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Forums - General Discussion - ‘Rape Culture’ Is A MYTH | Change My Mind

Technically ive been "sexually assaulted" a few times from a few of my inner friends that are girls. Ive had my ass slapped and grabbed numerous times without my consent and the second I say im going to the same thing to them they run away. I only see it as a game though but im not in their heads I dont know if they really want to grope me or anything because its not the way I think nor do I really care. Rape is a different story obviously.



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setsunatenshi said:
eva01beserk said:

Like I said before, these people have no argument. They express their feeling but no actual facts when they have nothing of worth to say. 

I also believe its a strategy the feminist started using that Since men cant experience what they feel during rape, then they cant argue with them about how they think its worst thing in the world. Even worst than murder. Its a way to shut down an argument by saying basically they cant weigh in since they dont have the experience. Like the no uterus no opinion on abortion thing.  

I was kind of with you on the argument until you brought in the abortion thing to misrepresent the pro choice principle. It's not like you can't have an opinion on abortion, but the principle of self determination overwhelms your opinions on it. It's 100% a woman's choice how she intends to use her body and no one can impose the physical drain of carrying anything within her body against her will.

 

Her body, her choice, period. 

Kind of depends on what rights you give to a foetus. If you see it as a self aware human being with a reactive nervous system you could argue that this fetus should share the same rights as any other human. I agree the male who inpregnated het should not have a say in this. But the legal system definitely should  have a say in this, same goes with Euthanasie. 

The juridical argument is a very solid argument against abortion. Since it does not question what a women should do, but which rights a self aware unborn has. Abortion is in fact killing a human being from 13 weeks and onward since it is actually self aware.

I am pro choice until 13 weeks, but after that period aborting a child is basically murder. From that point you don't kill a few cells which are building towards something, but you are in fact killing something that could be described as an individual.

Nobody should be allowed to kill another self aware human being willingly (even if it is a foetus). Whether or not said person is a woman or not is irrelevant. If a guy causes a woman to misscariage, by an act if violenence hé also should be charged for killing another human being. 

Last edited by Qwark - on 08 October 2018

Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

As always, the "Change My Mind" format is awful and not conducive to its so called mission statement. If he actually wanted to have his mind changed, he would schedule a debate with an academic who wrote on the subject, not argue with random college students who clearly are not well enough versed on the subject.

It is an exercise in validation. Argue with a bunch of people who don't have the tools to provide counter-arguments so you can feel good about how smart and right you are.

I have little to add to the actual question right now ("rape culture" is so vague and poorly defined that to argue about it is functionally meaningless imo), but the format is a farce.



SpokenTruth said:

Jackson Katz, a social researcher, asked men what they do on a daily basis to avoid being sexually assaulted. Then he asked women.

 

 

  • Rape culture is when women who come forward are questioned about what they were wearing.
  • Rape culture is when survivors who come forward are asked, “Were you drinking?”
  • Rape culture is when people say, “she was asking for it.”
  • Rape culture is when we teach women how to not get raped, instead of teaching men not to rape.
  • Rape culture is when the lyrics of Robin Thicke’s ‘Blurred Lines’ mirror the words of actual rapists and was the number one song in the country.
  • Rape culture is when the mainstream media mourns the end of the convicted Steubenville rapists’ football careers and does not mention the young girl who was victimized.
  • Rape culture is when cyberbullies take pictures of sexual assaults and harass their victims online after the fact, which in the cases of Audrie Pott and Rehtaeh Parsons tragically ended in their suicides.
  • Rape culture is when, in 31 states, rapists can legally sue for child custody if the rape results in pregnancy.
  • Rape culture is when college campus advisers tasked with supporting the student body, shame survivors who report their rapes. (Annie Clark, a campus activist, says an administrator at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill told her when she reported her rape, “Well… Rape is like football, if you look back on the game, and you’re the quarterback, Annie… is there anything you would have done differently?”)
  • Rape culture is when colleges are more concerned with getting sued by assailants than in supporting survivors. (Or at Occidental College, where students and administrators who advocated for survivors were terrorized for speaking out against the school’s insufficient reporting procedures.)

 

3. A judge who sentenced only 30 days in jail to a 50-year-old man who raped a 14-year-old girl (who later committed suicide), and defended that the girl was “older than her chronological age.”

4. Mothers who blame girls for posting sexy selfies and leading their sons into sin, instead of talking with their sons about their responsibility for their own sexual expression.

6. Supporting athletes who are charged with rape and calling their victims career-destroyers.

7. Companies that create decals of a woman bound and gagged in order to “promote their business.”

8. People who believe that girls “allow themselves to be raped.”

9. Journalists who substitute the word “sex” for “rape” – as if they’re the same thing.

10. Politicians distinguishing “legitimate rape” and stating that rape is “something that God intended to happen,” among other horrendous claims.

11. Calling college students who have the courage to report their rapes liars.

12. The ubiquity of street harassment – and how victims are told that they’re “overreacting” when they call it out.

13. Victims not being taken seriously when they report rapes to their university campuses.

14. Rape jokes – and people who defend them.

15. Sexual assault prevention education programs that focus on women being told to take measures to prevent rape instead of men being told not to rape.

16. The victimization of hospital patients, especially people with mental health issues and the elderly,  by the very people who are there to protect them.

17. Reddit threads with titles like “You just have to make sure she’s dead” when linking to the story of a 13-year-old girl in Pakistan being raped and buried alive.

18. Reddit threads dedicated to men causing women pain during sex (I’m not going to give the thread credence by linking to it).

19. Twitter hashtags that support accused rapists and blame victims.

20. Publicly defending celebrities accused of rape just because they’re celebrities and ignoring or denouncing what the victim has to say.

21. Assuming that false reporting for sexual assault cases are the norm, when in reality, they’re only 2-8%, which is on par with grand theft auto.

22. Only 3% of rapists ever serving a day in jail.

23. Women feeling less safe walking the streets at night than men do.

24. 1-in-5 women and 1-in-71 men having reported experiencing rape.

25. The fact that we have to condition ourselves not to use violent language in our everyday conversations.

 

We have a rape culture when the first thing we consider about the rape victim is why didn't they do something to prevent it and the first thing we consider about the alleged rapist is how this will impact his future.

 

Is your mind changed yet?

"19. Twitter hashtags that support accused rapists and blame victims."

What if someone like Sherita Dixon Cole is hit with hashtags? Is it also rape culture to falsely accuse an officer with rape and have others believe without a grain of skepticism? People like Shaun King who have considerable influence?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSJdb_WZ5uc

I certainly hope so.



Qwark said:
setsunatenshi said:

I was kind of with you on the argument until you brought in the abortion thing to misrepresent the pro choice principle. It's not like you can't have an opinion on abortion, but the principle of self determination overwhelms your opinions on it. It's 100% a woman's choice how she intends to use her body and no one can impose the physical drain of carrying anything within her body against her will.

 

Her body, her choice, period. 

Kind of depends on what rights you give to a foetus. If you see it as a self aware human being with a reactive nervous system you could argue that this fetus should share the same rights as any other human. I agree the male who inpregnated het should not have a say in this. But the legal system definitely should  have a say in this, same goes with Euthanasie. 

The juridical argument is a very solid argument against abortion. Since it does not question what a women should do, but which rights a self aware unborn has. Abortion is in fact killing a human being from 13 weeks and onward since it is actually self aware.

I am pro choice until 13 weeks, but after that period aborting a child is basically murder. From that point you don't kill a few cells which are building towards something, but you are in fact killing something that could be described as an individual.

Nobody should be allowed to kill another self aware human being willingly (even if it is a foetus). Whether or not said person is a woman or not is irrelevant. If a guy causes a woman to misscariage, by an act if violenence hé also should be charged for killing another human being. 

I agree same rights should be given to all humans. So if you take it to the logical conclusion, the woman is able to sustain her life without sucking it out of the potential child. The potential child, on the other hand, is not able to sustain itself without literally leaching life out of the woman that carries it, therefore the right of the woman to self determine what sucks the life out of her body is 100 times out of 100 the most important right to uphold. You literally can't force someone to hurt their own body to sustain another. If that was the case you would make it that a court could order you to donate a kidney if that could save another human's life. No one makes that argument because it's obviously absurd, so how can it be valid for the anti choice crowd? 

 

We don't even need to get to the point that 1 of those beings is actually conscient, thinking and able to make decisions, while the other is literally not existing as a person yet. 



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It’s a myth in the US at least. We look down on rapists and prosecute them. There’s nothing cultural here that results in us encouraging or ignoring rapists.

You can blame the #metoo movement for a majority of the doubt and negativity surrounding accusers nowadays. Look at the Aziz situation, a woman went out with him, engaged willingly in a sexual encounter, never once said no or removed herself from the situation, and then later accused him of sexual assault for basically not being able to read her mind. You have a bad hookup and it’s sexual assault. It’s dumb.

Unfortunately it’s a hard crime to prove and a lot of the time it happens under dubious circumstances like drinking, parties, etc. It’s not something like theft or assault.



SpokenTruth said:
eva01beserk said:

And I claim bullshit on that. Or because you might know one you project we must all know one? I know the left does this a lot. Wich is why a lot of prominent male feminist are having many sexual asault cases being brought up.

How about my case, I dont know a single women who has been asaulted, but I know men who have been false acused. But you dont see me  claiming theres an epidemic or a false acusation culture. So why dont you present some Mighty evidence with your insane assumption.  Because we have police reports that say you are wrong.

I'll paste part of my post you missed.  (even if they haven't told you about it).

Here are a few links to some statistics that I'm sure you'll ignore, attempt to refute, claim are lies, etc...
http://www.joyfulheartfoundation.org/learn/sexual-assault-and-rape/about-issue/who-does-sexual-assault-affect
https://www.rainn.org/statistics/victims-sexual-violence
https://www.vox.com/identities/2018/2/21/17036438/sexual-harassment-me-too-assault-hollywood
https://cdn.iwastesomuchtime.com/4112013214252StatsOnSexualAssault.jpg
https://collegestats.org/resources/sexual-assault-prevention/
http://endrapeoncampus.org/eroc-blog/2016/1/26/bjs-campus-climate-survey-key-highlights
http://www.quchronicle.com/2016/11/university-explains-sexual-assault-procedures/
http://mavaw.org/facts-and-stats/
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/sexual-assault-statistics_us_58e24c14e4b0c777f788d24f

 

For all things to be equal, 1 in 6 men must be accused of sexual assault.  Now go find me that stat.

Almost all your articles link to the same study that got debunked a million times. A study with a tiny sample size of self register subjects. That in itself is critized because obiously thouse afected will be more inclined to participate.

The second point that is heavily critized is what they deem sexual assault. They include if a woman regrets it the next day for whatever reason. They include a unwanted sexual advancement even if it lead to nothing. and basicly if the woman "feels" asaulted.

And the last thing this study is heavily criticized is the idea that 95% of victims dont come foward, wich comes out their ass. While yes, its true that some assaults go unreported for the reasons they mentioned, they show no reason at all to asume its 95% unreported. 

So after the real number gets inflated like crazzy by them saying that any little thing that makes a girl unconfortable sexual assault, then they multiply the number by 20 to make up the 95% unreported and then you get your 1 in 5. Wich is total nonsense. 

And this is not by me, this report got riped apart a thousand times by real academics.

Look at this short video from a real academic whos a woman and a feminist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNsJ1DhqQ-s 

 

And finally stop with the straw man. At no point anybody claimed anything about false acusation being the same rate as assaults.



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

SpokenTruth said:
KLAMarine said:

"19. Twitter hashtags that support accused rapists and blame victims."

What if someone like Sherita Dixon Cole is hit with hashtags? Is it also rape culture to falsely accuse an officer with rape and have others believe without a grain of skepticism? People like Shaun King with considerable influence?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSJdb_WZ5uc

I certainly hope so.

You just matched up 1 thing against dozens and are demanding it get treated equally.

I like to think I proposed a number 26.

SpokenTruth said: 

That said, why do you and others presume we don't care about false accusations?

I'm sure you (plural) do but my question is "are false rape accusations a part of rape culture?"

SpokenTruth said: 

Did you read 21?

Yes but not sure how it's relevant...

SpokenTruth said: 

Or did you stop at 19 so you can make your Twitter hashtag reply? 

No.



setsunatenshi said:
Qwark said:

Kind of depends on what rights you give to a foetus. If you see it as a self aware human being with a reactive nervous system you could argue that this fetus should share the same rights as any other human. I agree the male who inpregnated het should not have a say in this. But the legal system definitely should  have a say in this, same goes with Euthanasie. 

The juridical argument is a very solid argument against abortion. Since it does not question what a women should do, but which rights a self aware unborn has. Abortion is in fact killing a human being from 13 weeks and onward since it is actually self aware.

I am pro choice until 13 weeks, but after that period aborting a child is basically murder. From that point you don't kill a few cells which are building towards something, but you are in fact killing something that could be described as an individual.

Nobody should be allowed to kill another self aware human being willingly (even if it is a foetus). Whether or not said person is a woman or not is irrelevant. If a guy causes a woman to misscariage, by an act if violenence hé also should be charged for killing another human being. 

I agree same rights should be given to all humans. So if you take it to the logical conclusion, the woman is able to sustain her life without sucking it out of the potential child. The potential child, on the other hand, is not able to sustain itself without literally leaching life out of the woman that carries it, therefore the right of the woman to self determine what sucks the life out of her body is 100 times out of 100 the most important right to uphold. You literally can't force someone to hurt their own body to sustain another. If that was the case you would make it that a court could order you to donate a kidney if that could save another human's life. No one makes that argument because it's obviously absurd, so how can it be valid for the anti choice crowd? 

 

We don't even need to get to the point that 1 of those beings is actually conscient, thinking and able to make decisions, while the other is literally not existing as a person yet. 

Not voluntarily giving up a kidney and willingly killing a consious human being because its inconvenient are not even remotely the same. As for leaching the life out of someone. You do realise the female body is biologically designed to carry a child. It normally doesn't cause inreparable medical damage to a woman. Unlike abortion which is definitive.

You can't give someone the right to kill another human being once its consious. Unless said person chooses so. If you don't want to raise a child totally fine, plenty of people who. would want to adopt a child. Luckily where I live abortion after 22 weeks is actually forbidden by law. Since even if the woman wants to get rid of it the medical procedure is forbidden to execute by a doctor, unless there are very compelling nefical reasons. Although I guess you could cut it out after that periode and lay it in a couveuse. 

A foetus is an exsisting person just because it is in a womb and you can not see it doesn't mean it is non existant. A consious foetus is a lot more than just a bunch of cell that are building a person. A featus is in fact a developing human being and that person has the right not to be killed. The fact that you would regard a consious festus as a parasite and something that has no value at all, is pretty disturbing if you ask me. 

 



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

eva01beserk said:

Almost all your articles link to the same study that got debunked a million times. A study with a tiny sample size of self register subjects. That in itself is critized because obiously thouse afected will be more inclined to participate.

The second point that is heavily critized is what they deem sexual assault. They include if a woman regrets it the next day for whatever reason. They include a unwanted sexual advancement even if it lead to nothing. and basicly if the woman "feels" asaulted.

And the last thing this study is heavily criticized is the idea that 95% of victims dont come foward, wich comes out their ass. While yes, its true that some assaults go unreported for the reasons they mentioned, they show no reason at all to asume its 95% unreported. 

So after the real number gets inflated like crazzy by them saying that any little thing that makes a girl unconfortable sexual assault, then they multiply the number by 20 to make up the 95% unreported and then you get your 1 in 5. Wich is total nonsense.

If you are curious, the BJS suggests that there were about 325,000 instances of rape or sexual assault in 2016 (including only individuals over 12 in that statistic), with about 20% of those being reported to the police.

While these numbers are clearly less than the NISVS numbers, I'm not really sure if that says much about whether we live in a "rape culture" because the definition of rape culture is vague and subjective. In my personal opinion, those numbers are still high enough that I would consider sexual violence to be a major issue in the United States.