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Forums - Politics Discussion - Should Brett Kavanaugh SCOTUS Nomination Continue?

 

Should Brett Kavanaugh SCOTUS Nomination Continue?

Yes 53 47.32%
 
No 41 36.61%
 
Trump should pick a new canidate 18 16.07%
 
Total:112
thismeintiel said:
Final-Fan said:

You've made this "kill millions" claim several times.  Can you identify what you are basing this claim on? 

Here you go.  Have fun wading through these cesspool quotes.

If that's your evidence, I'd ask you to change your claim to "thousands". 
—There's only one "millions" quote (on person does not equal Democrats in general), and even in that one quote they are merely being "threatened"; not all people whose lives are threatened actually die.  Moreover, he may well have meant "lives" in the sense of "livelihoods" or "my life is ruined".  I am sure that in a few minutes even someone as biased as yourself could come up with equally hyperbolic claims by Republicans against Democrats. 
—That some Democrats claim Kavanaugh's confirmation will likely result in thousands of deaths is very well supported, so I'd have no argument with you about that. 

For the record, the "thousands" claim may or may not be well supported in my eyes.  I would have to know more about how many women died per year due to botched amateur and/or clandestine abortions before it was legalized.  We'd also have to put odds on how likely it would be that Kavanaugh's appointment would actually result in abortion being successfully challenged. 



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wow, considering that VGC is 90% liberal, i'm shocked that the poll is as close as it is.. seems to me that more and more people are waking up to the DemonRATS lying shady tactics.

DemonRATS will stop at nothing to regain power, no matter how deluded their lies are, they are clearly more than happy to destroy any persons reputation, NO MATTER WHAT THE COST.



SpokenTruth said:
No. He proved he cannot uphold the expectations of impartiality to be a SCOTUS justice.

With that logic everybody should be removed.



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Rab said:
Looks as though he lied under oath anyway

"Brett Kavanaugh's classmate says he lied about drinking"
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45710340

That's subjective really. I've drank to the point I couldn't really do much of anything, I wouldn't have been able to hold a drink, I wasn't blacked out though.

You know what's an objective lie though? Saying you're afraid to fly but have a history of flying.



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Ronster316 said:
wow, considering that VGC is 90% liberal, i'm shocked that the poll is as close as it is.. seems to me that more and more people are waking up to the DemonRATS lying shady tactics.

DemonRATS will stop at nothing to regain power, no matter how deluded their lies are, they are clearly more than happy to destroy any persons reputation, NO MATTER WHAT THE COST.

Demon rats, really?  I mean, I remember you being rabid before, but please look in the mirror and ask yourself if you are faithfully doing your civic duty as a voter here. 

But I have to admit, you really got me thinking.  In the console wars I've seen Micro$oft and even $ony, but where's the money-grubbing epithet for Nintendo?  Then it hit me. 

NinYENdo. 

So thanks for that, Ron. 



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Ronster316 said:
wow, considering that VGC is 90% liberal, i'm shocked that the poll is as close as it is.. seems to me that more and more people are waking up to the DemonRATS lying shady tactics.

DemonRATS will stop at nothing to regain power, no matter how deluded their lies are, they are clearly more than happy to destroy any persons reputation, NO MATTER WHAT THE COST.

I mean, that's probably because there are people who care more about the social aspects and implications of a party than the ones revolving around law. Remember, there are people that voted for Trump literally just to trigger "muh feminazis" 



Mr Puggsly said:
Rab said:
Looks as though he lied under oath anyway

"Brett Kavanaugh's classmate says he lied about drinking"
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45710340

That's subjective really. I've drank to the point I couldn't really do much of anything, I wouldn't have been able to hold a drink, I wasn't blacked out though.

You know what's an objective lie though? Saying you're afraid to fly but have a history of flying.

That doesn’t make sense, you can be afraid of something and still do it without lying that you’re afraid of it, but if you had a choice you probably wouldn’t do it

Last edited by Rab - on 02 October 2018

Rêveur said:
sundin13 said:

I don't believe that is an accurate representation of my argument, mostly because I am not stating that he should have to prove his innocence, but instead stating that the arguments for and against should be weighted against each other. This is different than a court system because it places the burden on both individuals instead of on one. As I've stated in other posts, I think this is important because under either "presumption" (presumption of innocence or presumption of guilt), someone is wronged, be it the victim of assault or the victim of a false accusation (and you could argue that "Presumption of innocence" also applies to presuming the accuser is not perjuring themselves). 

Because of that, what should be done in my opinion is that both arguments and both possibilities should be weighed and a determination should be made from that point based on the context in which we are speaking about someone.

I feel like you are attempting to take a neutral stance and be reasonable but it just feels like a cop-out, like a way to avoid having to make a decision, perhaps out of fear of making the wrong one or fear it makes you be on the "wrong" side. I still don't know what you think should be done concretely. You keep talking about some sort of "middle-ground" that is supposedly attainable by giving weight to both sides. Unfortunately, there are only two options - confirm Kavanaugh or drop him. There's no nuanced, middle-ground, or compromise course of action possible.

I can't speak for all those who want to see Kavanaugh confirmed, but in my case, it's not necessarily that I believe Kavanugh and that I believe Ford's a liar. I simply do not see proof of what she is accusing, and as I've said in my past post, I still stand by the principle of the presumption of innocence and the burden of proof being solely on the accuser. In cases where there is no proof going either way, the only course of action I find acceptable is to accord the benefit of the doubt to the accused.

It's not a testimony of belief in one person or lack of belief in another, but simply belief in a principle that irrefutable proof be required to ruin a person and deny him an honor. I guess my last question to you would simply be, of the two opions - confirm or drop - what do you think should be done?

Again, when speaking about the two sides, I am speaking about presumption of innocence vs presumption of guilt. I say we presume neither. Weigh the two sides and determine a likelihood of guilt and use that to determine a statistical score for how qualified an individual is for the job.

I personally believe that the likelihood of guilt (meaning that he either committed sexual assault or perjured himself under oath) is somewhere around 60%, so using the calculations I described earlier, I do not believe he should be confirmed. I think that everyone (meaning all of the senators) should do this to determine where they believe the likelihood of guilt lies and whether they believe that he is adequately qualified taking the two possibilities into account.



Trump should pick someone else but I don't think it would be much of a difference :-p



Proud to be a Californian.

SpokenTruth said:
Why is is that some people will believe that Hillary Clinton ran a child sex ring out of the back of a DC pizza parlor but won't believe a doctor who was sexually assaulted and passed a polygraph test?

Didn't Kavanaugh declined to take the polygraph test as well.  Not only that but it was Kavanaugh himself who stated how important polygraph test are but he declined to take the test.  Of course he reversed his opinion when it when it was his time to be put on the seat.  At least now that the FBI will investigate this matter, he will have his chance to prove his innocence when they hook him up to the test.