By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Politics Discussion - An open letter to the black community of VGC

PSintend0 on 12 September 2018

Roll and many other assume or assumed by default that we here are white males, but I find that silly. I have always thought of you people through your name and mostly through your avatar pics. Maybe I don´t just have any imagination :/
But still its great that you Anna Faris have learned something, and did you used to be Kim Possible. That must have been just a role you played :P
Btw I really liked all the scary movies that you were in and that Smiley Face movie was also great.



Around the Network
Rafie on 13 September 2018

You know what. Rol I thought you were black! Seriously I did. Well the pic from my avatar is actually me. So I'm black as well. With some Samoan to mix. Anyway, that was an interesting read. Didn't even know you were Austrian. The surprises keep coming.



PSN ID- RayCrocheron82

XBL Gamertag- RAFIE82

NNID- RAFIE82/ Friend Code: SW-6006-2580-8237

YouTube- Rafie Crocheron

CosmicSex on 13 September 2018
PSintend0 said:
CosmicSex said:
I'm black and I can tell you that there is no such thing as "how black people act". We are people just like everyone is people and are as varied as any other group of people out there. Thats one of the coolest things about being black is that you can be or act however you want. Black people are more accepting of others. We permeate all cultures. We don't all get along. We are smart. We study all different subjects. We have the biggest Ds (lol). We are awesome students. We are awesome athletes. We are competitive. We work very hard. We can be lazy. We have the best sex. We love to dance. We don't bake as fast in the sun. We can be summon aggression on a level you can only dream of. We run the spectrum from gangster to President. Some of us have issues. Some of us struggle but we are in general repulsed by ignorance. Being black is awesome! Yes there is historical hardships and reasons to be upset with being black (like not having any ancestry if you are American) but all in all I wouldn't want to be anything other than what I am.

Are you being serious or joking? First you say that there is no such thing as "how black people act" and that black people are just like everyone else, but then you start to list those things like "black people are more accepting of others".

Black people have darker skin. Thats all that there really should be. Skin color is skin color. Nothing more, nothing less.

Problem is not that people see that someone has darker skin, but all of the generalizations that they make based on that. People should be more vary of generalizations directed at things like skin color,gender, amount they play games, eye color, religion, nationality or sexual orientation. Even if there statistically some truth in some of the generalizations, people are still individuals and statistically differences are mostly between individuals and not between groups.

Treating  people the same despite of their sexual orientation or gender is easier than treating people with different skin colors or religions the same. The effects of discrimination based on skin color/religion are passed down and that makes it more difficult. I don´t know how for example US can solve that problem.

'How Black People Act' was a response to the OP saying that he used to have a negative connotation about how black people acted.   My list was meant to show the diversity in perspective of black folks.  There is no one way that we act (This can obviously be applied to any people with any color skin).   

How much context do I need to provide to satisfy you.  Nothing I said was wrong.  I can't stop you from perceiving me or my words in a negative light regardless of my intentions.  The key to overcoming hatred (color, sex, religion) is the same thing as getting over fear of one another.  Period.  And simple.  A common tactic of those seeking power is to insight fear in a group to break it up.  Once people realize what is happening to them they can begin to combat it.  Most black people that I know understand what racial discrimination feels like so we are more accepting of people in general.  We don't want to perpetuate the same hurt that is projected at us.  Its mind control too.  When you let people tell you how to think and who to hate, it should immediately trigger suspicion.  



GhaudePhaede010 on 13 September 2018
John2290 said:
Pemalite said:

Morgan Freeman says it best.
Interviewer: "How are we going to get rid of Racism?"
Morgan Freeman: "Stop talking about it!"

It's only an issue because people make it to be an issue... If people stopped bringing up race entirely, stopped seeing race and see the individuals themselves, all the issues disappear.

I think VGC strives to be as equal-opportunity as possible regardless of political conviction, race, gender, sexuality, religion... You name it. And that is fantastic, but people aren't just those descriptors, they are people first.

I use this logic, try to spread it but it always falls flat. Not sure if it was Morgan Freeman who imparted it on me but man did he word that brilliantly and it comes off as wise beyond, even his years then. It's almost like it was a script written by a Tibetan monk. I often forget he is intelligent and godly of camera as he is on it. 

Of course it falls flat. It fails under scrutiny. If I said, "How do I plan to get rid of pedophilia? Stop talking about it" you would think I was outright batshit insane. And I would be. Ignoring an issue does not make it disappear. The hell is wrong with people that think like that? And I totes love Morgan Freeman's work but that line of thinking is absolutely insane and would still have American blacks stuck in slavery.



01000110 01101111 01110010 00100000 01001001 01111001 01101111 01101100 01100001 01101000 00100001 00100000 01000110 01101111 01110010 00100000 01000101 01110100 01100101 01110010 01101110 01101001 01110100 01111001 00100001 00100000

Pemalite on 13 September 2018
RolStoppable said:
Pemalite said:

Why, don't you have a rebuttal?

No, it's not that. My rebuttal is actually so good that I want to make sure that you are fully ready for it.

I was born ready.

RolStoppable said:

What's your opinion on the bolded portion?

There is a time and place for everything.
If you make a racial joke in poor taste... Then you deserve ridicule.

GhaudePhaede010 said:

Of course it falls flat. It fails under scrutiny. If I said, "How do I plan to get rid of pedophilia? Stop talking about it" you would think I was outright batshit insane.

Wow. Just wow. Did you really just conflate someones skin pigmentation, something that can't be helped, isn't behavioral to Pedophilia?


GhaudePhaede010 said:

And I would be. Ignoring an issue does not make it disappear. The hell is wrong with people that think like that? And I totes love Morgan Freeman's work but that line of thinking is absolutely insane and would still have American blacks stuck in slavery.

You are missing the key message that Morgan Freeman is trying to convey.
There is only an issue BECAUSE people make it to be an issue, on both sides. - If everyone grew up and stopped nit picking, there wouldn't be a problem, everyone would be treated equally.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Around the Network
Pemalite on 14 September 2018
RolStoppable said:
Pemalite said:

I was born ready.

There is a time and place for everything.
If you make a racial joke in poor taste... Then you deserve ridicule.

You have explicitly agreed to pursue the logical end.

The logical end of assuming and jokes takes us here: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8882026
Reasoning: Trolling (No need for such rhetoric in that thread.

This puts the stance you have taken in this thread to the test. You and the mod team moderated a joke because of a series of assumptions. The ban note doesn't recognize my post as a joke despite how over the top the post is. You don't know anything about the behavior in the NFL thread and how people interact with each other. You don't know how people have gotten along in sports threads on this website in general. You don't know the relationships between the users in the NFL thread. You have nothing but assumptions. As you say in the initial quote:

Essentially, you have brought in an argument from another thread into this one. Way to stay on topic.

But okay, I'll bite.

Whether your post was a joke or not is ultimately irrelevant, it was in poor taste.
Not only that... But the onus is on you to provide appropriate context so that your post isn't misconstrued by the mod team or other users, in short... It was your own fault and I stand by the moderation.

RolStoppable said:
There wouldn't be an issue if people weren't making a big song and dance about it.

You and the mod team made it an issue and nobody else; I know how my post made it into mod chat. Nobody in the NFL thread was offended - save for the sleepy moderator who by his own admission hadn't even properly read my post, but at the time thought he would do the right thing by bringing awareness to the rest of the mod team before he logged out himself - and if you think MTZehvor's response to my joke is some kind of proof that he was offended, then that's yet another wrong assumption due to your team's lack of awareness of how we have talked to each other in the NFL thread in all those years. In past years we didn't have any problems when certain NFL teams were refered to as communists or nazis because everyone in the thread understood that such things still belonged to banter and normal rivalry talk between sports fans. We all got along well in all those years, regardless of our nationality, race and team preference, and then comes the mod team and starts to moderate in a sports thread because they want to be stricter on hate speech or whatever, suddenly making an issue where there never was one.

I know that I am wading in a gray zone here. I shouldn't publicly contest a moderation, but this one here is of utmost relevance to the topic at hand. What comes out of this determines if the mod team's actions match their words or if it's all just empty talk because what is being said sounds morally correct and therefore good. I had asked for my moderation to be overturned because my post was a blatant joke and in a sports thread no less, but that request has not been granted. I was fully aware that any further form of private contact with the mod team would have fallen on deaf ears, so that's why this is being done public. I was left with no other choice and my best bet was to demonstrate how well white and black people get along on this website in general, and how black people think of me in particular. This thread right here shows that the community of VGC is more mature than the mod team seems to want to give it credit for. This thread shows that black people can recognize a joke; I mean, I called black people rude, selfish, ignorant, arrogant and stupid in the original post, and how many of them were offended?

 


To be honest... I don't care for your drama. And you would be unwise in thinking I do care for it.

RolStoppable said:

Overturning a wrong call doesn't make a mod team weak, rather it shows that a mod team is willing to moderate in the spirit of the community.

I agree. And we do it damn often.

RolStoppable said:

The correct context is right vs. wrong, and if there was a wrong call made, the refs get respected when they overturn it and it's for the best of the sport as a whole. Likewise, it's better for a community to know that they have a mod team who is willing to sincerely review a contested moderation and overturn wrong calls entirely. Of course the VGC mod team holds the power to do what they want, but if there's no sincere interest to serve this community, then don't be surprised if you don't get respected and discomfort with the mod team grows.

No. There wasn't a wrong call made. The only wrong call was probably the ban length, but that was rectified pretty quickly anyway.
The wrong call being made here... Is you thinking you are the victim.

We are all volunteers, we all deliberate on issues, we are all human beings... Yes because of that we will screw up... But you can bet we will recognize that, learn from it and take steps to try and not make the same mistake next time.
But I am 100% confident the appropriate course of action was taken... So you need to come to terms with that and move on.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

GhaudePhaede010 on 14 September 2018
John2290 said:
GhaudePhaede010 said:

Of course it falls flat. It fails under scrutiny. If I said, "How do I plan to get rid of pedophilia? Stop talking about it" you would think I was outright batshit insane. And I would be. Ignoring an issue does not make it disappear. The hell is wrong with people that think like that? And I totes love Morgan Freeman's work but that line of thinking is absolutely insane and would still have American blacks stuck in slavery.

You fail to understand the differnce between a racist and racism. Racism is a learned behavour, a racist is a product of that racism. It's not the 19th century anymore nor is it the 60's, there has been two generations if not three in the western world that have been brought up for the most part without racist beliefs been bestowed upon them, bringing it all back to the forefront of everyones mind, the childern especially only brings a new era of racism for the new generations and Morgan Freeman, being black and growing up in the last battlefeild of the civil rights movement which was one of the most racist states in the US might know a tad more on the subject than I or you do with his first hand experience of the last 70 or 80 years, seeing the cultural shift through the young generations. His point would work and has worked since the 70's onward but these days everything is about race, everyones talking about it and virtuing online while the up coming generation looks on and learns from it. 

Also, Pedophilla is not a learned behaviour, it's a mental illness. I know you're trying to make a point but damn lad, that's one hell of a stretch. 

OK. I cannot rebuttal both you and Pemalite since you both have conflicting positions on pedophilia. However, what I can say to you is that racism is a behavior, just like pedophilia. Me not talking about it does not stop the next person from acting on their own individual actions - actions that can cause damage to myself or my children. And since my silence will do nothing to stop the spread of racism, all I am doing is being a good man that does nothing at all to stop bad things by pleading ignorance. Actually, I think that sums up both your arguments quite nicely. Wait...

 

Pemalite, I am not equating skin color to pedophilia. I am equating the behavior of racism to the behavior of pedophilia. Now, if you think that example is too extreme, please, read the rest of my post.

 

However, if you think the example is too extreme, substitute pedophilia with any crime. How do I plan to stop murder? Stop talking about it. How do I plan to stop theft? Stop talking about it. This rhetoric does not work because all it does is leave you ignorant to the world around you and in case you did not know, racism, while a relatively new concept for humans, did start somewhere. It was not expressly taught in the beginning. It was not a, "learned" behavior when it started. It was not passed down on its inception. People being awful to other people for any excuse is not going away. And ignoring that is not remotely the solution. Not in the least. I cannot think of one example of, "ignore the major social issue" and it actually went away. I cannot think of any example of, "ignore the behavior of a large group of people" actually making that stop. I guess we should all not talk about rape. That will make it go away (seeing as rape is not a mental illness, maybe that form of sexual assault fits this example setting better). Hell, why have a judicial system at all? We should just ignore it all. The rhetoric does not stand to logical scrutiny.

 

I believe an active and proactive confrontation is always the best way. When I have a problem within my relationship, the best result always comes from confronting it while acting like it does not exist will get me nowhere as far as progress is concerned. This does not mean violently assault (or worse) is necessary, but educating people means, by its nature, talking about these things. Not talking about them will do nothing at all to stop them from occurring. It actually can lead to comfort from the perpetrators and complacency or apathy from victims and the neutral people that could help.

Last edited by GhaudePhaede010 - on 14 September 2018

01000110 01101111 01110010 00100000 01001001 01111001 01101111 01101100 01100001 01101000 00100001 00100000 01000110 01101111 01110010 00100000 01000101 01110100 01100101 01110010 01101110 01101001 01110100 01111001 00100001 00100000

Pemalite on 14 September 2018
RolStoppable said:

1. I did provide appropriate context. If the mod team can't recognize a post as a joke when it ends with *fistbump*, then there's not much more I can do, except for ending all of my posts that contain a joke with a disclaimer that they are a joke along with a comprehensive explanation for all facets of the joke I was making.

Just because it is a joke, doesn't mean it wasn't in poor taste and not deserving of moderation.
There is a time and place for everything... You deserved your moderation, deal with it.

RolStoppable said:

2. Yes, it was obvious that you don't care about the community in the NFL thread; that's why this is an issue in the first place. I am shocked by how dismissive you are about that crucial part of my post, because you are essentially saying that you don't care about the people here.

That is a false assertion on your behalf that isn't backed up by real world evidence.
I never once said I do not care about the people here, you said that. - I simply don't care for your Drama, there is a massive difference.

I volunteer my time and effort (I don't have to) to try and make this place a less toxic place, your post was toxic, there was no appropriate context, it was in poor taste and I standby the moderation. - The only mistake made was the moderation length and I apologize for that.

So again, you need to realize your mistake and move on.

RolStoppable said:

3. This is a claim that I don't believe without evidence. Cite some examples.

You had your ban shortened from 3 days to 1.
Here is another example: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8885103


RolStoppable said:

4. This is more or less a continuation of point 2, you willfully ignore the facts of this particular case to justify your original call. You are fine with banning people for a joke and you are conveying that you would do it again.

In closing, I got my answers. I don't demand anything more.

You are making something out of nothing. - There are no facts, you are just being dramatic.

Just because something is a joke, doesn't mean it is not in poor taste and not worthy of moderation, you need to understand that, otherwise you will likely face similar consequences for similar actions in the future if you are unable to learn from your mistakes.

Either way, this discussion ends here as it is off topic, if you want to discuss it farther, feel free to message me directly.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite on 14 September 2018
RolStoppable said:
Pemalite said:

(...)

Either way, this discussion ends here as it is off topic, if you want to discuss it farther, feel free to message me directly.

Just for your information, the discussion we had wasn't off topic, so that can't be used as a reason to demand an end to it. The discussion we had is one branch of the original post of this thread, so it was on topic.

The thread was about you writing an open letter to the black community... Not a whinge about your fair moderation.

So yes, keep it on topic.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Immersiveunreality on 22 September 2018

Yes xenophobia, fear of people that look different have a different culture and just fear of the unknown is something totally different than racism. Racism borders to or IS hate while xenophobia acts more as an survivalinstinct .
But offcourse with all the information available you could call people ignorant or lazy for being it.