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Locked: Was Hitler a Socialist?

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I think it's a manipulation and an obvious attempt to brainwash people, when as the basis of proving that National Socialists weren't socialist one "tackles" someone like Crowder. Why not take on the Nobel Prize winner prof. Friedrich von Hayek and his "Road to Serfdom"? A book considered to be among the absolute top most important non-fiction books of the 20th century, in which he bluntly explains why neither Communism, Fascism nor National Socialism have anything to do with the right side of the political spectrum and all share a common socialist root. I guess the left prefers to be hush-hush on this issue and not tackle something they know they can't hope to win against.

In fact, even in the response video (which makes some absolutely ridiculous statesments, btw.) in the OP at 36:41 to 37:37 we can see a quote that to me shows Hitler was a socialist. The problem of this nomenclature, though, is that to a modern left-wing person, one can be called a socialist only when he's Trocki or to the left of him. Everyone to the right of Trocki isn't a socialist, or a "real socialist" ("No true Scotsman", anyone?). So since even Stalin, Lenin, Xi, Mao or Pol Pot aren't "real socialists", thus aren't socialists at all, it's no wonder they reject Hitler as a socialist as well. On the other hand, people on the right see that what Hitler did doesn't really differ from what Stalin, Lenin and the rest of the bunch did and this is where they draw the line. Not what you claim to be doing, but what you are effectively doing.

I for one see no difference between Stalin having nationalized companies and telling them what to do and Hitler keeping the companies private, but relegating a party member to supervise and tell the owner what to do or pack his bags and go to a concentration camp. To me both models fall within socialism, but for left-wing people (like the author of that video) aparently there is a major difference here somewhere that justifies pushing National Socialism to the other side of the spectrum.
Stealing a company by nationalization vs taking money by privatization with keeping a man with a gun to the new owner's head makes for left and right wing? Lol. Laughable, but whatever.

I personally stick to Hayek. Being one of the smartest men of the 20th century on top of personally witnessing the birth of National Socialism makes you qualified to judge it.
Also, I think that putting Fascism next to Communism or National Socialism is simply wrong. Fascism wasn't anywhere near as bad as these two sick ideologies. In fact, I think it's the "least bad" out of all totalitarian or authoritarian regimes ever. The only reason it's been demonized and is commonly referred to as the ultimate evil is that Fascists defeated Communists in a number of countries and Communist propaganda is brainwashing us as part of their vengeance on Fascists. Comparing the number of victims of Fascism (less than 0.5% of the victims of Communism) or the social and economic impact both ideologies have on their countries (impressive economic growth in Spain and Portugal, or Chile being the wealthiest Latin American country to this day), fascism was innocent, almost ok.
While I'm high on Hayek's ilk and personal freedom, if you asked me to pick between living in a country run by one the three ideologies, I wouldn't hesitate one bit.



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epicurean said:
SpokenTruth said:

I'm having to post this again.  Why?

Also, North Korea is called the Democratic Peoples Republic of North Korea.  Does that mean they are Democratic?  Does that mean they are a Republic?  Does that mean they are for the people? 

You're the most right person in this thread. Except me, of course. But you're very close.

Everyone just wants to assign him to their enemy so they can say "We can't follow (insert), he's just like Hitler! The next Hitler won't be Hitler, anyway, he'll be something else entirely. You don't have to believe in the master Aryan race to kill a crap load of people and try and take over the world.

There's a good reason why SpokenTruth gets ignored. There's nothing baseless about aligning Hitler with the far-right, because his nationalism and push towards one simple answer for all kinds of problems is exactly what the far-right stands for. Of course the modern far-right won't be doing exactly the same things that Hitler did, but the underlying principles are the same.

Brexit is a good of example of modern far-right thinking where nationalism combined with one simple answer now leaves people dumbfounded why they voted for a Brexit in the first place. Brexit was sold to them as something that would improve their quality of life, because EU membership of the UK was supposedly one big disadvantage.

Aligning Hitler with the far-right is not a statement that the far-left are the good guys, it's merely performing a logical analysis of history.



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Hitler was a good man. His hard work will be missed.

 

Reinstating permanent ban -Raven

Last edited by Raven - on 10 October 2018

RolStoppable said:
epicurean said:

You're the most right person in this thread. Except me, of course. But you're very close.

Everyone just wants to assign him to their enemy so they can say "We can't follow (insert), he's just like Hitler! The next Hitler won't be Hitler, anyway, he'll be something else entirely. You don't have to believe in the master Aryan race to kill a crap load of people and try and take over the world.

There's a good reason why SpokenTruth gets ignored. There's nothing baseless about aligning Hitler with the far-right, because his nationalism and push towards one simple answer for all kinds of problems is exactly what the far-right stands for. Of course the modern far-right won't be doing exactly the same things that Hitler did, but the underlying principles are the same.

Brexit is a good of example of modern far-right thinking where nationalism combined with one simple answer now leaves people dumbfounded why they voted for a Brexit in the first place. Brexit was sold to them as something that would improve their quality of life, because EU membership of the UK was supposedly one big disadvantage.

Aligning Hitler with the far-right is not a statement that the far-left are the good guys, it's merely performing a logical analysis of history.

There is a lot of difference between the "far right" and Hitler. Let me know when the far right wants to confiscate all the guns.

Does anyone on the "right" even consider them the "far/alt right"? Just wondering what gives them that label.



Owner of PS4 Pro, Xbox One, Switch, PS Vita, and 3DS

RolStoppable said:
epicurean said:

You're the most right person in this thread. Except me, of course. But you're very close.

Everyone just wants to assign him to their enemy so they can say "We can't follow (insert), he's just like Hitler! The next Hitler won't be Hitler, anyway, he'll be something else entirely. You don't have to believe in the master Aryan race to kill a crap load of people and try and take over the world.

There's a good reason why SpokenTruth gets ignored. There's nothing baseless about aligning Hitler with the far-right, because his nationalism and push towards one simple answer for all kinds of problems is exactly what the far-right stands for. Of course the modern far-right won't be doing exactly the same things that Hitler did, but the underlying principles are the same.

Brexit is a good of example of modern far-right thinking where nationalism combined with one simple answer now leaves people dumbfounded why they voted for a Brexit in the first place. Brexit was sold to them as something that would improve their quality of life, because EU membership of the UK was supposedly one big disadvantage.

Aligning Hitler with the far-right is not a statement that the far-left are the good guys, it's merely performing a logical analysis of history.

Right.

The push towards one simple answer for all kinds of problems is far-right? Hmm... How did it go? "The solution to all the problems of the European Union is more European Union" - I guess EU is a far-right organization Or maybe that's just a regular tool in politics used everywhere and your "logical analysis of history" and "underlying principle" claim is a load of crap? Naaahh... That'd be too easy...

UK will benefit from Brexit in the long term, I have no doubt about that and I envy them for it.

Also, nationalism isn't right wing. There was national bolshevism, the regime of Chavez and Maduro were also very nationalistic, yet I doubt anyone is going to call them far-right

 

Hitler wasn't right wing. Sorry. Socialism is cancer - in any way, shape or form.



Wii U is a GCN 2 - I called it months before the release!

My Vita to-buy list: The Walking Dead, Persona 4 Golden, Need for Speed: Most Wanted, TearAway, Ys: Memories of Celceta, Muramasa: The Demon Blade, History: Legends of War, FIFA 13, Final Fantasy HD X, X-2, Worms Revolution Extreme, The Amazing Spiderman, Batman: Arkham Origins Blackgate - too many no-gaemz :/

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epicurean said:

There is a lot of difference between the "far right" and Hitler. Let me know when the far right wants to confiscate all the guns.

Does anyone on the "right" even consider them the "far/alt right"? Just wondering what gives them that label.

I think you are viewing this in a USA-only context, hence that comment about confiscating guns.

From my experience, people on the right who are far-right or alt-right (the latter being a USA thing) are usually opposed to being called far-right, because they have enough of a grasp of this world that they know that the far-right is scum. Because of that, they usually engage in mental gymnastics and try to explain how their nationalism is nothing more than pride of their own country and culture. There's no reason to believe them though, either because their actions already contradict their words or because they don't do anything of substance to distance themselves clearly from widely known far-right groups.

Defining characteristics of the far-right are nationalism and easy solutions to complex problems ("Our country will be great once all the immigrants are gone."), plus the attitude that everyone who doesn't agree with something they said must be automatically against them. The latter is also a defining characteristic of the far-left, because extremism is what makes people think in only black or white terms.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Gamers Club

RolStoppable said:
epicurean said:

You're the most right person in this thread. Except me, of course. But you're very close.

Everyone just wants to assign him to their enemy so they can say "We can't follow (insert), he's just like Hitler! The next Hitler won't be Hitler, anyway, he'll be something else entirely. You don't have to believe in the master Aryan race to kill a crap load of people and try and take over the world.

There's a good reason why SpokenTruth gets ignored. There's nothing baseless about aligning Hitler with the far-right, because his nationalism and push towards one simple answer for all kinds of problems is exactly what the far-right stands for. Of course the modern far-right won't be doing exactly the same things that Hitler did, but the underlying principles are the same.

Brexit is a good of example of modern far-right thinking where nationalism combined with one simple answer now leaves people dumbfounded why they voted for a Brexit in the first place. Brexit was sold to them as something that would improve their quality of life, because EU membership of the UK was supposedly one big disadvantage.

Aligning Hitler with the far-right is not a statement that the far-left are the good guys, it's merely performing a logical analysis of history.

You surprise me again.  I didn't know you were capable of such straight up logic.  People don't know how to discern degrees of intensity (which you already explained) so thats why we have a topic where people equate Hitler with socialism.   As if you are either anti-socialist or a Nazi.... and there no other schools of thought.  Or people just completely misidentify Nationalism.  But yes, Nationalism seeks to take complex issues and simplifies it under an 'us vs them' argument.  If we build this wall... the jobs come back.  Well, anyone with a post elementary school education realizes this tactic.  I will argue that while this is this brand of fear mongering is clearly identified as 'right-wing'  the tactic itself proceeds the political wing concept.  I mean, if we are being honest, Nationalism is basically the concept of sowing racism and exploiting that in the population for political gain.  And even more basic and older than that is leading through fear.  And to come full circle, yes, the far-right is know for using the same tactics of Hitler (minus the genocide most of the time) and others.   Nationalism is a far right concept. 



epicurean said:

Does anyone on the "right" even consider them the "far/alt right"? Just wondering what gives them that label.

There's definitely more than a few people online who consider themselves to be part of the "alt-right" and openly identify as such, though there doesn't seem to be any universally accepted definition of what the alt-right actually is, other than being to the right of most mainstream Republicans.



OlfinBedwere said:
epicurean said:

Does anyone on the "right" even consider them the "far/alt right"? Just wondering what gives them that label.

There's definitely more than a few people online who consider themselves to be part of the "alt-right" and openly identify as such, though there doesn't seem to be any universally accepted definition of what the alt-right actually is, other than being to the right of most mainstream Republicans.

But what makes them "right" wing at all? Nationalism isn't specific to left or right wing. The previous posts of fear-mongering being a right wing tactic is....off base. I think I'll just go back to Hitler is Hitler, and everyone wants to make their political opponent Hitler, which is pretty easy to do because he did whatever it took to get total control.



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CosmicSex said:

Nationalism is a far right concept. 

So please explain national bolshevism and Venezuela under Chavez and Maduro. The Eastern Block also became quite nationalistic and at times had extremely nationalistic policies resulting in genocide and mass resettlements based solely on one's nationality - evident by the homogeneousness of post-socialist countries, which weren't this homogenous at the start of the 20th century.

Or just face reality and stop this nonsense. Just because Trocki's Communism is international doesn't magically send nationalism to the right.



Wii U is a GCN 2 - I called it months before the release!

My Vita to-buy list: The Walking Dead, Persona 4 Golden, Need for Speed: Most Wanted, TearAway, Ys: Memories of Celceta, Muramasa: The Demon Blade, History: Legends of War, FIFA 13, Final Fantasy HD X, X-2, Worms Revolution Extreme, The Amazing Spiderman, Batman: Arkham Origins Blackgate - too many no-gaemz :/

My consoles: PS2 Slim, PS3 Slim 320 GB, PSV 32 GB, Wii, DSi.