lUEz+yFw(kbBNP2r8gz3Q~~_1.JPG?set_id=89040003C1



Why not check me out on youtube and help me on the way to 2k subs over at www.youtube.com/stormcloudlive

Ganoncrotch said:
Miyamotoo said:
First, some people need to realise that Switch is a quite different compared to XB1/PS4 in plenty of aspects, going from hybrid concept, to power and architecture, time of release and install base (that's rapidly shrinking when we talking to XB1, and next year probably Switch will have bigger install base), and point that most of 3rd party didnt released their big 3rd party games on Nintendo platform from SNES. So, only with that on mind its very obvious why Switch still dont have strong 3rd party support when we talking about big 3rd party games, and why most likely never will have strong 3rd party support when we talking about big 3rd party games.
With all that on mind, its obvious that Switch is not best suited for current gen big 3rd party games, that doent mean that Switch will not have any current gen big 3rd party game, it means that people need to have realistic expectations when we talking about big 3rd party games on Switch,


Saying that, actually Switch for now has solid and positive 3rd party support for Nintendo platform, for instance we never before (or very long ago) had games like Skyrim, Doom, Wolf2, Diablo, CiV, mainline Final Fantasy games (even if we talk about last gens ports)..

Also, some people need to realise that big 3rd party games takes time for development, all this years big 3rd party games were way back in development before it was very obvious that Switch will be successful platform with strong install base (IMO that become obvious at beginning of this year), for instance RDR2 is something like 7 years in development, so that's definitely one of reasons why Switch still dont have some big 3rd party games.
Second reason is that current size/availability/costs of Switch carts are problem for some 3rd parties, especially when we talk about big 3rd party games that would need 32GB or even 64GB carts, Vern (know insider from Resetera that knows plenty inside informations when comes to 3rd party project for Switch) said that he know that some unannounced 3rd party games are delayed because problem of size/availability/costs of carts, but luckily, WSJ reported that Switch will receive 64GB cards in 2019. and logically in same time we can expect that prices for 32GB and lower sizes will go down also.

So with all that on mind, Switch continue getting increased 3rd party support and I expecting more big 3rd party games that we had this year in any case.
I actually made a thread before, that Switch will have best 3rd party support than any Nintendo platform after SNES, and I still stand behind that.

Great post, at the bolded though... GBA had a lot of those games :D Doom, Doom 2, Wolfenstein, Final Fantasy's mainline and tactics. No elder scrolls though! But still... the much loved

Was on there.

I edited post, "or at least very long ago".



Miyamotoo said:
Ganoncrotch said:

Great post, at the bolded though... GBA had a lot of those games :D Doom, Doom 2, Wolfenstein, Final Fantasy's mainline and tactics. No elder scrolls though! But still... the much loved

 

Was on there.

I edited post, "or at least very long ago".

GBA... very long ago....

now I feel old, but you're right!



Why not check me out on youtube and help me on the way to 2k subs over at www.youtube.com/stormcloudlive

It can't run the games, farcry 5, Fallout 76, Red Dead Redemption 2, etc.

For the games it could run... Idk they just can't be bothered. Though sales of third party games like Wolfenstein 2 are pretty bad. Doom/Skyrim sales were acceptable.

I've been saying it wouldn't get good western support since before launch, some people liked to hang on to false hope.



Around the Network

There are a few reasons that might explain why.

Power discrepancy is probably the most important reason.
And with that, companies have to decide if there's enough reasons to try and port/bring a multiplat. The userbase (demographics, mainly) is there but, if we look at the data we have for the US, only 30% of Switch owners don't own a PS4/XB1. That alone makes porting for Switch less viable (those same 70% users already have the option to buy the better version and probably at discount price).

When we look at the games we have from 3rd parties, things are not that encouraging either.
If we exclude M+R (because of the Nintendo characters), Fifa 18 is the (second) best selling 3rd party game with 1.03 million, followed by Skyrim with 1.01 million (a game that everyone has played a gazillion times) sold.
In third, we have Project Octopath Traveler in with sales of 0.66 million.
And looking down things just get worse.

Now, if the userbase wasn't there, we could say that lower sales happened because of different demographics, etc.
And, we can't exactly say because it's ports or remasters, when Fifa 18 sells a little above a million to 20 million Switch owners.
Even Sonic Forces is above Doom, and not just by a little.

Honestly, the reason might just be that there's no real BIG incentive to buy ports or multiplats on Switch, at least, those that are not Nintendo-like titles.
Though, all of this can change over time.

As some have said, games take time to make, but the annoucements, don't.
If the games were coming we would have known most of them by now.



Barkley said:
It can't run the games, farcry 5, Fallout 76, Red Dead Redemption 2, etc.

For the games it could run... Idk they just can't be bothered. Though sales of third party games like Wolfenstein 2 are pretty bad. Doom/Skyrim sales were acceptable.

I've been saying it wouldn't get good western support since before launch, some people liked to hang on to false hope.

Actually Switch could run those games if they are scaled down enough.

Wolf2 sold bad on every platform not only on Switch.



Miyamotoo said:
Barkley said:
It can't run the games, farcry 5, Fallout 76, Red Dead Redemption 2, etc.

For the games it could run... Idk they just can't be bothered. Though sales of third party games like Wolfenstein 2 are pretty bad. Doom/Skyrim sales were acceptable.

I've been saying it wouldn't get good western support since before launch, some people liked to hang on to false hope.

Actually Switch could run those games if they are scaled down enough.

Wolf2 sold bad on every platform not only on Switch.

Wolf2 sold 0.08m on switch and 1.21m on PS4, the switch version was especially abysmal. Are you really going to dismiss that as "bad on all systems"?

Let's also return to the realms of feasibility instead of "switch can run anything if you take a sledgehammer to it." It can barely run Doom/Wolfenstein, games which run at 1080p60 on PS4.

You don't need to defend the switch in every possible situation. The machine is substantially less powerful than the other consoles which causes issues with porting demanding titles.

#tap-translate { all: initial; } @keyframes translation-button-slide { from { transform: translateX(100%); } to { trasnform: translateX(0); } } @keyframes fadein-background { from { opacity: 0; } to { opacity: 0.7; } } @keyframes fadeout-background { from { opacity: 0.7; } to { opacity: 0; } } @keyframes fadein-button { from { opacity: 0; } to { opacity: 1; } } @keyframes translation-slidein { from { transform: translateX(-50%) translateY(-100%); } to { trasnform: translateX(-50%) translateY(0); } } @keyframes translation-slideout { from { trasnform: translateX(-50%) translateY(0); } to { transform: translateX(-50%) translateY(-100%); } } @keyframes spinner { from { transform: rotateZ(0deg); } to { transform: rotateZ(360deg); } } #tap-translate *, #tap-translate *::before, #tap-translate *::after { box-sizing: border-box; } #tap-translate .container { position: absolute; top: 0; left: 0; font-size: 16px; font-family: sans-serif; line-height: 1.2; color: black; z-index: 1000000000; } #tap-translate .translation-button { animation-duration: 0.1s; animation-timing-function: linear; animation-fill-mode: forwards; display: flex; align-items: center; justify-content: center; cursor: pointer; background: #f9f9fa; box-shadow: 0 0 5px #ccccc6; user-select: none; -moz-user-select: none; } #tap-translate .translation-button:active { background: #e1e1e6; } #tap-translate .translation-button.m-corner { animation-name: translation-button-slide; position: fixed; top: 20px; right: 0; width: 70px; height: 50px; } #tap-translate .translation-button.m-corner .translation-button_image { width: 50px; height: 50px; } #tap-translate .translation-button.m-next-to { animation-name: fadein-button; position: absolute; border-radius: 50%; width: 40px; height: 40px; } #tap-translate .translation-button.m-next-to .translation-button_image { width: 35px; height: 35px; } #tap-translate .translation { position: fixed; } #tap-translate .translation.m-closing .translation_background { animation-name: fadeout-background; } #tap-translate .translation.m-closing .translation_content { animation-name: translation-slideout; } #tap-translate .translation_background { animation-name: fadein-background; animation-duration: 0.2s; animation-timing-function: linear; animation-fill-mode: forwards; position: fixed; top: 0; left: 0; background: black; width: 100vw; height: 100vh; } #tap-translate .translation_content { animation-name: translation-slidein; animation-duration: 0.2s; animation-timing-function: linear; animation-fill-mode: forwards; position: fixed; top: 0; left: 50%; background: #f9f9fa; width: 90%; max-width: 400px; transform: translateX(-50%); } #tap-translate .translation_loader { animation-name: spinner; animation-duration: 1s; animation-timing-function: linear; animation-iteration-count: infinite; border: 5px solid #e1e1e6; border-top: 5px solid #0096dd; border-radius: 50%; margin: 15px auto; width: 45px; height: 45px; } #tap-translate .translation_info, #tap-translate .translation_error { padding: 15px; } #tap-translate .translation_info { overflow-y: auto; max-height: 80vh; } #tap-translate .translation_main.m-single { font-size: 18px; font-weight: bold; } #tap-translate .translation_secondary, #tap-translate .translation_language { padding-top: 10px; } #tap-translate .translation_language { font-size: 14px; } #tap-translate .translation_error { text-align: center; } #tap-translate .translation_error-sign { font-size: 50px; color: #d71111; } #tap-translate .translation_buttons { display: flex; flex-flow: row nowrap; user-select: none; -moz-user-select: none; } #tap-translate .translation_button { cursor: pointer; background: #e1e1e6; padding: 15px 0; text-align: center; width: 100%; } #tap-translate .translation_button:active { background: #afafb5; } #tap-translate .translation_button.m-primary { background: #0096dd; color: white; } #tap-translate .translation_button.m-primary:active { background: #066896; }


Barkley said:
Miyamotoo said:

Actually Switch could run those games if they are scaled down enough.

Wolf2 sold bad on every platform not only on Switch.

Wolf2 sold 0.08m on switch and 1.21m on PS4, the switch version was especially abysmal. Are you really going to dismiss that as "bad on all systems"?

Let's also return to the realms of feasibility instead of "switch can run anything if you take a sledgehammer to it." It can barely run Doom/Wolfenstein, games which run at 1080p60 on PS4.

You don't need to defend the switch in every possible situation. The machine is substantially less powerful than the other consoles which causes issues with porting demanding titles.

No, fact is that Wolf2 sold bad on all platforms, it had very weak launch on PS4/XB1 and had also weak launch on Switch. When you comparing Switch and PS4/XB1 release, have on mind that game on Switch is much less time in sale and didnt had any price cut for game and you have smaller install base, on PS4/XB1 you can buy same game for $20 and its like one year longer in sale on bigger install base. VGZh numbers are far from accurate, but going by their numbers Doom sold 2.7m while Wolf2 only 1.2m on PS4, and interesting enough, with their numbers Switch version of game sold almost same like PC version that again have price cuts and much lower price point and it was much longer in sale.

You do realise that Wii that was much weaker and much more different (tech/architecture) in any case compared to PS3/360, than Switch is compared to XB1/PS4, had couple of ports of PS3/360 CoD games!? When you want to talk about Doom, have on mind that game most of time runs at 830p and below 60FPS on XB1. Every XB1/PS4 game could be ported to Switch, only question is how much would need to be cut down.

I don't defending anything, I talking about facts. Point that "machine is substantially less powerful than the other consoles which causes issues with porting demanding titles" doesnt mean that port cant be done.

Last edited by Miyamotoo - on 17 October 2018

KBG29 said:
HoangNhatAnh said:

What handheld use x86 chip?

Nothing yet, but Ryzen is fully capable of running in a Mobile device.

As for scalability, benchmarks have a Ryzen 2700U with Radeon Mobile chip at 12 - 25W only trailing the Ryzen 2500X at 65W buy 33%. They are both 4 Core/8 Thread Ryzen chips. 

https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/AMD-Ryzen-7-2700U-vs-AMD-Ryzen-5-2500X/m432558vsm567224

Compair that with an Athlon 5350 vs Ryzen 3 2200G and it is 209% faster. This is a (4) core version of the CPU in the PS4 at 2.05GHz vs 1.6GHz, up agaist a (4) core Ryzen chip. The Jaguar is a 25W chip and the Ryzen chip is 45 - 65W. 

https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/AMD-Ryzen-3-2200G-vs-AMD-Athlon-5350-APU-R3/m441832vsm10020

If you look at Ryzen Mobile vs Jaguar, 12 - 25W vs 25W you get 124% increase, and that is with (2) Cores/ (4) Threads on Ryzen, vs (4) Cores on Jaguar.

https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/AMD-Ryzen-3-2300U-vs-AMD-Athlon-5350-APU-R3/m511816vsm10020

Looking at the most high end chip that could go in PS5 Ryzen 2700 8 Core/16 Threads 65W vs Ryzen 2700U 4 Cores/8 Threads, the effective processing gap is only 55%. 

https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/AMD-Ryzen-3-2300U-vs-AMD-Athlon-5350-APU-R3/m511816vsm10020

As we move to 7nm, 7nm+ and beyond, the gap will only close. Microsoft and Sony will both very likely be using Ryzen on PS5 and XB4, making it extremely easy to deliver a Mobile version of the systems.

I think Nintendo's decision to go with ARM and Nvidia has left the door wide open for Microsoft and Sony to grab the market anytime in the future. With Game Pass and PS Now, or via Digital, they can offer all their 1st party titles, and all 3rd party titles across Home and Mobile for one purchase. 

So there is none at the moment, got it. All things that you said are very correct and logical for ... your theory only.