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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Why is the Switch still not getting big games from 3rd parties? October edition

trent44 on 19 October 2018

PS4/XB1 games that have been in development for 3+ years now are obviously not going to be on Nintendo Switch day and date until there has been enough time for the development pipelines to get caught up. (namely, after such multiplatform titles were even greenlit for Nintendo Switch, which many might have not even been until early 2018)

Once the Nintendo Switch user base passes 40+ million, the switch cards come down in production costs, and teams have had time to catch up on projects, etc. there will be a much larger amount of games that come than what we are seeing now.

Now, all of that said, third party publishers have missed on some opportunities so far for sure. The most obvious stuff that could have been ported to the Switch in a much more timely manner has been quite sparse (not totally absent, but much much less than it could be).

Ports from 3DS and Vita should be much more numerous than they are by now. Yes, ports like Monster Hunter GU, Azure Strikers, Code of Princess, Retro City Rampage, Dragon Quest Builders, Ys VIII, etc. exist on the Nintendo Switch, but that is a very small amount of games considering how many more would be a good fit to up-port in a timely fashion (which would be profitable in the short term, and more importantly, help to establish a base to sell new entries to). Especially considering the Nintendo Switch has already outsold the Vita's lifetime sales (and will continue to do so several times over), is more capable in hardware and middleware engine support than both 3DS and Vita, and software sales keep climbing, etc.

And then, PS3/360 ports (again not totally absent, but very sparse compared to what it could be by now). Nintendo Switch, with larger performance and RAM overhead compared to PS3/360, do not need Panic Button’s level of porting expertise. That stuff can be outsourced to other developers for sure. I'm not talking asset remastered versions of these games, just porting the PS3/360 games with their current assets.

And yes, those ports take time, but after 19 months? There could certainly be more at least ANNOUNCED (with or without a trailer) by now.

So, so many sleeping at the wheel… I guess the silver lining is that a lot of indie studios are growing thanks to filling the gaps left open.

It will be interesting so see how and in what direction things change as the Nintendo Switch user base keeps growing.



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Miyamotoo on 19 October 2018
potato_hamster said:
TheBraveGallade said:
Another factor to remember that while Sony doesn't compete that much against triple A third parties themselves, allowing them to shine and pushing the games as system sellers, a third party realesingvon a Nintendo platform has to fight an uphill battle VS ninty's own IPs for attention of the audience. You going to realese a JRPG as a Dev? Sorry, but mist switch owners will gravitate towards XC2 first. Racing? Mario kart. FPS? Splatoon

Perhaps you should look up the sales of first party PS4 games. The results might surprise you. Sony first party titles are selling higher than most Nintendo IPs all while third party sales are thriving, and they have multiple genres covered in their first party offerings. This seems like a pretty silly argument.

What? Maybe some IP when we talk about PS4 sales, offcourse that some 1st party Sony games will sell better than some Nintendo Switch games when PS4 has 4x bigger install base than Switch, but actually if you look sales through attach rate, Nintendo Switch games destroy Sony PS4 games in sales. Also when you talk about PS4 and Switch sales games, 9/10 of best selling PS4 games are 3rd party games, 10/10 best selling Switch games are Nintendo games.



Alby_da_Wolf on 19 October 2018
trent44 said:

PS4/XB1 games that have been in development for 3+ years now are obviously not going to be on Nintendo Switch day and date until there has been enough time for the development pipelines to get caught up. (namely, after such multiplatform titles were even greenlit for Nintendo Switch, which many might have not even been until early 2018)

Once the Nintendo Switch user base passes 40+ million, the switch cards come down in production costs, and teams have had time to catch up on projects, etc. there will be a much larger amount of games that come than what we are seeing now.

Now, all of that said, third party publishers have missed on some opportunities so far for sure. The most obvious stuff that could have been ported to the Switch in a much more timely manner has been quite sparse (not totally absent, but much much less than it could be).

Ports from 3DS and Vita should be much more numerous than they are by now. Yes, ports like Monster Hunter GU, Azure Strikers, Code of Princess, Retro City Rampage, Dragon Quest Builders, Ys VIII, etc. exist on the Nintendo Switch, but that is a very small amount of games considering how many more would be a good fit to up-port in a timely fashion (which would be profitable in the short term, and more importantly, help to establish a base to sell new entries to). Especially considering the Nintendo Switch has already outsold the Vita's lifetime sales (and will continue to do so several times over), is more capable in hardware and middleware engine support than both 3DS and Vita, and software sales keep climbing, etc.

And then, PS3/360 ports (again not totally absent, but very sparse compared to what it could be by now). Nintendo Switch, with larger performance and RAM overhead compared to PS3/360, do not need Panic Button’s level of porting expertise. That stuff can be outsourced to other developers for sure. I'm not talking asset remastered versions of these games, just porting the PS3/360 games with their current assets.

And yes, those ports take time, but after 19 months? There could certainly be more at least ANNOUNCED (with or without a trailer) by now.

So, so many sleeping at the wheel… I guess the silver lining is that a lot of indie studios are growing thanks to filling the gaps left open.

It will be interesting so see how and in what direction things change as the Nintendo Switch user base keeps growing.

It could happen that many devs then choose to develop for NS first, and port easily and with little costs to  more powerful platforms. AAA games would additionally receive true HD textures, NPCs, creatures and objects for the more powerful consoles versions, AA could possibly receive them only where it could be noticed most, while lower cost games would just have scaled up graphics for the most powerful consoles.



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A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW!   


Kai_Mao on 19 October 2018
potato_hamster said:
TheBraveGallade said:
Another factor to remember that while Sony doesn't compete that much against triple A third parties themselves, allowing them to shine and pushing the games as system sellers, a third party realesingvon a Nintendo platform has to fight an uphill battle VS ninty's own IPs for attention of the audience. You going to realese a JRPG as a Dev? Sorry, but mist switch owners will gravitate towards XC2 first. Racing? Mario kart. FPS? Splatoon

Perhaps you should look up the sales of first party PS4 games. The results might surprise you. Sony first party titles are selling higher than most Nintendo IPs all while third party sales are thriving, and they have multiple genres covered in their first party offerings. This seems like a pretty silly argument.

It’s also nice that PS4’s userbase is up 4:1 on Switch.



potato_hamster on 19 October 2018
trent44 said:

PS4/XB1 games that have been in development for 3+ years now are obviously not going to be on Nintendo Switch day and date until there has been enough time for the development pipelines to get caught up. (namely, after such multiplatform titles were even greenlit for Nintendo Switch, which many might have not even been until early 2018)

Once the Nintendo Switch user base passes 40+ million, the switch cards come down in production costs, and teams have had time to catch up on projects, etc. there will be a much larger amount of games that come than what we are seeing now.

Now, all of that said, third party publishers have missed on some opportunities so far for sure. The most obvious stuff that could have been ported to the Switch in a much more timely manner has been quite sparse (not totally absent, but much much less than it could be).

Ports from 3DS and Vita should be much more numerous than they are by now. Yes, ports like Monster Hunter GU, Azure Strikers, Code of Princess, Retro City Rampage, Dragon Quest Builders, Ys VIII, etc. exist on the Nintendo Switch, but that is a very small amount of games considering how many more would be a good fit to up-port in a timely fashion (which would be profitable in the short term, and more importantly, help to establish a base to sell new entries to). Especially considering the Nintendo Switch has already outsold the Vita's lifetime sales (and will continue to do so several times over), is more capable in hardware and middleware engine support than both 3DS and Vita, and software sales keep climbing, etc.

And then, PS3/360 ports (again not totally absent, but very sparse compared to what it could be by now). Nintendo Switch, with larger performance and RAM overhead compared to PS3/360, do not need Panic Button’s level of porting expertise. That stuff can be outsourced to other developers for sure. I'm not talking asset remastered versions of these games, just porting the PS3/360 games with their current assets.

And yes, those ports take time, but after 19 months? There could certainly be more at least ANNOUNCED (with or without a trailer) by now.

So, so many sleeping at the wheel… I guess the silver lining is that a lot of indie studios are growing thanks to filling the gaps left open.

It will be interesting so see how and in what direction things change as the Nintendo Switch user base keeps growing.

The problem is once the carts get cheaper, and the sales get high enough... The PS5 and Xbox 4 will be out, which meams porting the latest games will be even more tedious and difficult. So ad time goes on, I'd reckon you're less likely to see ports of the latest and greatest, not more.



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potato_hamster on 19 October 2018
Kai_Mao said:
potato_hamster said:

Perhaps you should look up the sales of first party PS4 games. The results might surprise you. Sony first party titles are selling higher than most Nintendo IPs all while third party sales are thriving, and they have multiple genres covered in their first party offerings. This seems like a pretty silly argument.

It’s also nice that PS4’s userbase is up 4:1 on Switch.

Wii U total sales:  ~14 million

Retail sales:
Mario Kart 8:  7.7M
New Super Mario Bros U: 5.6M
Super Smash Bros. U: 5.1M
Splatoon: 4.7M

Switch total sales: ~20M

Retail Sales:
Mario Odyssey: 10M
Mario Kart 8 Deluxe: 9.2M
Breath of the Wild: 7.8M
Spatoon 2: 6M

Using the userbase as an excuse why games aren't selling as well on a Nintendo platform as they would on others is complete nonsense. Nintendo has continuously demonstrated that you don't need a huge userbase to have huge sales.



Jumpin on 19 October 2018
Kai_Mao said:
potato_hamster said:

Perhaps you should look up the sales of first party PS4 games. The results might surprise you. Sony first party titles are selling higher than most Nintendo IPs all while third party sales are thriving, and they have multiple genres covered in their first party offerings. This seems like a pretty silly argument.

It’s also nice that PS4’s userbase is up 4:1 on Switch.

And is 5 years old instead of 1.5 years old.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Jumpin on 19 October 2018
potato_hamster said:
Kai_Mao said:

It’s also nice that PS4’s userbase is up 4:1 on Switch.

Wii U total sales:  ~14 million

Retail sales:
Mario Kart 8:  7.7M
New Super Mario Bros U: 5.6M
Super Smash Bros. U: 5.1M
Splatoon: 4.7M

Switch total sales: ~20M

Retail Sales:
Mario Odyssey: 10M
Mario Kart 8 Deluxe: 9.2M
Breath of the Wild: 7.8M
Spatoon 2: 6M

Using the userbase as an excuse why games aren't selling as well on a Nintendo platform as they would on others is complete nonsense. Nintendo has continuously demonstrated that you don't need a huge userbase to have huge sales.


I'd say userbase counts for something, and when Switch has it, its games will also be significantly higher in sales.

Wii total sales: 102M

Wii Sports: 82M
Mario Kart Wii: 36M
Wii Sports Resort: 33M
New Super Mario Bros Wii: 29M



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

potato_hamster on 19 October 2018
Jumpin said:
potato_hamster said:

Wii U total sales:  ~14 million

Retail sales:
Mario Kart 8:  7.7M
New Super Mario Bros U: 5.6M
Super Smash Bros. U: 5.1M
Splatoon: 4.7M

Switch total sales: ~20M

Retail Sales:
Mario Odyssey: 10M
Mario Kart 8 Deluxe: 9.2M
Breath of the Wild: 7.8M
Spatoon 2: 6M

Using the userbase as an excuse why games aren't selling as well on a Nintendo platform as they would on others is complete nonsense. Nintendo has continuously demonstrated that you don't need a huge userbase to have huge sales.


I'd say userbase counts for something, and when Switch has it, its games will also be significantly higher in sales.

Wii total sales: 102M

Wii Sports: 82M
Mario Kart Wii: 36M
Wii Sports Resort: 33M
New Super Mario Bros Wii: 29M

Okay, but what does that have to do with the price of tea in China? The argument being made is that third party games aren't selling well, and incapable of selling well because the user base isn't big enough. Clearly the Switch's user base is big enough to have numerous games with over 4 million in sales, so that means the user base is big enough for any game, especially those that are selling millions on other platforms to sell millions on the switch.

Let me put it to you this way. Do you think GTA V or Red Dead Redemption 2 would only sell 1.1 million units on Switch like the best selling multi-platform game (FIFA) has?



Kai_Mao on 19 October 2018

N

potato_hamster said:
Kai_Mao said:

It’s also nice that PS4’s userbase is up 4:1 on Switch.

Wii U total sales:  ~14 million

Retail sales:
Mario Kart 8:  7.7M
New Super Mario Bros U: 5.6M
Super Smash Bros. U: 5.1M
Splatoon: 4.7M

Switch total sales: ~20M

Retail Sales:
Mario Odyssey: 10M
Mario Kart 8 Deluxe: 9.2M
Breath of the Wild: 7.8M
Spatoon 2: 6M

Using the userbase as an excuse why games aren't selling as well on a Nintendo platform as they would on others is complete nonsense. Nintendo has continuously demonstrated that you don't need a huge userbase to have huge sales.

That kinda buffers my point. Who knows how much more these Nintendo games will sell once the user base grows to say 40-60 million. Mario Odyssey can then beat out even the highest selling Sony first party game, whether it be Uncharted 4, Spider-Man, or the Last of Us. Then you got Pokemon and Smash Bros. on the way along with games like Animal Crossing that have garnered sales that most of Sony’s first party games (or most games in general) would dream of.