Lonely_Dolphin said: DélioPT said:  You know that's not a sufficient response. Why are you being so awkward about this? The whole "not bother talking to one who thinks he's right" excuse falls flat when you continue responding to me. Is it that hard to admit you heard from the minority? It's really not a big deal. xD "And i don't necessarily see big sales being a decisive factor" - Did you forget you said this? I'm certainly never going to forget lel. Additionally, your next line is only the first time this thread where you tried using sales in your reasoning. Can't blame me for not believing you when you say you don't take opinions over sales. "MK8 could outdo the original because the game was clearly hampered by Wii U sales. NSMB U wasn't. In fact, most of it's sales, if i'm not mistaken, come from HW bundles. Unlike MK8." - You say you're not making claims yet that is two right there. We can all clearly see the difference in sales between NSMB2 and NSMBU, and MK8 was also bundled as was every major Wii U game. I noticed you completely dropped the Sunshine point. That's definitely for the best.

I'm not being awkward. I'm just giving you what you ask for.
If you know, why should i bother, right?

In retrospective:

Me: I don't know if those numbers can be achieved, based on perception of game (other reasons, aswell).
You: What are you basing that on?
Me: On everything i heard from then, to today.
You: You just listened to forum goers, the minority.
Me: You are speculating.
You: See? As i said. Forum goers.

Understand why i didn't bother?

"And i don't necessarily see big sales being a decisive factor."

I said it before and i'll say it again: just because a game had big sales, that doesn't mean the success will happen again or even be higher - as you are guessing.
Wii Sports sold the HW. Did Wii Sports Club set the world on fire again? No. Not even by a longshot.

Looking at other examples:

Uncharted Drake collection PS4: 5.54
Uncharted PS3 (average of the 3 games): 6.18 (the third game sold a little better than this)

Elder Scrolls PS4: 3.13
Elder Scrolls PS3: 6.49

Batman: Return to arkham PS4: 0.62
Batman PS3 (average of 2 games): 4.91

All those games sold very well, are still seen as great games. But, did that mean that the port would allow for more or, at least, equal sales? No. In 2 of those 3 cases, the drop was actually quite significant.

I know MK8 was bundled... I said it too.
Thing is, MK8 spent way less time as a bundle and still sold more than NSMB U.

Btw, the claim that i wasn't going to make, was about the success, or lack thereof, of NSMB U Deluxe. And i still stand by what i said: i'm not sure that, taking everything into consideration, the game can reach those 10M you think it might - or will - sell.

DélioPT said:  Looking at other examples: Uncharted Drake collection PS4: 5.54 Uncharted PS3 (average of the 3 games): 6.18 (the third game sold a little better than this) Elder Scrolls PS4: 3.13 Elder Scrolls PS3: 6.49 Batman: Return to arkham PS4: 0.62 Batman PS3 (average of 2 games): 4.91 All those games sold very well, are still seen as great games. But, did that mean that the port would allow for more or, at least, equal sales? No. In 2 of those 3 cases, the drop was actually quite significant.

You are comparing apples to oranges here. Why would you use PS3 to PS4 ports when we have a bunch of examples of Wii U to Switch ports that are doing much better than the original releases?

im buying it without a doubt.

DélioPT said: I'm not being awkward. I'm just giving you what you ask for. If you know, why should i bother, right?

Again you keep responding to my other points I think I'm right about, so why you don't bother in this one instance will never make sense. I mean that's how arguments work, people think one way until proven otherwise. You're just desperately trying to avoid admitting I'm right is all this is. Same deal with dropping Mario Sunshine as if you never brought it up.

We simply can't have an intelligent discussion with this behavior. That plus the rest of your post not addressing much of what I said and going off tangent is a clear sign this needs to be dropped less it drone on forever. The only argument I was interested in be anecdotal minority opinions vs. sales data, was only trying to get through that sales far outweigh opinions. I take it you agree even if you never admit it as you started bringing up sales data in poor attempts to spin it in your favor only after I called you out on it. Now I'll show you how it's actually done and not bother responding to you on this matter again.

zorg1000 said: DélioPT said:    You are comparing apples to oranges here. Why would you use PS3 to PS4 ports when we have a bunch of examples of Wii U to Switch ports that are doing much better than the original releases?

What i was trying to show was that big sales of the original, don't necessarily mean big or bigger sales for the port.
In Batman's case, for example, the difference was quite big!

There will be cases where the port does well or really well, and cases where it doesn't.

Lonely_Dolphin said: DélioPT said: I'm not being awkward. I'm just giving you what you ask for. If you know, why should i bother, right? Again you keep responding to my other points I think I'm right about, so why you don't bother in this one instance will never make sense. I mean that's how arguments work, people think one way until proven otherwise. You're just desperately trying to avoid admitting I'm right is all this is. Same deal with dropping Mario Sunshine as if you never brought it up. We simply can't have an intelligent discussion with this behavior. That plus the rest of your post not addressing much of what I said and going off tangent is a clear sign this needs to be dropped less it drone on forever. The only argument I was interested in be anecdotal minority opinions vs. sales data, was only trying to get through that sales far outweigh opinions. I take it you agree even if you never admit it as you started bringing up sales data in poor attempts to spin it in your favor only after I called you out on it. Now I'll show you how it's actually done and not bother responding to you on this matter again.

"why you don't bother in this one instance will never make sense"
I already explained why in the me/you segment in my previous post. But i'll explain again: you did not care to know, you assumed you knew. And even though i tried, twice at least, saying you were speculating, you kept the same attitude.

You know what's funny?
You say i'm desperately trying to avoid admitting something, yet you are the one who doesn't even admit the possibility of being wrong. 

"anecdotal minority opinions vs. sales data, was only trying to get through that sales far outweigh opinions"
Something i never even tried to refute. 
If i had made any claim, you'd be right to say that. But i didn't: i said that, taking everything into consideration, i wasn't sure. Period. That was all i said.
You were the one who saw it as me trying to say that NSMB U didn't have a good "reputation", therefore, it won't sell 10M.

Thank you for the conversation!

DevilRising said: Woulda been pretty clutch of them to, you know, just make a NEW NSMB. But hey, why do that when they can re-release more old games?

I agree...

I understand why they're porting NSMBU, but I can't pretend I'm not disappointed not to be getting a new one, especially when the first two NSMB games are among my favorite games from their respective platforms...

DevilRising said: Woulda been pretty clutch of them to, you know, just make a NEW NSMB. But hey, why do that when they can re-release more old games?

What makes you think they're not?  Doesn't seem like they're putting a lot of resources into this port.  It's going to sell like crazy and in the meantime they can be working on the next game in the series.  There are (and will be) so many Switch owners that didn't buy a WiiU.  I'd be more worried if this was a super deluxe edition with a load of new content.  That would definitely mean that we aren't getting a new 2D Mario sequel anytime soon.

In response to the question...certainly this can sell 10 million.  Especially because a Mario Maker hasn't released or been announced yet. 

DélioPT said: zorg1000 said: You are comparing apples to oranges here. Why would you use PS3 to PS4 ports when we have a bunch of examples of Wii U to Switch ports that are doing much better than the original releases? What i was trying to show was that big sales of the original, don't necessarily mean big or bigger sales for the port. In Batman's case, for example, the difference was quite big! There will be cases where the port does well or really well, and cases where it doesn't.

Like I said, apples to oranges.

You are comparing games like Skyrim & Batman Arkham which were on PS3/360/PC so something like an install base over 200 million vs a game on a 13 million install base.

The sales potential of games like Skyrim & Batman were not limited in any significant way by the platforms they released on so it makes sense for ports of them to sell a fraction of the original release.

This is not the same for Wii U ports, those games did not sell to their full potential because they were on a failed platform and is why we are seeing basically every Wii U port on Switch sell better than the original release.

NSMBU Deluxe might not hit 10 million but I feel pretty positive that it will outsell the Wii U version.

zorg1000 said: DélioPT said: What i was trying to show was that big sales of the original, don't necessarily mean big or bigger sales for the port. In Batman's case, for example, the difference was quite big! There will be cases where the port does well or really well, and cases where it doesn't. Like I said, apples to oranges. You are comparing games like Skyrim & Batman Arkham which were on PS3/360/PC so something like an install base over 200 million vs a game on a 13 million install base. The sales potential of games like Skyrim & Batman were not limited in any significant way by the platforms they released on so it makes sense for ports of them to sell a fraction of the original release. This is not the same for Wii U ports, those games did not sell to their full potential because they were on a failed platform and is why we are seeing basically every Wii U port on Switch sell better than the original release. NSMBU Deluxe might not hit 10 million but I feel pretty positive that it will outsell the Wii U version.

It's true that those games weren't limited by HW sales, but that doesn't mean they couldn't at least repeat those numbers.
That didn't happen because, despite their appeal, they couldn't muster enough of it, to repeat the feat or even surpass it. And we are talking about games that had a really good word of mouth and received a lot of praise.

In regard to NSMB U, i don't really see it as being held back by HW sales.
If that was case, then why didn't it sell like MK8 or vice versa?

For example: SSB, a game that was never a match for the sales potential of the NSMB series, and, which came out in 2014, managed to almost sell as much as NSMB U. Despite the latter having two more years in the market.

I'm open to a surprise and the game outselling the original. But, is it "proven" that the game will clearly outsell the original because it was held back on Wii U? I don't see a reason to be so certain of that.

DélioPT said: zorg1000 said: Like I said, apples to oranges. You are comparing games like Skyrim & Batman Arkham which were on PS3/360/PC so something like an install base over 200 million vs a game on a 13 million install base. The sales potential of games like Skyrim & Batman were not limited in any significant way by the platforms they released on so it makes sense for ports of them to sell a fraction of the original release. This is not the same for Wii U ports, those games did not sell to their full potential because they were on a failed platform and is why we are seeing basically every Wii U port on Switch sell better than the original release. NSMBU Deluxe might not hit 10 million but I feel pretty positive that it will outsell the Wii U version. It's true that those games weren't limited by HW sales, but that doesn't mean they couldn't at least repeat those numbers. That didn't happen because, despite their appeal, they couldn't muster enough of it, to repeat the feat or even surpass it. And we are talking about games that had a really good word of mouth and received a lot of praise. In regard to NSMB U, i don't really see it as being held back by HW sales. If that was case, then why didn't it sell like MK8 or vice versa? For example: SSB, a game that was never a match for the sales potential of the NSMB series, and, which came out in 2014, managed to almost sell as much as NSMB U. Despite the latter having two more years in the market. I'm open to a surprise and the game outselling the original. But, is it "proven" that the game will clearly outsell the original because it was held back on Wii U? I don't see a reason to be so certain of that.

It's very rare that late ports of successful games on successful platforms match the initial release. Skyrim, Batman Arkham or almost any previous gen port/remaster (GTAV is an anomaly) were never going to sell as much on PS4/XBO as they did on PS3/360. Do you know why? Almost everybody who was interested in them already played them.

You are using a logical fallacy, just because it didnt sell as much as MK8 (best selling game on the console) does not mean it wasnt held back. Donkey Kong sold like 1/8th the amount of MK8 on Wii U and it's pretty clear it was held back considering that the Switch version outsold the Wii U version's lifetime sales in just 2 months while costing more.

Why does it matter that it released later? They both had the same ~13.5 million people to sell to. One released earlier, the other released when the install base was higher, they cancel out.

Obviously there is no way of knowing until it releases and we see the sales but it's a pretty safe bet, like I said already pretty much every Wii U port on Switch has either already outsold the original or on track to do so which gives little reason to expect a popular IP lke 2D Mario to not do the same.