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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Why is the Switch still not getting big games from 3rd parties? October edition

There are a lot of negatives: power, the cartridge situation, and unimpressive sales for some titles. It's clear 1P is driving the system.

I thought GTA 5 and CoD would show up this year. You'd think I would have learned my lesson at this point. Setting the bar low for next year: last gen ports/remasters, continued indie support, more fighters, and more anime games. With the 1P lineup that would be more than enough.

Last edited by xxbrothawizxx63 - on 17 October 2018

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Personally, I set the bar low this year because I quickly came to believe that most 3rd party publishers got on board with the Switch in late 2017/early 2018 after spending most of 2017 standing by the sidelines, waiting for the Switch to fail.  That wouldn't be enough time to allocate resources towards something like a CoD which is why I think some devs laughed at the idea of a Switch version of some 2018 titles.  Instead, I think 2019 is when to expect significant, non-port 3rd party support because that would give devs and publishers enough time to put effort into Switch games.

I don't see most games being an impossibility for the Switch no matter how graphically demanding people proclaim them to be.  It's more of a question of whether the game would sell enough on the Switch to justify the amount time, manpower and money that would be needed to make it possible.  Something like KH3 would definitely be worth it while something like Shadow of the Tomb Raider wouldn't.

Last edited by wombat123 - on 17 October 2018

KBG29 said:
ARM and Underpowered.

AAA games are built for X86. So not only do they have to downgrade, but they have to completely rewrite the game for ARM.

Switch is capable of running anything on PS4 and XBO with reduced fidelity, but the chances of turning a profit are slim. Had Nintendo went with X86, they would be getting a lot more titles. Unfortunately, at the time there were no good X86 options. Sony and Microsoft are set if they want to compete with Switch in the future, because Ryzen is incredibly scalable.

What handheld use x86 chip?



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The_Liquid_Laser said:

 

twintail said: 

The OP isn't saying that there aren't big games coming to Switch, but rather that only a limited number of them are.

I believe the OP said that big third party games are nearly non-existent on the Switch.  Hold on lemme check.


spurgeonryan said:

So I still occassionally check out Nintendolife.com, the nintendo reddit page and a few gaming magazines I have sent to my house regularly. Nothing seems to have changed despite how popular the Switch is right now. Big third party games are still nearly non-existent on the Switch. As far as I can tell not one of the big Holiday block busters are coming to the switch this year.

Reminds me of the Wii, except even the Wii got some of the big names. The Switch is not even getting COD, even the Wii U got COD. What is the reasoning for this now? Has Nintendo explained why this is still happening?

Yep, that's what the OP said.  And he has a point.  If you really want to play CoD, then Switch is not going to make you happy.  On the other hand if you want to play a game like Civ 6, then Switch will make you very happy.  It depends on taste.  

I personally don't play FPS games, so when I look at the PS4 the library, it looks barren to me.  I know logically that it huge library of games.  It just has nothing for me.  On the other hand I really like turn based strategy games like Civ 6.  But I can understand that the OP might be the opposite.  Maybe he doesn't like strategy games, but really needs the latest FPS or open world third-person shooter.  So to the OP, it looks like Switch has no big games compared to the other consoles.  It's really a matter of taste.

That's a weird statement. Do you think that the PS4 is some kind of an FPS haven? Sure, it gets all the big FPS titles but those are a miniscule portion of all the games. The PS library is actually the most diverse and expansive of the three, so if you can't find anything of interest in there, it's just a bias that you have. And that's fine, I'm all about single platform gaming as well, but let's not distort things here. That's like me saying Nintendo has nothing for me, because it seems to be mostly FPS games like Doom and whatnot :D



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As others have said, the Switch's specs won't likely be able to play games like Red Dead Redemption 2 or Far Cry 5. Plus, a lot of these games that have released this year or are planned for early 2019 were likely developed at the time when the Switch was a relative unknown to developers in terms of either specs-wise or sales-wise.

However, with Switch having some of the latest engines applicable, such as Unreal Engine 4, it should be able to play games like Soul Calibur VI and KHIII. In fact, part of the reason for DQXI's port development issue is because the game was playing on a more outdated version of UE4 while the Switch is running the latest version.

I'm not expecting the world for the Switch, in terms of AAA third-party games. However, I think it is possible for some developers to start taking notice on what the Switch is capable of, especially with games like DOOM, Wolfenstein, Skyrim, Dragon Ball FighterZ, Octopath Traveler, Dragon Quest Builders, Civilization VI, Diablo III, Valkyria Chronicles 1 and 4, Fortnite, Arena of Valor, and Warframe. The Switch may not have the many AAA third party games, especially from the West, but it is already establishing a very respectful library in less than 2 years of its life.



spurgeonryan said:

The Switch is not even getting COD, even the Wii U got COD. What is the reasoning for this now?

 

Has Nintendo explained why this is still happening?

Its true that Switch still dont has CoD while Wii U had two CoD games, on other hand Wii U had only Fifa and only one NBA games for instance while Switch already has two Fifa and NBA games, and same games like Skyrim, Doom, Wolf2, Dark Souls, Diablo 3, CiV6, like 8 Final Fantasy games announced...that Wii U never had. So, Switch is getting continued 3rd party support from 3rd party even that 3rd party support is still much weaker compared to XB1/PS4, and we will have more and more similar announcements and support, asome noticeable games that Switch recently received/receiving, Fortnite, Paladins, Crash Bandicoot, Cities: Skylines, Arena of Valor, Valkyria Chronicles 1/4, Warriors Orochi 4, Warframe,  Dragon Ball FighterZ, Fifa 19, NBA 19, Diablo 3, CiV6, Starlink, Team Sonic Racing..

Also, when we talking about really big 3rd party games like RDR2, CoD, AC, BF...those games require plenty of development time, all those games were in development even before become obvious that Switch will be success with strong install base. I dont saying we could see all those games on Switch, but some big 3rd party games could come to Switch, for instance CoD.

 

Why would Nintendo even try explained point that plenty of 3rd parties dont come to Switch!? Its very obvious that from plenty of aspects Switch is a quite difrent compared to XB1/PS4, not to mentione its not like first time that Nintendo dont have full 3rd party support, they didnt had full 3rd party support after SNES. So implying that Nintendo should explained that dont make sense.



Hiku said:
spurgeonryan said:

What is the reasoning for this now?

With Resident Evil 2 Remake around the corner, it just occurred to me that the last time a mainline Resident Evil game ended up on a Nintendo console was Residsent Evil 4, back in 2005.
Though Switch is getting Japanese games like Octapath Traveler and Yokai Watch, so it's still going to be popular in Japan for its third party games as well.

the remasters of 4, RE and RE:Zero were on the Wii, the HD remaster of Revelations was on the WiiU which had originally been a 3DS exclusive for the first year or so of its life.

Unless you think remakes/remasters don't count as new mainline resident evil games... but then you start your post with "resident evil 2 remake" so that should hardly be the case.

Or is there another reason those games don't count? 3DS isn't a console, it's a handheld console, Switches versions of Rev1+2 don't count as a console because it's a hybrid and not a console..... it's Wednesday?



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HoangNhatAnh said:
KBG29 said:
ARM and Underpowered.

AAA games are built for X86. So not only do they have to downgrade, but they have to completely rewrite the game for ARM.

Switch is capable of running anything on PS4 and XBO with reduced fidelity, but the chances of turning a profit are slim. Had Nintendo went with X86, they would be getting a lot more titles. Unfortunately, at the time there were no good X86 options. Sony and Microsoft are set if they want to compete with Switch in the future, because Ryzen is incredibly scalable.

What handheld use x86 chip?

Nothing yet, but Ryzen is fully capable of running in a Mobile device.

As for scalability, benchmarks have a Ryzen 2700U with Radeon Mobile chip at 12 - 25W only trailing the Ryzen 2500X at 65W buy 33%. They are both 4 Core/8 Thread Ryzen chips. 

https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/AMD-Ryzen-7-2700U-vs-AMD-Ryzen-5-2500X/m432558vsm567224

Compair that with an Athlon 5350 vs Ryzen 3 2200G and it is 209% faster. This is a (4) core version of the CPU in the PS4 at 2.05GHz vs 1.6GHz, up agaist a (4) core Ryzen chip. The Jaguar is a 25W chip and the Ryzen chip is 45 - 65W. 

https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/AMD-Ryzen-3-2200G-vs-AMD-Athlon-5350-APU-R3/m441832vsm10020

If you look at Ryzen Mobile vs Jaguar, 12 - 25W vs 25W you get 124% increase, and that is with (2) Cores/ (4) Threads on Ryzen, vs (4) Cores on Jaguar.

https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/AMD-Ryzen-3-2300U-vs-AMD-Athlon-5350-APU-R3/m511816vsm10020

Looking at the most high end chip that could go in PS5 Ryzen 2700 8 Core/16 Threads 65W vs Ryzen 2700U 4 Cores/8 Threads, the effective processing gap is only 55%. 

https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/AMD-Ryzen-3-2300U-vs-AMD-Athlon-5350-APU-R3/m511816vsm10020

As we move to 7nm, 7nm+ and beyond, the gap will only close. Microsoft and Sony will both very likely be using Ryzen on PS5 and XB4, making it extremely easy to deliver a Mobile version of the systems.

I think Nintendo's decision to go with ARM and Nvidia has left the door wide open for Microsoft and Sony to grab the market anytime in the future. With Game Pass and PS Now, or via Digital, they can offer all their 1st party titles, and all 3rd party titles across Home and Mobile for one purchase. 



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First, some people need to realise that Switch is a quite different compared to XB1/PS4 in plenty of aspects, going from:

-hybrid concept

-power and architecture

-time of release and install base (that's rapidly shrinking when we comparing it to XB1, and next year probably Switch will have bigger install base)

-point that most of 3rd partys didnt released their big 3rd party games on Nintendo platform from SNES, and that Switch come out after failed Wii U where plenty of 3rd parties burned.

So, only with that on mind its very obvious why Switch still dont have strong 3rd party support when we talking about big 3rd party games, and why most likely never will have strong 3rd party support (at least compared to XB1/PS4, but can be strong for Nintendo platform) when we talking about big 3rd party games 

With all that on mind, its obvious that Switch is not best suited for current gen big 3rd party games, that doesnt mean that Switch will not have any current gen big 3rd party game, but it means that people need to have realistic expectations when we talking about big 3rd party games on Switch and espacily when comparing that support to XB1/PS4.



Saying that, actually Switch for now has solid and positive 3rd party support for Nintendo platform, for instance we never before (or at least very long ago) had games like Skyrim, Doom, Wolf2, Diablo, CiV, mainline Final Fantasy games (even if we talk about last gens ports)...and thats very positive.

Also, some people need to realise that big 3rd party games takes time for development, all this years big 3rd party games were way back in development before it was very obvious that Switch will be successful platform with strong install base (IMO that become obvious at beginning of this year), for instance RDR2 is something like 7 years in development, so that's definitely one of reasons why Switch still dont have some big 3rd party games.

Second reason is that current size/availability/costs of Switch carts are problem for some 3rd parties, especially when we talk about big 3rd party games that would need 32GB or even 64GB carts. Vern (know insider from Resetera that knows plenty inside informations when comes to 3rd party project for Switch) said that he know that some unannounced 3rd party games are delayed because problem of size/availability/costs of carts. But luckily, WSJ reported that Switch will receive 64GB cards in 2019. and logically in same time we can expect that prices for 32GB and lower sizes will go down also.

So with all that on mind, Switch continue getting increased 3rd party support and I expecting more big 3rd party games than we had this year in any case.
I actually made a thread before, that Switch will have best 3rd party support than any Nintendo platform after SNES, and I still stand behind that, especially after last Direct announcements.

Last edited by Miyamotoo - on 17 October 2018